Solar panels -25% over 5 Months.

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
I have to laugh when an article says "price of this item will never increase again". Glad to hear the price is dropping, but improved efficiency has no control over raw material costs, labor, and demand.

Ted
 
You don't see that 25% reduction in online panel sales prices. They still are $.90-1.00 per watt for individual panels and maybe 10% less for pallet sales.


That article seemed to talk more about power production costs from large solar arrays, not individual panel prices. Power costs are strongly influenced by construction costs, government subsidies and interest rates as well as the cost of the panels.


David
 
Last edited:
O C Diver said:
I have to laugh when an article says "price of this item will never increase again". Glad to hear the price is dropping, but improved efficiency has no control over raw material costs, labor, and demand.

Ted
Click to expand...

... A bit like $100 barrel oil would never ever ever drop below that price. Lol.
 
djmarchand said:
You don't see that 25% reduction in online panel sales prices. They still are $.90-1.00 per watt for individual panels and maybe 10% less for pallet sales.


That article seemed to talk more about power production costs from large solar arrays, not individual panel prices. Power costs are strongly influenced by construction costs, government subsidies and interest rates as well as the cost of the panels.


David
Click to expand...

There is little doubt that the Chinese are subsidising the production costs which would make one think that maybe now is the time to buy before the whole Chinese economy falls over a cliff; first signs of stress in their debt ridden financial system are clearly visable for the first time.
 
." A bit like $100 barrel oil would never ever ever drop below that price. Lol."

I'm still wondering , what ever happened to PEAK OIL ?
 
FF said:
." A bit like $100 barrel oil would never ever ever drop below that price. Lol."

I'm still wondering , what ever happened to PEAK OIL ?
Click to expand...

I love the way technology can short circuit the old dirty industries ; one minute they are gold mines, the next mintue there's a big question mark over them.

I think TV as we know it will have disappeared in the next 5 years as everyone gets their content streamed online; even the BBC which was considered the Rolls Royce of broadcasters is putting on endless drivel, some nights thereis just the news and a current affairs programme that's watchable, and to think they get £3bn a year in funding. :(
 
Rustybarge said:
I love the way technology can short circuit the old dirty industries ; one minute they are gold mines, the next mintue there's a big question mark over them.

:(
Click to expand...

Solar alone cannot eliminate fossil fuel power generation for a variety of reasons.

The simple fact is that until they figure out a way to store large amounts of energy during the times when the sun is not available, you will still need generator units that you can start up and run when you need them.

Wind is even worse. A big secret that the wind energy advocates don't want to talk about is the unreliability of wind to produce power constantly, even when wind is predicted to be "good" that day.

This requires power companies to keep extra units online, in reserve in case the wind dies down quickly. We call this "spin" or "spinning reserve". In plain terms this is generation capacity that is online and running but is not being used. The problem with "spin" is that turbine generators are very inefficient if not running at their rated capacity.
 
But tidal flow is pretty constant. And river current is pretty constant. Why hasn't there been more development in these areas?
 
ksanders said:
Solar alone cannot eliminate fossil fuel power generation for a variety of reasons.

The simple fact is that until they figure out a way to store large amounts of energy during the times when the sun is not available, you will still need generator units that you can start up and run when you need them.

Wind is even worse. A big secret that the wind energy advocates don't want to talk about is the unreliability of wind to produce power constantly, even when wind is predicted to be "good" that day.

This requires power companies to keep extra units online, in reserve in case the wind dies down quickly. We call this "spin" or "spinning reserve". In plain terms this is generation capacity that is online and running but is not being used. The problem with "spin" is that turbine generators are very inefficient if not running at their rated capacity.
Click to expand...

Of course they are now advocating nuclear as super-clean-zero-carbon way of generation in tandem with wind and solar. The advantage is that the nucular can remain on high output 24/7 without creating global warming, and the alternative green sources can chip in when the conditions are perfect .
 
FF said:
." A bit like $100 barrel oil would never ever ever drop below that price. Lol."

I'm still wondering , what ever happened to PEAK OIL ?
Click to expand...

We encounter it every time there's a new field/discovery! :rofl:
 
folivier said:
But tidal flow is pretty constant. And river current is pretty constant. Why hasn't there been more development in these areas?
Click to expand...

Scotland has a lot of hydo and wind power and was totally self sufficient on green energy last month for the first time. :)
 
folivier said:
But tidal flow is pretty constant. And river current is pretty constant. Why hasn't there been more development in these areas?
Click to expand...

Well, there are lots of hydropower plants that are fed by rivers. It takes a dam to feed a power plant and money to build it and available sites and environmental politics means there won't be many more of these built, at least in the US.

Tidal flow- Although there are big height variations in some areas, it takes a lot of water to produce decent power, so the facility required is very big and very expensive. Plus NIMBY politics limits these.

David
 
folivier said:
But tidal flow is pretty constant. And river current is pretty constant. Why hasn't there been more development in these areas?
Click to expand...

For a while there was some research into trying a tidal project in the Tacoma Narrows. Eventually they determined that it would not be viable (not sure why). This is in a spot with a huge volume of water that moves back and forth at up to 5 knots each day.

Energy storage is the primary issue as was mentioned. I am not an engineer, but I have always wondered about a simple way to store energy. If you have excess wind or solar energy in a home system, would it be possible to simply convert that to potential energy by using a motor to raise a weight, pump water up hill, or get a large mass spinning? Then it would be a matter of bleeding off that energy and converting it back to electric energy. It wouldn't be terribly efficient, but it would be done with excess wind or solar which may go unused anyway. I am sure there must be some very simple reason why it couldn't work, but I have wondered....
 
Pumped water energy storage, where you pump water uphill to a reservoir using excess power and then use that water's head to generate power when you need it, isn't very common, but it is done in some places.


David
 
sdowney717 said:
Why Apache’s Latest Oil Find Is Such A Game Changer | OilPrice.com

Another big oil find, 3 billion barrels in an unlikely place.
Oil is not a fossil fuel, google abiotic oil. If the earth continually makes oil, then oil will always be in plentiful supply.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that link, I never knew that they were fracking old depleted wells and oil fields to extract more oil, here in the Uk its going to be brand new sites.

The article didn't make clear Which area the new Apache oil finds are in?
 
folivier said:
But tidal flow is pretty constant. And river current is pretty constant. Why hasn't there been more development in these areas?
Click to expand...


Because the power corporations don't want to promote something that doesn't help their bottom line.
 
"Because the power corporations don't want to promote something that doesn't help their bottom line."

SELLING power is the business , where the power comes from doesn't matter .

Every sale "helps the bottom line".
 
Rustybarge said:
... A bit like $100 barrel oil would never ever ever drop below that price. Lol.
Click to expand...

I well remember when FF was saying a few years ago that oil could well drop from +$100 to below $50. He was literally laughed off TF.

So what are the price drivers for panels? Labor, materials, capital recovery and necessary % profit. Other than inflation, my guess is panels will emulate the battery pricing regime of the last century - dirt cheap.
 
FF said:
"Because the power corporations don't want to promote something that doesn't help their bottom line."

SELLING power is the business , where the power comes from doesn't matter .

Every sale "helps the bottom line".
Click to expand...


That's only part of the business. The power corporations both sell AND make the power. And they want to control both aspects. The delivery (paying for the wires, towers and transformers) is now a separate part of the power bill.
 
sunchaser said:
I well remember when FF was saying a few years ago that oil could well drop from +$100 to below $50. He was literally laughed off TF.

So what are the price drivers for panels? Labor, materials, capital recovery and necessary % profit. Other than inflation, my guess is panels will emulate the battery pricing regime of the last century - dirt cheap.
Click to expand...

That's why the German manufacturers are spitting teeth, and want tariffs on Chinese imports; I remember reading an article where they estimated that there was a 50% subsidy , which is illigal under European rules.
 
My son in law had a solar install company. He gave me a 270watt panel. I have to research how this can be used on the boat. One panel for 270 watts!
 
cappy208 said:
My son in law had a solar install company. He gave me a 270watt panel. I have to research how this can be used on the boat. One panel for 270 watts!
Click to expand...

How many Amps charge would you expect on a sunny day approx?
 
ksanders said:
Solar alone cannot eliminate fossil fuel power generation for a variety of reasons.

The simple fact is that until they figure out a way to store large amounts of energy during the times when the sun is not available, you will still need generator units that you can start up and run when you need them.
.
Click to expand...

I think the biggest reason is that there is little incentive for the power companies and utilities to invest in serious R&D to develop efficient energy storage.

If every building was to install a Tesla battery, market forces would drive battery innovation very quickly for batteries to become much more efficient and cost effective.

If power utilities invested in technologies like molten salt storage similar innovation would happen. Molten Salt Energy Storage — SolarReserve

Whist many individuals can see the benefits, society as a whole had decided that cheap is better, no matter what the cost!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Marco Flamingo
My new bifacial solar panel
Replies
7
Views
2K
Marco Flamingo
Marco Flamingo
Delfin
Electric Bike Review
Replies
23
Views
2K
Nepidae
Nepidae
mvweebles
5-mos Cruising Pacific Mexico Q&A
Replies
11
Views
1K
PNW
PNW
S
Interest in touch panel ?
Replies
16
Views
2K
STB
S
C
Generator runs fine but no AC current flow?
Replies
10
Views
901
Steve1.0
Steve1.0

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom