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Old 01-02-2015, 01:06 AM   #81
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I did get one dissention as a PM - but still the numbers are overwhelming. The point made about being higher up on the boat was particularly telling - that would make roll far less tolerable than on a sailboat when one is at or near the waterline.
Can confirm mouse on a broomstick theory. I work 90 feet above the water on a 140' tug, and let me tell ya, it can be one hell of a ride up here. The closest I've ever come to being seasick has been in this little sky box. Once it was so bad that the only relief I could find was to lay flat on the deck for a few minutes at a time. But then, at the end of my watch when I head below, it's practically pleasant sleeping weather.
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Old 01-02-2015, 03:13 AM   #82
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Here's part of an email we received from a Kady Krogen 39 owner who had traveled from the Great Lakes to Trinidad plus spent several years cruising in the Caribbean with out stabilization. They added paravanes at a cost of just under 15K. They contracted the entire build/installation in Trinidad.

...We are also finding there is a large and steep learning curve to the paravanes. Things like launching and re-covering the dinghy, or re-covering and launching "the birds". Underway they are very close to a miracle. As you described, Larry, they seem to slow things down. The biggest difference I see is that the initial roll "down sea" is slower, but the "re-bound" is nearly non existent. We have been in beam seas with them that would have us running for cover before. At anchor, the characteristic roll Caribbean anchorage is far more comfortable. Bottom line....we like 'em!!



That is pretty much our experience also. Did it for $10k in Miami.
Our system seems simpler to deploy and retrieve, as I can deploy in a few minutes and retrieve just a few more, less than 10'

Also, easy for me to adjust, both underway and at rest.
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Old 01-02-2015, 06:36 AM   #83
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Our system seems simpler to deploy and retrieve, as I can deploy in a few minutes and retrieve just a few more, less than 10'

Description , drawing , photo, video?
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Old 01-02-2015, 09:13 AM   #84
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Alfons

Sir,
No Fins, no parafans or whatever, just get a Seakeeper Gyro. It cant get better then that! Sailboats are completely different and not comparable to Power. No work to be done with a gyro. Just switch it on!
I went through rough seas in Asia on Sail and Power. With a Gyro everyone on board wonders how comfy it is on a power boat even in rough conditions.
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Ps. you may have bought one already when you read this. Good on you. You never regret the expense.
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Old 01-02-2015, 09:25 AM   #85
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Greetings,
Welcome aboard.
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Old 01-02-2015, 09:30 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Wxx3 View Post


That is pretty much our experience also. Did it for $10k in Miami.
Our system seems simpler to deploy and retrieve, as I can deploy in a few minutes and retrieve just a few more, less than 10'

Also, easy for me to adjust, both underway and at rest.
Richard: I don't think you have seen the set up on the KK39. A different design/designer than on Hobo. We can also deploy and retrieve in a few minutes.

The difference in the cost is most likely in the fit and finish. He used SS compression posts vs. rope or wire. The poles are all painted. He went with a yacht finish.

Question: What conditions do you find it necessary to adjust the paravanes while underway?
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:06 PM   #87
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I love my Naiad stabilizers and gave kept my dinner down more than once, just make sure if you buy a boat with them that they were serviced in the past three years or budget $3k to get the fins removed checked and the seals replaced .

Good luck
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Old 01-03-2015, 12:01 AM   #88
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I love my Naiad stabilizers and gave kept my dinner down more than once, just make sure if you buy a boat with them that they were serviced in the past three years or budget $3k to get the fins removed checked and the seals replaced .

Good luck
Costs us about $1300 for 7 ft Wesmars. Schedule it during a bottom job haulout. Top notch yard does it.
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Old 01-03-2015, 02:08 PM   #89
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Eric-you posed my question-Where would stabilizers be installed on the GH hull? My understanding in that they should be somewhere around 30-35 degrees below horizontal to be most effective. I see no way tht could be done on the GH hull. that makes it a moot point as to whether the boat would perform better or not.
Not exactly: Seakeeper Inc.
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Old 01-03-2015, 04:07 PM   #90
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I'm of the opinion that stabilization is a big plus for ANY boat. The best type of stabilization may vary depending on your boat, and it may not always be cost effective; but it can always be improved one way or another.
No one has perfected the hull for all sea conditions; not even GH.

I've got bilge keels and sails for stabilization, but there are times when that is not enough.
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Old 01-03-2015, 05:47 PM   #91
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To stabilize or not to stabilize?

Larry and I have the same setup with the passive stabilizers. With the active fins, I understand you loose half a kt on cruising speed. We loose the same with the paravanes, and I believe rolling chocks also claim about half a kt. With the inside waters of the PNW, we rarely have our paravanes down and most of the time we don't need them as we tend to be more fair weather. That said we have them and can use them when necessary. We will be going to the Central Coast of BC this year and I suspect we will make more use of them. The paravanes work really well but you do have to deploy them so they are not as convenient as active fins, but one advantage is they are largely maintenance free. They are great when you get into a pristine anchorage and you want to keep other boats away! ;-)

I have heard of paravanes jumping out of the water and hitting pilothouses on trollers, however, these may be due to design flaws on those particular vessels. In addition, I don't plan in being out in weather that is so severe that paravanes are flying out of the water.


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Old 01-05-2015, 03:50 PM   #92
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The grasshopper design will keep the the paravane polls from flopping up out of the water which would allow the fish to strike the hull. Most pleasure boats that I see do not use the grasshopper design.
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Old 01-05-2015, 05:52 PM   #93
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Guess I'm missing something here. What is the grasshopper design.
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Old 01-05-2015, 06:30 PM   #94
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The grasshopper design will keep the the paravane polls from flopping up out of the water which would allow the fish to strike the hull. Most pleasure boats that I see do not use the grasshopper design.

Grasshopper design? Do you mean "Jackknives" between theorems and the mast? These are often used on trollers, but would be a difficult install on wider a vessel such as mine (kk42).


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Old 01-05-2015, 08:10 PM   #95
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Perhaps Jack knifes are the same as grasshopper legs. The GL are common on commercial boats. They are an articulated metal arm usually extending between the mast and the paravane poll. When the pole is up the arm is closed and when the poll is down the arm opens up. Up position looks like this ^.
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Old 01-06-2015, 12:25 AM   #96
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Grasshopper design? Do you mean "Jackknives" between theorems and the mast? These are often used on trollers, but would be a difficult install on wider a vessel such as mine (kk42).


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Between the theorems and the mast? How does spell check get theorems from poles?

...yes. Probably the same.


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Old 01-06-2015, 10:34 AM   #97
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"the arms" perhaps?
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Old 01-06-2015, 10:47 AM   #98
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The grasshopper design will keep the the paravane polls from flopping up out of the water which would allow the fish to strike the hull. Most pleasure boats that I see do not use the grasshopper design.
I have seen these on boats that have an "H" fame for the paravanes. JDCave's and Hobo each have "A" frame designs. After 10K plus miles with the fish in the water, our poles have never come up. The fish have come out of the water a few times in big seas but never coming close to striking the hull.
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Old 01-06-2015, 12:44 PM   #99
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Britannia,
We've been sailing 40-50ft sailboats for over 10 years. We recently (3 months ago) jumped into a Selene 53 which is stabilized with fins. We have done 4-5 days at sea with both and the difference in the fatigue factor was drastic.

In my limited experience the motion of our sailboats was very different than the motion of our trawler with the fins "off". First of all in the sailboat we're closer to the water so motion is not amplified as much. Regardless, there is more roll in the trawler with the fins "off" than in the sailboat. What ultimately makes it for us more uncomfortable is the large difference in roll pattern. The sailboat moving much more rhythmically made it more comfortable.

With our fins on, there really is little to no roll. The major movement is the boat pitching, for which stabilizers don't counteract (I understand gyros do ($$$$)). The feeling inside becomes far more comfortable than our sailboats ever were underway. While underway we can put things down anywhere and later find them were we left them. Even drinks. Do that in seas in what sailboat?

You are correct, it is more an issue (I think) of comfort than safety. The fins play a huge role in that but they are only part of the equation, not being as exposed to the elements is another major factor together with more comfortable living conditions overall. If sailing is closer to camping, I guess we have a nice RV now.

For us, we had to have them. No question.

We also learned that there are options. Ours is powered by a take-off from our main transmission. So using them is only an option if we're under power by our main engine (we have a get home backup). They can also be powered, independently from you main. There are tradeoffs both ways. We like not having to run an additional power source (cheaper run, less to maintain). On the flip side if powered independently you can use the stabilizers (at least our model) at anchor.

Hopefully you find a chance to go out on a trawler and and feel the difference for yourself. I would encourage you to walk a dock and ask an owner. If someone seriously approached us, we'd take them out, and I bet many others would also.

In any case, this is our experience thus far. Hope it's usefull.

Harry & Karen
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Old 01-06-2015, 02:04 PM   #100
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I have a rear view mirror on my bridge. It's name is the Sea Ray mirror. Inevitably when I am not looking a big power boat operated by either an ignorant idiot or an arrogant ass will pass me at close quarters. I have always wished for stabilizers so I could raise my glass in a toast when he passes. It is impossible to have the boat totally battened down for such an occurrence.

In my part of the country stabilizers would be much more important in the ICW than offshore.
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