Stabilization for a GB32

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GB32Patience

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2020
Messages
117
Vessel Name
Patience
Vessel Make
1978 GB 32 Sedan
So tired of turning into the wakes of Hattaras and other "sport fisherman" type vessels that power by oblivious or ignorant of their wake impact. This is not an uncommon issue but in posted threads, have not seen solutions for a 32' range vessel. Our GB32 rocks and rolls dangerously far too often in the Great South Bay of Long Island where there seems to be more of "go for it" than "respect your fellow boater" attitude.... nuff said..... starting to look into stabilization approached, Seakeeper, fixxed fins, active fins.... this is an "old school" hull looking for some tech upgrade... ideas? Thanks!
 
I installed keypower hydraulic stabs on my NP 45. Probably wouldn’t have another boat without. Game changer.
 
I cannot think of a stabilization system that would be practical for small recreational day-trip style boat. The smallest hydraulic system would be at least $40k installed, and not even sure your boat has access for the equipment. Seakeeper might be possible in your Laz, but again, that would be in a similar cost range and you'd need to run your generator full time (if you have a generator......). There are some newer active fins that are powered by electric motors vs hydraulic motors that would be easier to fit the equipment, but cost would still be in the $40k range, a very sizeable cost compared to the value of your boat.

You could add roll-chocks which are fairly economical to fabricate and install, but they provide limited benefit for your boat wake issues. Reportedly, they attenuate the roll period and lessen the oscillation, but do not fully stabilize the boat.

You could also add paravanes fairly economically, but would be a PITA to setup for a day-sail, plus would need to be pulled-in as you navigate a shallower channel.

Final option is a steadying sail which, isn't really an option. Some folks report they work fairly well, but I've used them and found their effectiveness to be very marginal (honestly, nil). If they were to work, would be with a strong beam wind.

Sorry I can provide some optimism. But good luck with your boat!

Peter

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More throttle may help. That's my usual defense against being tossed around by large wakes. Form stability on a SD boat typically increases as you go above displacement speeds.

Sent from my moto g play (2021) using Trawler Forum mobile app
 
I am going through exactly the same debate with my boat. My rounded hull form and relatively shallow keel rolls very aggressively.

The problem with stabilization is a benefit vs cost equation.

Active Fin stabilizers are more money than people think. Much closer to $75K installed than $50K.

Choose your brand they are all expensive.

I'm trying Rolling Chocks. One week from today my boat is getting hauled at Baja Naval in Ensenada for the instasllation of rolling chocks or bilge keels.

I have talked just this last month with the owner of the exact same model boat and he reports that it is a different boat with bilge keels installed.

In his opinión they do not stop the roll, they dampen it considerably. For example instead of rolling back and forth seemingly forever the boat stops moving in just a roll or two and those rolls are much smaller.

Totasl time to complete the job will be 3-4 weeks and I'll report on the results in August when I get my boat back.
 

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There used to be a company in the PNW that made a hard chine add on for the Bayliner motoryachts. Maybe they were called Under Hulls. But I think they went out of production after Bayliner stopped making the MYs.
 
.....

In his opinión they do not stop the roll, they dampen it considerably. For example instead of rolling back and forth seemingly forever the boat stops moving in just a roll or two and those rolls are much smaller.....

A number of Willard 40s have had roll chocks installed and report similar outcomes....roll is attenuated.

I should be back in Ensenada (Cruiseport) in about 3 weeks. I'll look for your boat on Naval.

Peter
 
I think rolling chocks would be a good choice. Bilge keels,or bat wings are a different story. Personally, I’d go with the chocks. I know of a guy who installed them on his NP38 and seemed happy. There’s a Vietnamese fellow in the yard at the marina where my boat is moored. He’s quite affordable, and experienced with their installation. I posted photos of his work on another thread somewhere on the forum. He’s in Steveston British Columbia, so that doesn’t help you. One thing to be aware of, when getting lifted, don’t leave your vessel in the slings too long. I’ve seen them get crushed. Make sure they are well glassed.

Oh, here you go!

Jim

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Thanks for the photos!!!

On my boat I'm going to go with a bit steeper angle.

The ones in your photos seem to be sticking out the side (maybe it is the photos). I.m going to have mine installed at more of an angle like the photos in my post.
 
There used to be a company in the PNW that made a hard chine add on for the Bayliner motoryachts. Maybe they were called Under Hulls. But I think they went out of production after Bayliner stopped making the MYs.

Yes, Mr John Ripley of Bananna Belt Boats came up with the idea I think, and their next door neighbor Northharbor Diesel and Yacht Service ran with the idea.

I opted not to go with that product really because I was after a bit more than just squaring off the hull form
 
I've been trying to find an outfit that will design and build Paravane Stabilizers (the entire system). I know this is a much cheaper solution with the added BENEFIT of "at anchor stabilization". I would connect a "flopper stopper" to each pole (instead of the fish) and this would be very effective at anchor (although the fish would help too).
I cannot locate anyone on the West Coast to design, manufacture and install Paravanes. This is a system better suited for a full displacement trawler and not a semi planing or full planing hull........
 
Taras,There is a u-tube couple on Cruising Sea Venture,they had their system
done in Alaska,Great video.
Regards Will:)
 
With the value of a GB32, I would consider trying a steadying sail.
 
My naval architect stated that large, well-designed rolling chocks could knock about 35% off your roll, so that seems like the most logical addition to the GB32. Any active stabilizers would cost more than the boat's value. Paravanes sound like a good second choice, but you'll probably have to replace the little mizzen mast with a more stout mast with supports running down to the keel or frame.
 
Rolling chocks seem to be a good direction here.

Thanks very much for the breadth of input here. Covered all the avenues I have been considering and although I know the GB32 is small potatoes compared to larger vessels, we are loving her, suits my wife and I very well, so an investment in the 20-30K range would not be out of the question, it would need to be a very good solution. I do have reasonable glass/construction skills so the rolling chocks are tempting but getting the engineering side of things down (dimensions, placement, etc.) would be main concern. Will be interested to follow noted directions here to see how folks make out. Posted photos provide great reference. Regarding the steadying sail reference to the value of the vessel, appreciate the sentiment but I think I can get a little more creative than that... will follow up on this thread relative to the level of creativeness pursued!!! Thanks all for the valuable input on this topic! FYI... no slings on fall move to the hard... hydraulic trailer does it for us.. see post photo... up the street on a trailer.... nice... just need to see where the chocks will fall!
 
We've been pricing systems for install on a smaller trawler. Even the simple hydraulic, pneumatic, or electric systems are priced from $60 to $80k+! And that is if you have the space. Would be curious to learn of those who installed rolling chocks and their thoughts pre and post.
 
I bought a new kit for $28k, spent $8k for yard actuator/fiberglass work. Did the rest myself. $1,200 extra for parts and hoses.
 
I bought a new kit for $28k, spent $8k for yard actuator/fiberglass work. Did the rest myself. $1,200 extra for parts and hoses.

I need to hire you! My DIY skills don't encompass that level of marine work. My quotes are from two yards who would install for me.....
 
I bought a new kit for $28k, spent $8k for yard actuator/fiberglass work. Did the rest myself. $1,200 extra for parts and hoses.
What brand and size fins did you go with for your 45 footer? Single actuator or dual? Did that include modifications to front of engine to carry the hydraulic pump and pulleys?

I went with the smallest Wesmar system which was about $25k pre-pandemic for my 36 footer, but the rest of the stuff was above your pricing.....in Mexico. So interested to have more details for future reference.

Peter
 
Yes, Mr John Ripley of Bananna Belt Boats came up with the idea I think, and their next door neighbor Northharbor Diesel and Yacht Service ran with the idea.

I opted not to go with that product really because I was after a bit more than just squaring off the hull form

Kevin, John Ripley is a friend of a friend. His method worked on two Bayliners I know of. John is retired and I believe his daughter is running BB.

Question....will you still be able to be hauled by Travel Lift slings with these chocks in place? Are they strong enough or can the slings be placed fore and aft of the chocks?
 
What brand and size fins did you go with for your 45 footer? Single actuator or dual? Did that include modifications to front of engine to carry the hydraulic pump and pulleys?

I went with the smallest Wesmar system which was about $25k pre-pandemic for my 36 footer, but the rest of the stuff was above your pricing.....in Mexico. So interested to have more details for future reference.

Peter



I bought a keypower dual actuator 7.5 sq ft fin system. Very beefy! I used the Cummins PTO-A pad for a vickers V10 vane pump. 1,000 psi operating pressure. Happy to chat about my experience. Negligible speed difference. Boat does not rock!

Jim
 
The solution for me was an "anti-roll bag." About $160 invested. I fabricated a large bag out of vinyl-coated polyester. It required heat welding, which can be done as a DIY. I installed a fill port. Placed crosswise on the flying bridge to cover the entire width and then some. Filled with about 25 gallons of water. It operates like a anti-roll tank (ART), but with some differences. An ART is usually "free surface," meaning that the fluid in the tank is free to move about on its surface.

Because free surface water moves "too fast" from side-to-side, baffles are usually installed to slow the wave generated by the boat's roll. The idea is to get the water to move such that the wave surge reaches the low side of the boat just as the natural roll period is lifting that side. On a boat my size (and your size) it is possible to deaden the effect of a wake by running from side to side on the boat in opposition to the effect of the wake. It is even more effective if you are on the flying bridge. That is essentially what the ART does, but it "runs" farther, faster, and longer than I am able to jump back and forth. It works underway, at anchor, when I'm asleep, and when I'm away from the boat. Try that with another stabilization system.

I thought that there are probably several other ways to slow down the wave in the tank besides using baffles. Increase the viscosity of the fluid, for instance. Or don't use a tank at all. Use a bag that would apply tension to the "free surface." You have probably seen the little desktop "wave generators" that have blue water covered with oil between glass. The oil slows down the blue water to make a gentile, soothing wave. Water in a bag responds similarly by slowing the wave action.

All this is to say that I have a big bag of water on my flying bridge. When I tested it, I needed to create a "baseline" as to how my boat rolled without the tank. I put an inclinometer on my helm and had my wife rock the boat from the dock until it reached a 7 degree roll, then timed 10 full rolls. My "snappy" roll period is about 3.4 seconds. Then I filled the tank and had her rock the boat. She couldn't get it to roll 7 degrees, so we changed places. I stood on the dock with the lines loosened and had her watch the inclinometer. I could not get it to rock 7 degrees, even by timing my jumping onboard. I pooped out. We timed it anyway, but it stopped rolling before 10 rolls.

There's my scientific evidence that an anti-roll bag works.

The first real test was going around Cape Caution. We had been impressed by the way that the boat handled wakes in Puget Sound and the Strait of Georgia, but Cape Caution was two hours of sea swell on the beam. Easy peasy. I then emptied it for cruising further on north. It was empty when we crossed Seaforth Channel and I had complaints from the wife. Stuff hit the cabin floor for the first time. Once we got back to a place where water was available (Ocean Falls), the bag got refilled. I could fill it with buckets of saltwater, but it would take an hour of tedious work.

I think there are a couple of improvements I could make, but for the price and ease of "installation," I'm happy with it for this trip. Should be back south in a month or so and can give more details. Just happened to get Wi-Fi at Dawsons Landing and could reply to this thread. First decent Wi-Fi in several weeks, so of course I went to TF. Something to think about before you haul out and glue $10K of stuff to the hull.
 
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The solution for me was an "anti-roll bag." About $160 invested. I fabricated a large bag out of vinyl-coated polyester. It required heat welding, which can be done as a DIY. I installed a fill port. Placed crosswise on the flying bridge to cover the entire width and then some. Filled with about 25 gallons of water. It operates like a anti-roll tank (ART), but with some differences. An ART is usually "free surface," meaning that the fluid in the tank is free to move about on its surface.

Because free surface water moves "too fast" from side-to-side, baffles are usually installed to slow the wave generated by the boat's roll. The idea is to get the water to move such that the wave surge reaches the low side of the boat just as the natural roll period is lifting that side. On a boat my size (and your size) it is possible to deaden the effect of a wake by running from side to side on the boat in opposition to the effect of the wake. It is even more effective if you are on the flying bridge. That is essentially what the ART does, but it "runs" farther, faster, and longer than I am able to jump back and forth. It works underway, at anchor, when I'm asleep, and when I'm away from the boat. Try that with another stabilization system.

I thought that there are probably several other ways to slow down the wave in the tank besides using baffles. Increase the viscosity of the fluid, for instance. Or don't use a tank at all. Use a bag that would apply tension to the "free surface." You have probably seen the little desktop "wave generators" that have blue water covered with oil between glass. The oil slows down the blue water to make a gentile, soothing wave. Water in a bag responds similarly by slowing the wave action.

All this is to say that I have a big bag of water on my flying bridge. When I tested it, I needed to create a "baseline" as to how my boat rolled without the tank. I put an inclinometer on my helm and had my wife rock the boat from the dock until it reached a 7 degree roll, then timed 10 full rolls. My "snappy" roll period is about 3.4 seconds. Then I filled the tank and had her rock the boat. She couldn't get it to roll 7 degrees, so we changed places. I stood on the dock with the lines loosened and had her watch the inclinometer. I could not get it to rock 7 degrees, even by timing my jumping onboard. I pooped out. We timed it anyway, but it stopped rolling before 10 rolls.

There's my scientific evidence that an anti-roll bag works.

The first real test was going around Cape Caution. We had been impressed by the way that the boat handled wakes in Puget Sound and the Strait of Georgia, but Cape Caution was two hours of sea swell on the beam. Easy peasy. I then emptied it for cruising further on north. It was empty when we crossed Seaforth Channel and I had complaints from the wife. Stuff hit the cabin floor for the first time. Once we got back to a place where water was available (Ocean Falls), the bag got refilled. I could fill it with buckets of saltwater, but it would take an hour of tedious work.

I think there are a couple of improvements I could make, but for the price and ease of "installation," I'm happy with it for this trip. Should be back south in a month or so and can give more details. Just happened to get Wi-Fi at Dawsons Landing and could reply to this thread. First decent Wi-Fi in several weeks, so of course I went to TF. Something to think about before you haul out and glue $10K of stuff to the hull.


I love this idea. Plus, it’s a huge solar shower bag if you want to use it that way.
I wonder if wake boat ballast bags might be long enough to do this.
 
Kevin, John Ripley is a friend of a friend. His method worked on two Bayliners I know of. John is retired and I believe his daughter is running BB.

Question....will you still be able to be hauled by Travel Lift slings with these chocks in place? Are they strong enough or can the slings be placed fore and aft of the chocks?

All if ther installations I've seen on power boats have the slings over the chocks during lifting with zero problems.
 
I love the simple physics of this idea! Does anybody else have any experience with something similar? Would love to hear from someone else with practical experience on a similar solution.
 
I love this idea. Plus, it’s a huge solar shower bag if you want to use it that way.
I wonder if wake boat ballast bags might be long enough to do this.

I thought the same thing but I can only find a ballast bag thats 60" long. I'd need another 48" to span our bridge or aft deck so I doubt if this would have much impact. Still, what a novel idea!
 

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Wow, now there is some thinking out of the box! Thanks Marco for taking the time to explain this solution and for others to comment. I have a pretty good space within my bridge console structure that could support. A washdown pump might make for an easy fill/empty/fill environment.
Thank you!
 
@Marco, have you done any tuning of the roll-bag to obtain 180º out of phase with the boat's roll? Do you add different amounts of air or something?
 
had my wife rock the boat from the dock until it reached a 7 degree roll, t.

LOL:

if i can find a wife that will be willing to do that, ill marry again:socool:
 
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