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Old 07-08-2015, 11:03 AM   #141
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"Sometimes" (as Kevin said in the beginning) big engines have advantages.

In a FD hull that's not the case.

In a planing or semi-planing hull (almost all the boats here) sometimes (or even more times than that) big engines have advantages.

But most of the boats here don't benifit much from more power. Lots here run on one engine or at 25% load.

So for most of the time most of our boats have too much power to way too much power.

Seems odd to me that a triple screw boat would make sooo much sense here but ..... never heard of one.
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Old 07-08-2015, 11:12 AM   #142
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Dammit.....maybe we should change the name of the forum....

And Refugio, while the Gulf Coast may be flat, beauty is in the eye of the beholder!!!..
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Old 07-08-2015, 11:18 AM   #143
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Going back to Kevin's original post about big engines and how it enabled him to cross a body of water more quickly...

This thread has touched on some of the tradeoffs - fuel consumption, fuel capacity, engine room crowding, maintenance, et cetera.

But here's one more factor - water capacity. The Bayliner 4778 has two water tanks forward - 140 and 60 gallons (figures differ, but this is the gist of it). If Bayliner installed a bow thruster at the factory they relocated the 60 gallon tank, but if they didn't then adding a thruster eliminates that tank and owners are down to 140 gallons (plus the 18 in the water heater, though since you can't drain it you can't count that).

I posted yesterday about the water shortage in the Gulf Islands, and my wife just mentioned that email again this morning which made me think to add it to this thread.

So...planing boat, big twin diesels, every cubic inch utilized (4788 owners do crazy stuff like relocate holding tanks to get enough room to install another small piece of equipment - like a much needed watermaker!), and a water capacity that is - at best - 200 gallons. For a 3 stateroom boat. OK, an owner can install a watermaker (performing significant surgery in the process) but I dunno, watermakers are finicky and it seems like the vast majority of watermakers are "out of service".

Notwithstanding the need / desire to be able to go fast to cross larger bodies, time a tide change, outrun the other boats to the anchorage, whatever...the accumulated tradeoffs of the planing style boat are - collectively - not my preference. I get that some folks want to run fast to get to the destination, but - again, for me - I like the "getting there" as much if not more than the "being there". I'm quite content to putter along at 7.5 knots, working with current charts to pick a route that give me an extra .5 knots, not being overly worried about hitting anything, keeping the noise / vibration / fuel consumption / et cetera to moderate levels, watching to world go by and - if it gets a little boring - heck, I can read a book and look up every couple of minutes.

Then again, here in the PNW the boating is interesting. The topography is stunning. There are lots of other vessels on the water. The tides and currents and other challenges are engaging. I see vessels making long straight runs in areas with flat horizons (like the Gulf of Mexico) and I suppose that might be tedious. But I actually enjoy the journey and if I were to run faster (clearly an impossibility with my boat!) that wouldn't significantly improve my overall enjoyment.

On the other hand, my wife would prefer a Star Trek transporter...

Thanks for the post. The word prefer, speaks of preferences vs abilities. You prefer a certain style of boat vs telling me and the rest of the SD world our boats are incapable. Seriously thanks...

We have to remember when comparing passagemaker class boats with SD hull form boats that they have two very different intended missions.

The SD hull form on my Bayliner 4788 (and almost every SD hull boat I've seen), and everything else on the boat is sized for use in the open ocean along a coast line.

With 440 gallons of fuel capacity we can run at displacement speeds safely for over 600NM. If we want to cruise at 15 knots we can do that for somewhere around 300NM. Thats coast line running, and there is nowhere in north america out of our reach.

The boat construction is designed to take seas that are normally encountered taking advantage of weather forecasting which is accurate out to approx 72 hours. It is constructed strong enough to take peak seas that were not forecasted, if operated prudently.

The water tanks are as you indicated 200 gallons. Thats about four days for my wife and I, not trying at all to conserve. (we do have a watermaker though, and it does work because we use it regularly)

The fridge is sized the same. We eat allot of vegies and salads. We find that four days of produce fit in the fridge. The list goes on and on.

Thats because my boats mission is operation along a coastline within the accurate weather forecasting capability time frame. The boat is designed and built to hop from anchorage to anchorage, with port stops for re-provisioning.

A passagemaker has a different mission, that being longer term operation at sea. It should have the fuel, water, and provisioning capacity for extended journeys. It should also be built strong enough to withstand normal peak sea states since its mission is to operate outside of accurate weather forecasting windows. Its mission is to cross oceans, and also to provide extended time between re-provisioning.
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Old 07-08-2015, 11:32 AM   #144
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I get a real kick out of this thread as over the years I've had (and most others have had) all kinds of boats. Big, little, big-fast, little fast, slow, mono & multi hull, etc. If you are a boat "nut" as am I, you realized that almost all were designed for a specific mission and the majority of them did it well! Big engines, little engines, no engines, etc. I loved them all. With me it wasn't about the particular type of boat I was on, but rather it was ALL about being on the water! Whether it was a surf board, jet ski, kayak or a 70 footer, if it
was on the water, I loved it. (and still do!)
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Old 07-08-2015, 12:29 PM   #145
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And Refugio, while the Gulf Coast may be flat, beauty is in the eye of the beholder!!!..
Flat can have its own appeal - a friend just spent a month on a sailing cat in the Bahamas:
Click image for larger version

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Old 07-08-2015, 01:10 PM   #146
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i get a real kick out of this thread as over the years i've had (and most others have had) all kinds of boats. Big, little, big-fast, little fast, slow, mono & multi hull, etc. If you are a boat "nut" as am i, you realized that almost all were designed for a specific mission and the majority of them did it well! Big engines, little engines, no engines, etc. I loved them all. With me it wasn't about the particular type of boat i was on, but rather it was all about being on the water! Whether it was a surf board, jet ski, kayak or a 70 footer, if it
was on the water, i loved it. (and still do!)
amen brutha!!!!!

I have loved every boat of mine as well. I guess the one I loved the least was a Cape Dory 25 sailboat. Pretty little thing. And nothing wrong with it. Just too small. ANd when you get your ass kicked in a 25 foot boat...you get it kicked...Properly!!!
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Old 07-08-2015, 01:21 PM   #147
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amen brutha!!!!!

I have loved every boat of mine as well. I guess the one I loved the least was a Cape Dory 25 sailboat. Pretty little thing. And nothing wrong with it. Just too small. ANd when you get your ass kicked in a 25 foot boat...you get it kicked...Properly!!!
Yo Baker - Been TOO Long without any of your famous-type gal picts! Any in the 25'/ Dory while getten asses kicked?? LOL
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Old 07-08-2015, 01:49 PM   #148
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Sorry, Don but I had to set the record straight!
Thanks for modifying the picture, Walt. To me the second picture represents what cruising is all about to us. Gunk holing through the aqua green, clear waters of the Bahamas with the helm deck opened up on 4 sides. The nice breeze blowing through, and an occasional fish on the line. Stop about mid afternoon for a swim, and grill some fish for dinner. Then the boat swinging on the anchor with the breeze coming through the hatches all night. Others have their ideas of cruising, but this to us is about the best we are going to get.

One of the joys is taking a shower under the stars on the swim platform.
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Old 07-08-2015, 03:27 PM   #149
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Seems odd to me that a triple screw boat would make sooo much sense here but ..... never heard of one.
There are many triple screw boats. The majority I've seen have been IPS (excepting outboards where they're everywhere). Sea Ray L 590 is triple. Delta Marine has triples. Regal had a triple. Then many larger boats have triple straight inboards. There have been some designed at the outset to allow one to run conveniently on one, two or three engines. Using just the middle engine, when wanting to go at trawler speed. Trading off to the two outside engines for more speed. Bringing all three in for maximum speed. You don't see triples here simply because they're generally only on larger boats than most here.
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Old 07-08-2015, 03:33 PM   #150
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I get a real kick out of this thread as over the years I've had (and most others have had) all kinds of boats. Big, little, big-fast, little fast, slow, mono & multi hull, etc. If you are a boat "nut" as am I, you realized that almost all were designed for a specific mission and the majority of them did it well! Big engines, little engines, no engines, etc. I loved them all. With me it wasn't about the particular type of boat I was on, but rather it was ALL about being on the water! Whether it was a surf board, jet ski, kayak or a 70 footer, if it
was on the water, I loved it. (and still do!)
I love all boats. Have been on boats from 17' to 130' and loved them all. And love tenders/RIB's, from 11'-20'. What about 40+ knots in an 11' RIB? Fastest boat I've owned was about 55 knots. Fastest boat I've ever been on was 90+ mph so about 80 knots. Slowest boat I've owned was WOT 25 knots, Cruising 20 knots. Slowest I've been on was a Charter that would do about 12 knots, cruise at 10. Oh have been on some slower sailboats. But I don't sail as such, just ride along with those who do.

You left out canoe, Codger. And pedal boats at the city lakes.
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Old 07-08-2015, 03:37 PM   #151
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B&B let's not Forget the 77' Hatt Bodacious with trips.
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Old 07-08-2015, 04:18 PM   #152
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What a great thread. We've strayed from big engines vs small, FD hulls vs SD vs planing hulls, what whales eat, who likes to go fast vs who doesn't. That's just a part of the reason why I like TF.

Carry on, fellow boaters!
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Old 07-08-2015, 04:48 PM   #153
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What a great thread. We've strayed from big engines vs small, FD hulls vs SD vs planing hulls, what whales eat, who likes to go fast vs who doesn't. That's just a part of the reason why I like TF.

Carry on, fellow boaters!
Hey - Wait a second! Read post 147 again... What bout gals on boats??? Let's get Baker back onto his photo routine; with best in class female picts. Can't possibly leave that part of boating unattended!
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Old 07-08-2015, 05:05 PM   #154
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Ted (OC Diver)--- I am well aware of the"definitions" of the term "trawler" as applied to recreational boats on Wikipedia and other places. This doesn't make this use of the term correct. It simply shows us where all those kids who flunked English in school ended up working.
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Old 07-08-2015, 06:00 PM   #155
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Well then, how do you feel about the word "gay"? The definition of that word has changed significantly during our lifetime.

Either that or Maria was trying to tell us something in West Side Story...

Language is dynamic.
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Old 07-08-2015, 06:01 PM   #156
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Do you remember the SS United States?

United States had the most powerful steam turbines of any merchant marine vessel, with a total power of 240,000 SHP (shaft horsepower) delivered to four 18-foot (5.5 m) diameter manganese-bronze propellers. This gave her the greatest power-to-weight ratio ever achieved in a commercial passenger liner, before or since. The ship was capable of steaming astern at over 20 knots (37 km/h; 23 mph), and could carry enough fuel and stores to steam non-stop for over 10,000 nautical miles (19,000 km; 12,000 mi) at a cruising speed of 35 knots (65 km/h; 40 mph).[16]

Imagine what she could have done with nuclear power.

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Old 07-08-2015, 06:12 PM   #157
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Well then, how do you feel about the word "gay"? The definition of that word has changed significantly during our lifetime.
Gay isn't a definition of an actual thing. Gay is a definition of a state of mind. To that end, it's meaning hasn't actually changed in some respects.

Trawler is a definition of an actual thing. The use of the word "trawler" to describe a toy boat is simply a marketing ploy to try to project the image of one thing onto another thing even though the other thing isn't remotely like the real thing. It's a marketing gimmick, no more, no less, and the boating world fell for it.

A real trawler is still a trawler. Its definition hasn't changed at all.
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Old 07-08-2015, 06:48 PM   #158
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Ted (OC Diver)--- I am well aware of the"definitions" of the term "trawler" as applied to recreational boats on Wikipedia and other places. This doesn't make this use of the term correct. It simply shows us where all those kids who flunked English in school ended up working.
Good on you Marin,

While I generally hold to the principles of brevity, wit etc., I've got to say that I'm really enjoying your special brand of pedantic proxility being exercised on this thread.

Keep it going!

cheers,
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Old 07-08-2015, 07:02 PM   #159
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Good on you Marin,

While I generally hold to the principles of brevity, wit etc., I've got to say that I'm really enjoying your special brand of pedantic proxility being exercised on this thread.

Keep it going!

cheers,
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Old 07-08-2015, 07:06 PM   #160
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Displacement hulls will always be the baseline for boating, as will hull speed for our 30-60' designation. A tailored boat optimized for 7 knots, yet can crawl up onto the plane when required, with a flatter bottom aft - anybody here have one of them?

I had an old Turner 26' lapstrake that was flogged as an "express cruiser", soggy and heavy, so maybe we can revive....no, there's too much of the go-fast idiom in there... ;-)
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