Some people just shouldn’t own a boat!

[Star0210]

If this is not allowed, please delete.
Thought it would be a good discussion on insurance, boat ownership responsibility, squatting, etc.
Squatting and insurance fraud in Jupiter, FL?
This was posted elsewhere.



“Here's the time line:

Thur 4/18 pm: to my knowledge my boat is is out anchored and floating(im in NC 700 miles away on family emergency)

Fri 10am: i call and purchase progressive insurance effective immediately because i hear storms are coming, and tell them im concerned thats why im buying the policy.
(only had the boat less than a month, had not registeted or bought ins yet had 30 days, so titled it only in my name)

Fri Pm/sun am: my boat is evidently driven by the storms and beached.

SATERDAY PM a friend checks on my boat, sends me this photo and tells me boat is beached.

SUNAY AM: I file claim (just wanting it towed out and reanchored, ('sign/glide)

SUNDAY 10:00pm jupiter marine police issue me citation for $145 in fines (that i receive today 4-24)

During this time 'progressive' has not sent an adjuster yet and is still 'reviewing' to determine if it will be covered, and it has been subject to vandalism for almost a week now while they decide to cover the claim or not!

Thoughts/opinions please

Wednesday i call progressive adjuster and he says their 'reviewing the claim' STILL! While the boat remains subject to damage/vandalism”

For some background, Check out this guys you tube he is a squatter and it just shows he would have canceled his insurance as soon as the storm was over he is a scammer

 

[swampu]

Thats funny, I saw this on fb this morning and wrote a long post on personal responsibility, then deleted it. I always get pissed and show my ass on these forums. I am working on renewing my insurance this year and my premiums for liability only went from 1200/year to 1600/year. I am currently shopping around, but this story really pissed me off.

 

[Star0210]

Thats funny, I saw this on fb this morning and wrote a long post on personal responsibility, then deleted it. I always get pissed and show my ass on these forums. I am working on renewing my insurance this year and my premiums for liability only went from 1200/year to 1600/year. I am currently shopping around, but this story really pissed me off.

Some of the comments are priceless....especially from the guy himself.
My reply was.....There’s nothing wrong with buying a cheap boat to live aboard when you don’t have a lot of money; however, the responsibilities of boat ownership are the same whether you have a dump of a boat or a mega million dollar yacht.

 

[JohnEasley]

Hey Star. I saw that post on Facebook this morning. His insurance carrier is almost certainly holding an executive-level review to see if they are even going to accept the policy or rescind it. I would be surprised if they offer coverage to this guy.

 

[Star0210]

Hey Star. I saw that post on Facebook this morning. His insurance carrier is almost certainly holding an executive-level review to see if they are even going to accept the policy or rescind it. I would be surprised if they offer coverage to this guy.

I can’t imagine they would cover it...isn’t there usually a waiting period?
I’d also be curious to know if there were any other boats that had issues or damage during these “storms”.

 

[JohnEasley]

I can’t imagine they would cover it...isn’t there usually a waiting period?
I’d also be curious to know if there were any other boats that had issues or damage during these “storms”.

Typically, there isn't a waiting period. An agent "binds" the policy and then Underwriting will review the details to confirm they're accepting the risk and terms. Often all of that can be completed in 24 or so hours.

This guy's claim would be considered "loss on new business." That's a universal red flag. Since his company states they are "reviewing the claim," it's likely in committee to see if they want to rescind the policy and refund the premium.

A beer says they'll back out of the policy. It'll be interesting to see if they refer this to the state fraud bureau.

 

[Rain Dog]

Marine insurance is so terrible. I have been waiting for some company to realize they can make a killing by selling insurance at lower rates to responsible boat owners. Marine insurance does not seem to have even a basic interest in evaluating risk. That seems insane to me when you sell insurance.

 

[Pau Hana]

If this is not allowed, please delete.
Thought it would be a good discussion on insurance, boat ownership responsibility, squatting, etc.
Squatting and insurance fraud in Jupiter, FL?
This was posted elsewhere.



“Here's the time line:

Thur 4/18 pm: to my knowledge my boat is is out anchored and floating(im in NC 700 miles away on family emergency)

Fri 10am: i call and purchase progressive insurance effective immediately because i hear storms are coming, and tell them im concerned thats why im buying the policy.
(only had the boat less than a month, had not registeted or bought ins yet had 30 days, so titled it only in my name)

Fri Pm/sun am: my boat is evidently driven by the storms and beached.

SATERDAY PM a friend checks on my boat, sends me this photo and tells me boat is beached.

SUNAY AM: I file claim (just wanting it towed out and reanchored, ('sign/glide)

SUNDAY 10:00pm jupiter marine police issue me citation for $145 in fines (that i receive today 4-24)

During this time 'progressive' has not sent an adjuster yet and is still 'reviewing' to determine if it will be covered, and it has been subject to vandalism for almost a week now while they decide to cover the claim or not!

Thoughts/opinions please

Wednesday i call progressive adjuster and he says their 'reviewing the claim' STILL! While the boat remains subject to damage/vandalism”

For some background, Check out this guys you tube he is a squatter and it just shows he would have canceled his insurance as soon as the storm was over he is a scammer

This made me laugh- and a bit sad, because this reeks of irresponsibility.

We don't know if this is a liability only policy or includes hull coverage, nor is there enough information to make any type of informed decision.

In any case, CJE is correct- this is indeed a situation that likely generate a review for fraud. At the core, if the contract is agreed upon by both parties, then coverage should be afforded- but the insurance company has the right, and more important, the duty, to investigate for fraud.

The insuring company was notified Sunday AM, and the general response time is as soon as possible (within 24 hours). Clearly there is a concern about coverage, otherwise the claims process should have progressed further than reported.

The insured had the boat for 30 days, which is adequate time for coverage to be acquired- even if a survey was required.

No sympathy from me.

 

[Star0210]

This is what he used to live on!

 

[BandB]

And to think, this is how bad the guy looks if you believe one word he's typed, which I don't.

to my knowledge my boat is is out anchored and floating​

Then followed by him calling the following day because a storm was coming. No. Someone told him the boat had floated ashore and then he called. Storm coming? What about all the other storms over the 30 days he had owned it?

Purchased immediately? On the basis of a photo or what? How did he even describe the unregistered boat.

Then what makes him think the insurer's job is to then secure his boat and look after it and make sure no vandalism? How would they even be able to tell if it was vandalized?

He files a claim wanting it towed and re-anchored? Must have a special towing and re-anchoring clause in his policy. And no adjuster in 24 hours, oh my what a disgrace, that for his major claim there wasn't an adjuster there in minutes.

He omits telling us what he'd paid for the policy and how.

I hope he keeps calling this to the attention of many such as local law enforcement. I hope he keeps pursuing his claim. Why? Because I'd love seeing him charged with attempted insurance fraud on top of his claim denied.

Of course ticketed for failure to register would be nice too. I'm sure the only thing Jupiter police are worried about is somehow them ending up with the boat.

He's a crook. Not just a poor man with a derelict boat, but a crook.

 

[Star0210]

And to think, this is how bad the guy looks if you believe one word he's typed, which I don't.

to my knowledge my boat is is out anchored and floating​

Then followed by him calling the following day because a storm was coming. No. Someone told him the boat had floated ashore and then he called. Storm coming? What about all the other storms over the 30 days he had owned it?

Purchased immediately? On the basis of a photo or what? How did he even describe the unregistered boat.

Then what makes him think the insurer's job is to then secure his boat and look after it and make sure no vandalism? How would they even be able to tell if it was vandalized?

He files a claim wanting it towed and re-anchored? Must have a special towing and re-anchoring clause in his policy. And no adjuster in 24 hours, oh my what a disgrace, that for his major claim there wasn't an adjuster there in minutes.

He omits telling us what he'd paid for the policy and how.

I hope he keeps calling this to the attention of many such as local law enforcement. I hope he keeps pursuing his claim. Why? Because I'd love seeing him charged with attempted insurance fraud on top of his claim denied.

Of course ticketed for failure to register would be nice too. I'm sure the only thing Jupiter police are worried about is somehow them ending up with the boat.

He's a crook. Not just a poor man with a derelict boat, but a crook.

He said his first call this morning was going to be to the police to complain that his first notification about his boat being beached was a citation.

He’s been having a go fund me going to try to get money to first buy the boat and then to buy a motor.

He said he’s been “sailing” around the world for the last 6 yrs on that raft doing missionary work and says his plan, once he learns to actually sail a real sailboat, is to continue on his journey.

 

[BandB]

He said his first call this morning was going to be to the police to complain that his first notification about his boat being beached was a citation.

But Saturday night he was sent a photo and Sunday morning he filed an insurance claim, according to what he wrote. The citation wasn't issued until 10:00 PM Sunday and he didn't receive it until Wednesday. So, clearly lying again.

 

[Shrew]

The entire thing wreaks of some sort of entitlement. The story doesn't even sound logical.

1) He bought a boat, which appeared to be tied to a private dock is a canal community. He took possession 'and was asked to leave'. Who would assume that you would remain on the dock with the boat??

2) He became grounded and was towed over to a neighbors dock. (That is kind of the stranger who appears to have nothing to do with this). He is eventually asked to leave that dock because it has been leased and the leasee wants to occupy the dock.

3) He is moved across the canal to another neighbor. This neighbor sees the tarps, the state of the boat and asks him to leave as well.

It's here that he starts to talk about the lack of compassion and lack of religious morals for turning out a man in need.

4) Another neighbor tows him (gladly, I'm sure) out of the neighborhood. He is placed with what appear to be other full time residents at the mouth of the canal community.

5) He then comments that the boat owners in the canal community rip in and out on plane waking the liveaboard anchorage. (This is, unfortunately all too common. We get that a lot anywhere we anchor (and we're short time transients who don't look like a derelict boat).

 

[hfoster]

Someone needs to inform this fella that the 60s are over!

Cheers

H.

 

[Sea Word]

Marine insurance is so terrible. I have been waiting for some company to realize they can make a killing by selling insurance at lower rates to responsible boat owners. Marine insurance does not seem to have even a basic interest in evaluating risk. That seems insane to me when you sell insurance.

How would they do that?

 

[Star0210]

He just commented and said he just heard from insurance co and thinks it’s all good...that they’re going to pay.

 

[Group9]

He just commented and said he just heard from insurance co and thinks it’s all good...that they’re going to pay.

Actually, it will be the rest of us paying.

 

[Scottbwheeler]

Actually, it will be the rest of us paying.

Exactly...

 

[BandB]

He just commented and said he just heard from insurance co and thinks it’s all good...that they’re going to pay.

Probably easier for them to total his boat and pay him the $100.

Did people actually contribute to his Go Fund Me?

I would suggest they read his facebook before paying. May change their mind.

What damage does he allege?

 

[O C Diver]

This reminds me of a reality TV show. You have to look at the guy and wonder if he's 3 French fries short or a Happy Meal, delusional, or just a bad scam artist.

Ted

 

[Star0210]

Probably easier for them to total his boat and pay him the $100.

Did people actually contribute to his Go Fund Me?

I would suggest they read his facebook before paying. May change their mind.

What damage does he allege?

I don’t think anyone actually contributed.

 

[hollywood8118]

I don’t think anyone actually contributed.

Go figure


HOLLYWOOD

 

[Art]

Someone needs to inform this fella that the 60s are over!

Cheers

H.

Yo H!! Good to hear from you again.

You are correct... the 60's are over!!!

Now, we're damn near into the "New" Roaring 20's!

Back in 1919 the same was probably mentioned about the then well past 1860's. LOL

Cheers!

Art

 

[JoeyAboard]

He's trying to play the system lol just keep the insurance, better safe than sorry

 

[Rain Dog]

How would they do that?

In my area one of the main cost drivers is hurricanes. If you are in a marina that is destroyed by every hurricane or in a marina that survives every hurricane with minimal damage, you pay the same for insurance. If you leave your boat in an exposed marina or haul out for every named storm, you pay the same for insurance. From the insurance companies I have worked with, there is nothing you can do to prepare for a storm that will have any impact on your premium. IMO That encourages people to just roll the dice when a storm is approaching.

I have been through 6 hurricanes so far (in or near the cone that is) and in everyone, the majority of boats do nothing to prepare for them.

I would like to see an insurance company require a written hurricane plan, require photos or video of how the boat is secured before the storm, and only pay if the boat is prepared properly according to the plan.

 

[BandB]

In my area one of the main cost drivers is hurricanes. If you are in a marina that is destroyed by every hurricane or in a marina that survives every hurricane with minimal damage, you pay the same for insurance. If you leave your boat in an exposed marina or haul out for every named storm, you pay the same for insurance. From the insurance companies I have worked with, there is nothing you can do to prepare for a storm that will have any impact on your premium. IMO That encourages people to just roll the dice when a storm is approaching.

I have been through 6 hurricanes so far (in or near the cone that is) and in everyone, the majority of boats do nothing to prepare for them.

I would like to see an insurance company require a written hurricane plan, require photos or video of how the boat is secured before the storm, and only pay if the boat is prepared properly according to the plan.

I know of very few people who roll the dice as you say. We follow our plan as our plan lists many things we may do and also makes it clear we may do none of them. However, the real preparation for a hurricane isn't made in a panicked rush the two or three days before. It's also not made by everyone choosing the same solution. I see haul out hailed as the one and only answer but can show you thousands of cases where it only increased the risk. I see moving north but can show you examples where that was a poor risk. I think of the boats hauled out in New Bern NC last year. Location and hauled out, and tremendous damage. There are very few good haul out facilities and there are no safe coastal locations.

We're in one of the safest situations, in the water, in Fort Lauderdale. The statistics support that but people keep swearing we should be doing something else. As far as preparation, we are always tied as if a hurricane is coming and we're in a marina built for maximum protection. We simply check things prior to an approaching hurricane and if we see additional things that might benefit, we do so. Same thing with our house. Built and maintained to Miami Dade 150 mph standards. That includes the roof and the windows and doors. Also, we are right on the water, but to the shock of many, we're above the maximum 100 year flood level by several feet. We have many retail stores in the three counties of South Florida and we have roll up shutters on all those, primarily to protect against flying debris. We also protect against flooding.

Risk management isn't all about last minute actions but planning far ahead. For instance, I remember in the early days of my career all the money we spent in warehouses to have nothing sitting on the floor. You have a concrete floor, why do you need a bottom shelf? Simple, to protect against flooding. Flooding from storms, plumbing, and even sprinklers. That's an additional shelf on every rack in a 200,000 square foot warehouse plus the loss of a few inches height. The insurers were the leaders in that requirement though.

I think the majority of people do what they feel is reasonable under the circumstances. It may work or may not. Fortunately, they don't choose to risk their lives to save their property.

 

[Rain Dog]

However, the real preparation for a hurricane isn't made in a panicked rush the two or three days before... Risk management isn't all about last minute actions but planning far ahead.

That is exactly my point. Insurance companies should require people to have a written plan before hurricane season starts and then execute that plan.

I see haul out hailed as the one and only answer but can show you thousands of cases where it only increased the risk. I see moving north but can show you examples where that was a poor risk. I think of the boats hauled out in New Bern NC last year. Location and hauled out, and tremendous damage. There are very few good haulout facilities and there are no safe coastal locations.

I don't think there is any one correct plan, but I 100% think having a plan is better than not having a plan.

I have been in Marinas where my plan is to secure the boat in the Marina. However, you still need a plan that includes chafe protection, stripping the boat, etc. Just leaving your boat there with the bimini up, 4 old lines, and no chafe protection does not count as a plan IMO. If you do that and your boat is destroyed I don't want to pay for it.

I have also been in Marinas where my plan is to anchor out, but it still requires having a protect spot selected, having a way to get to shore, having adequate chafe protection, stripping the boat, etc. If you pull your boat out into the bay, drop the anchor, and leave (as I have seen many people do), I don't want to pay for it.

I know of very few people who roll the dice as you say.

I am glad people are more responsible in your area. I wish I could say the same for the places I have lived.

Here is my current marina after the last hurricane to hit here (Cat 3).

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/4849/pensacola-florida-after-hurricane-ivan

No boat should be in this marina for a Hurricane. It is guaranteed to be completely destroyed by almost any hurricane. If these boats had a plan, they would not have been here. I would have no problem with an insurance company that refused to pay for any of these claims on the grounds that they should not have been here in the first place.

 

[BandB]

That is exactly my point. Insurance companies should require people to have a written plan before hurricane season starts and then execute that plan.



I don't think there is any one correct plan, but I 100% think having a plan is better than not having a plan.

I have been in Marinas where my plan is to secure the boat in the Marina. However, you still need a plan that includes chafe protection, stripping the boat, etc. Just leaving your boat there with the bimini up, 4 old lines, and no chafe protection does not count as a plan IMO. If you do that and your boat is destroyed I don't want to pay for it.

I have also been in Marinas where my plan is to anchor out, but it still requires having a protect spot selected, having a way to get to shore, having adequate chafe protection, stripping the boat, etc. If you pull your boat out into the bay, drop the anchor, and leave (as I have seen many people do), I don't want to pay for it.



I am glad people are more responsible in your area. I wish I could say the same for the places I have lived.

Here is my current marina after the last hurricane to hit here (Cat 3).

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/4849/pensacola-florida-after-hurricane-ivan

No boat should be in this marina for a Hurricane. It is guaranteed to be completely destroyed by almost any hurricane. If these boats had a plan, they would not have been here. I would have no problem with an insurance company that refused to pay for any of these claims on the grounds that they should not have been here in the first place.

I respectfully disagree with many of your conclusions. First, you're citing a hurricane 15 years ago so I really cannot speak to it. However, to make a blanket statement than none of those boats should have been there assumes that they all had other places they could have gone and they all could have done so safely, plus assumes they didn't have family on land to worry about and take care of.

I think requiring the execution of any specific written plan would be extremely unwise and could lead to deaths and even greater destruction. Sometimes the solution is worse than the situation. Now, in most cases, I'd criticize just leaving the bimini up and four old lines and no chafe protection, but then I don't know what other priorities that owner may have had. In general, I think having old lines, no chafe protection, and bimini up is wrong and not just with an approaching hurricane.

I also believe in higher building standards and find it extremely unfortunate that so many areas still require so little and I believe in higher standards for marinas.

There are not enough reasonable options of places to move or haul outs or anything else for everyone to use one. Just the number of boats precludes it.

 

[Rondalw1]

Sorry, but wait until last minute to get insurance? Not right.

 

[Star0210]

His latest post....��

A couple days ago I posted in this group the following situation regarding a boat insurance claim I had filed.
Im not familiar with 'marine insurance' but somewhat with standard vehicle insurance.
The post was mostly to ask- 'am i missing something here as to how this process works?' Because its not what I expected.

(Nor when i posted it did i expect to open a sesspool of nasty arrogant puffed up ppl which im still trying to believe are in the minority of boat owners �&#56596

To my surprise I received many offensive comments bashing me as a scammer and worse.
My opinion on those? You dont even know me and probably didnt even bother to try- and judge me as a low life 'ragbagger' as some said.
Do i need to justify myself here?
Let me say this not to brag- I know that over the past six years of my what turned out to be a 'missionary journey' living as cheaply as I could on my homemade houseboat- I gave away FAR more to help others than what I received in support- probably well over 50% of my own pension to help and bless others- most of the rest into the boat itself.
So those that 'rush to judgement' please tell me how much you'v done to help the disadvantaged?
I believe that God helped me to borrow what I didnt have to get a conventional sail boat upon returning to the states to continue that ministry possibly now down into Mexico and south America soon.
Did i ask a dime of you?
Was i 'scamming' the insurance company when I was honest that I was buying it out of concern for a coming storm my sister in Florida called me about- and the agent said thats not a problem- and said the policy will be effective immediately with your payment- and encouraged me to buy it?
I had to compliment my facebook friends in my personal account for their concern, love and appreciation over these years after the hurt of the comments from this and another boat group.
And btw, much gratitude to those which without trashing me tried to give helpful suggestions and especially to a few from the Jupiter area who PM'd me saying they would check on it and see if there was anything they could do to help.

My previous post:

"Here's the time line:
Thur 4/18 pm: to my knowledge my boat is out anchored and floating- (Im in NC because of a family emergency)

Fri 10am: i call and purchase progressive insurance and salesman assures me its 'effective immediately' because my sister in Florida had called and warnes me storms are comingand- i even tell the agent im concerned thats why im wanting to buy the policy- and he encourages me to do so.
(only had the boat less than a month, had not registeted or bought insurance yet and had 30 days to that (out of nexts months pension) so only titled it only in my name)

Fri Pm/sun am: my boat is evidently driven by the storms and beached.

SATERDAY PM a friend checks on my boat, sends me this photo and tells me boat is beached.

SUNAY AM: I file claim (just wanting it towed out and reanchored, ('sign/glide)

SUNDAY 10:00pm jupiter marine police issue me citation for $145 in fines (that i receive today 4-24)

During this time 'progressive' has not sent an adjuster yet and is still 'reviewing' to determine if it will be covered, and it has been subject to vandalism for almost a week now while they decide to cover the claim or not.

Wednesday 4-24: I call progressive adjuster and he says their still 'reviewing the claim'
(Currently checking on a tow service)

Thoughts/opinions please"