angus99
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Just noticed you’re in Chattanooga. Let me know if you’d like to see what stabilizers in a Defever 44 look like.
Stabilizers?
- Thread starter rjm911
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Just noticed you’re in Chattanooga. Let me know if you’d like to see what stabilizers in a Defever 44 look like.
dhays
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I don't know much about stabilizing systems. I wonder about the newer small gyro systems. It seems to me that they might be simpler with fewer potential problems as well as be effective at lower speeds. Also few holes in the boat. Of course a catastrophic failure would likely be unpleasant....
Well there are not so many on the market after recently shopping I saw very few.
So I don't think you look for a boat based on having stabilizers, they are secondary item.
ben2go
Guru
A little spendy up front but maintenance is fairly easy and not very expensive when a line or winch needs to be repaired/replaced.
I plan on a steadying sail while I do the loop. It's the cheapest easiest solution for me and my initial Great Loop plans. Then I may consider paravanes for the Inside Passage.
sunchaser
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Our Wesmars have been trouble free since the boat was new. No unusual maintenance or costs. The difference without them on in big seas is remarkable.
As mentioned earlier, a well set up unit will be based upon a hydraulic PTO. I know some whose stabilizer cooling system is improperly designed and suffer from periodic heat shutdowns.
I’d never have a trawler without them. Now we get into the definition of trawler, hull design, initial boat purchase budget and waters traveled. Not common on many popular boats like ATs or NTs, the reason being hull design. Once into DeFevers, Nordhavns, Krogens or FPBs the benefits are proven and nearly universal.
Last but not least, the cruise ship industry would likely not exist if stabilizers were not used. No better testament than the hundreds of thousands of WW II troops who crossed the oceans.
I can definitely tell you my wife and our guests have voted on my stabilizer switch off test,. The Pacific swells are a great proving ground. My pocket book has not unduly suffered either.
As mentioned earlier, a well set up unit will be based upon a hydraulic PTO. I know some whose stabilizer cooling system is improperly designed and suffer from periodic heat shutdowns.
I’d never have a trawler without them. Now we get into the definition of trawler, hull design, initial boat purchase budget and waters traveled. Not common on many popular boats like ATs or NTs, the reason being hull design. Once into DeFevers, Nordhavns, Krogens or FPBs the benefits are proven and nearly universal.
Last but not least, the cruise ship industry would likely not exist if stabilizers were not used. No better testament than the hundreds of thousands of WW II troops who crossed the oceans.
I can definitely tell you my wife and our guests have voted on my stabilizer switch off test,. The Pacific swells are a great proving ground. My pocket book has not unduly suffered either.
Snapdragon III
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Stabilizers were not really even on my wish list, but the boat I fell in love with came with outriggers and birds. After using them I would never consider another trawler without some form of stabilization. They are a hassle to deploy and bring in, but they make a big enough difference that I use them almost every time we go out. I even use them most of the time in the summer when there is no wind, just to cut down being sloshed around in other boats wakes.
BrisHamish
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We installed active fins (Naiad 252s) on our GB46 about two years ago now, and have been extremely pleased with the results.
We find the boat is now much more 'approachable' in conditions which may not be perfect. In other words, previously we might not have used the boat if it was windy or a big(er) swell running such as to make the ride uncomfortable, whereas now we are much more likely to use it.
So the boat had had a lot more use, including more offshore use, since we have had the fins.
The ride improvement given by the fins is remarkable.
As far as the brand/reliability of Naiad goes, so far no problems whatsoever. Its been very easy to use and look after.
Hamish.
We find the boat is now much more 'approachable' in conditions which may not be perfect. In other words, previously we might not have used the boat if it was windy or a big(er) swell running such as to make the ride uncomfortable, whereas now we are much more likely to use it.
So the boat had had a lot more use, including more offshore use, since we have had the fins.
The ride improvement given by the fins is remarkable.
As far as the brand/reliability of Naiad goes, so far no problems whatsoever. Its been very easy to use and look after.
Hamish.
Portage_Bay
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Three years ago I looked into those for both out fitting a new build and retro-fit. At that time they were very EXPENSIVE and consumed a lot of power. Given the way they work, how they're tied into the boat's structure, the space and location required and power required I'm skeptical they will make a good retro-fit. If you've got the bank for new build I think they're avery attractive option.
I completely agree that stabilization (of some form) are critical for a powerboat cruiser. However for me it is equally or more important that the boat be stabilized at anchor as well.
The best solution on the market is likely the gyro, but when I priced it for a heavy, new build it came out to $100k, so I'm still waiting for the Chinese to make cheap knock-offs and sell them at Harbor Freight Tools
The best solution on the market is likely the gyro, but when I priced it for a heavy, new build it came out to $100k, so I'm still waiting for the Chinese to make cheap knock-offs and sell them at Harbor Freight Tools
ben2go
Guru
+1I completely agree that stabilization (of some form) are critical for a powerboat cruiser. However for me it is equally or more important that the boat be stabilized at anchor as well.
The best solution on the market is likely the gyro, but when I priced it for a heavy, new build it came out to $100k, so I'm still waiting for the Chinese to make cheap knock-offs and sell them at Harbor Freight Tools
cardude01
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I had a steadying sail installed and it has worked well on well on two Bahamas trips so far. But to be effective it needs to be big enough— mine is a main and a jib totaling about 580 square feet for a not very big 23000 pound boat. So for me that entailed installing 8 chainplates in the hull, building up a mast step and installing a 40’ mast, then all the rigging. I didn’t do it, had Mack Sails in Florida do it, but it wasn’t cheap and was def not a DIY project IMO. My project with the expensive electric winch, self tending jib and in-mast furling mainsail, all lines run back to the cockpit, all new components, etc. drove up my cost, but I wanted extreme ease of use. Could have been installed for maybe $25k for more of a bare bones version probably.
Also, for a steady sail to work well I think you need more of a rounded, full displacement hull so that limits the boat applications.
If your boat is able to accept a paravane rig (mine really was not without making it look ridiculous) that seems to be the cheapest method.
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So it seems that steadying sails are only really effective when they to the size of a motorsailer, which might not be acceptable to many/most owners.
Reading this whole thread I think the most practical and affordable way to stabilize, when starting from scratch, would be the rolling chocks - passive, minor drag, not too expensive to retrofit and moderately effective. There was another thread on these recently with more info and photos of typical installs.
Reading this whole thread I think the most practical and affordable way to stabilize, when starting from scratch, would be the rolling chocks - passive, minor drag, not too expensive to retrofit and moderately effective. There was another thread on these recently with more info and photos of typical installs.
South of Heaven
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Does the extra drag of paravanes and underwater fins affect fuel economy greatly? Or not so much?
I like the idea of a gyro stabilizer but it must use a lot of energy.
I like the idea of a gyro stabilizer but it must use a lot of energy.
dhays
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I think the key there is “moderately” effective. I think that might be generous. I’m very interested in putting rolling chocks on my boat as several other NP 43 owners have done it with good results. I think they may make moderately uncomfortable seas less uncomfortable. For me, that would be worth the cost to do it.
Our decision satbilizers yes or no and if yes which stabilizers has fallen.
After looking at all systems, active or passive, a DMS Magnus Master Rotor System will be installed in our Selene 40 in August.
https://www.dmsholland.com/en/stabilizers/magnusmaster-2/
After looking at all systems, active or passive, a DMS Magnus Master Rotor System will be installed in our Selene 40 in August.
https://www.dmsholland.com/en/stabilizers/magnusmaster-2/
AusCan
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I have both rolling chocks and a steadying sail. My round bilge certainly needs stabilization in anything but flat water. The rolling chocks on their own don't do enough for me in anything more than a 3 foot beam sea.
With the steadying sails up in a 20-30 knot wind even 6-8 foot seas can be relatively comfortable. I have 400 square feet of sail area on my 14000 pound boat.
Small sails do need a fair amount of wind to be effective, but we get no shortage of wind around here.
The bonus value is no generator required, and they get you home if your engine fails.
With the steadying sails up in a 20-30 knot wind even 6-8 foot seas can be relatively comfortable. I have 400 square feet of sail area on my 14000 pound boat.
Small sails do need a fair amount of wind to be effective, but we get no shortage of wind around here.
The bonus value is no generator required, and they get you home if your engine fails.
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tiltrider1
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Throwing birds in the water might be cheap but doesn’t qualify as easy. Easy is pushing the on button on the dash.
sunchaser
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I believe the other and most popular stabilizer option for newer vessels is to go with active.
As an aside, we do not like birds as they present safety issues and increase the vessels traveling footprint. In the last 15 years the number of new builds for popular models requesting birds over active is probably nil.
Can’t wait to see a Fleming with birds.?
Stabilization
Having owned two FD N40's one with Trac and one with Westmar stabilzers, time cruising aboard a N46 without stabilzers I would vote stabilzers are a must have for these hull designs. That being said a lot of factors go into that statement including their FD hull design and slower speeds. Our N35 semi-displacement hull which offered speeds up to 9-10 knots was a little small and didn't require stabilzers for its intended use. Before we built our Helmsman 38 with what I call a modified full displacement hull (7-9 Knot) I spoke with former N40 and N46 owners who now owned a H38 in the PNW and had strong opinions the boat didn't require stabilizers for its intended use. Not crossing oceans but some serious coastal cruising. Wanting a simpler boat we elected to not to install stabilizers and bet on hull design with slighter more speed to keep things comfortable for our planned ICW future plans. Having used the boat for about two years in southern California with its common swells of different periods has confirmed (for the most part) we made the right decision. We are cautious boaters when it come to weather and selective when we go outside just as we were with our N40's. Both our Nordhavns and Helmsman can handle rougher water than we want to be in so not having stabilizers was / is the right decision for us. The H38 has a very great hull design and one reason we selected the boat. We never experienced any maintenance issues with either brand we had on the N40's but Trac would likely be our preference if we built another larger boat and felt we needed stabilizers. All depends on how we plan to use the boat.
John
Having owned two FD N40's one with Trac and one with Westmar stabilzers, time cruising aboard a N46 without stabilzers I would vote stabilzers are a must have for these hull designs. That being said a lot of factors go into that statement including their FD hull design and slower speeds. Our N35 semi-displacement hull which offered speeds up to 9-10 knots was a little small and didn't require stabilzers for its intended use. Before we built our Helmsman 38 with what I call a modified full displacement hull (7-9 Knot) I spoke with former N40 and N46 owners who now owned a H38 in the PNW and had strong opinions the boat didn't require stabilizers for its intended use. Not crossing oceans but some serious coastal cruising. Wanting a simpler boat we elected to not to install stabilizers and bet on hull design with slighter more speed to keep things comfortable for our planned ICW future plans. Having used the boat for about two years in southern California with its common swells of different periods has confirmed (for the most part) we made the right decision. We are cautious boaters when it come to weather and selective when we go outside just as we were with our N40's. Both our Nordhavns and Helmsman can handle rougher water than we want to be in so not having stabilizers was / is the right decision for us. The H38 has a very great hull design and one reason we selected the boat. We never experienced any maintenance issues with either brand we had on the N40's but Trac would likely be our preference if we built another larger boat and felt we needed stabilizers. All depends on how we plan to use the boat.
John
Bud
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I have niaid stailizers that came with the boat and I love them. They work good and maint is mostly seals. We just went on a 420 mile 1 week trip from the florida keys to Atlantis, Paradise Island, Bahamas and back. (My wife and I both have to work Monday) The stabilizers allowed us to be less influenced by the wind therefore stay on schedule.
That being said I doubt I would have been able to justify spending the money to put a new stabilizing system in, if my boat did not come with it.
Bud
That being said I doubt I would have been able to justify spending the money to put a new stabilizing system in, if my boat did not come with it.
Bud
Simi 60
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I think that's the whole idea, drag slows roll like baffles in a fuel or flume tank.
The braces would add rigidity and spread load compared to the standard type of rolling chocks that are usually only an inch or even less thick.
Benthic2
Guru
I think the analysis so far is missing something. The OP's question is "are stabilzers good" and the obvious answer is yes. They would not be so popular and prevalent, otherwise.
More insightful answers might come a a more pointed analytical process.
Question #1: First, decide what your goal is from the stabilizers. Is it safety, comfort, more boat-able days, or something else. Lets call this answer "Y"
Question #2 What do they cost ? Compare target boats with and without stabilizers to get a ballpark idea of what they cost. Its important to look at "target" boats because everyone is looking at different boats regarding age, size, price and use. Obviously if you are buying a new boat the cost for stablized vs non stablized will be higher than if you are buying a 20 year old boat. This answer is also different for someone who is looking to buy a boat vs someone who is thinking of retrofitting an existing boat. Every decision is a compromise, so cost MUST be a factor. We'll call this "X"
Then we rephrase the question as:
What's the best way to spend X dollars to get more Y ?
Perhaps you can buy a 45' boat without stabilizers for the same price as a 40' boat with stablizers. That extra 5 feet can give you more comfort at the dock, as well as seaworthiness underway.
Perhas you could buy a 16' skiff to boat around inside the harbor and the backwaters on days its too rough to go beyond the breakwater to increase your "boat-able days"
I guess my point is that this answer is not universal. Different boats, and different boating styles will lead to different answers.
More insightful answers might come a a more pointed analytical process.
Question #1: First, decide what your goal is from the stabilizers. Is it safety, comfort, more boat-able days, or something else. Lets call this answer "Y"
Question #2 What do they cost ? Compare target boats with and without stabilizers to get a ballpark idea of what they cost. Its important to look at "target" boats because everyone is looking at different boats regarding age, size, price and use. Obviously if you are buying a new boat the cost for stablized vs non stablized will be higher than if you are buying a 20 year old boat. This answer is also different for someone who is looking to buy a boat vs someone who is thinking of retrofitting an existing boat. Every decision is a compromise, so cost MUST be a factor. We'll call this "X"
Then we rephrase the question as:
What's the best way to spend X dollars to get more Y ?
Perhaps you can buy a 45' boat without stabilizers for the same price as a 40' boat with stablizers. That extra 5 feet can give you more comfort at the dock, as well as seaworthiness underway.
Perhas you could buy a 16' skiff to boat around inside the harbor and the backwaters on days its too rough to go beyond the breakwater to increase your "boat-able days"
I guess my point is that this answer is not universal. Different boats, and different boating styles will lead to different answers.
