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Old 09-27-2016, 07:34 AM   #1
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Solar panels -25% over 5 Months.

https://electrek.co/2016/09/26/solar...ncrease-again/

Any sign in the retail solar panel prices yet?
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Old 09-27-2016, 08:04 AM   #2
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I have to laugh when an article says "price of this item will never increase again". Glad to hear the price is dropping, but improved efficiency has no control over raw material costs, labor, and demand.

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Old 09-27-2016, 09:37 AM   #3
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You don't see that 25% reduction in online panel sales prices. They still are $.90-1.00 per watt for individual panels and maybe 10% less for pallet sales.


That article seemed to talk more about power production costs from large solar arrays, not individual panel prices. Power costs are strongly influenced by construction costs, government subsidies and interest rates as well as the cost of the panels.


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Old 09-27-2016, 09:48 AM   #4
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I have to laugh when an article says "price of this item will never increase again". Glad to hear the price is dropping, but improved efficiency has no control over raw material costs, labor, and demand.

Ted
... A bit like $100 barrel oil would never ever ever drop below that price. Lol.
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Old 09-27-2016, 09:51 AM   #5
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You don't see that 25% reduction in online panel sales prices. They still are $.90-1.00 per watt for individual panels and maybe 10% less for pallet sales.


That article seemed to talk more about power production costs from large solar arrays, not individual panel prices. Power costs are strongly influenced by construction costs, government subsidies and interest rates as well as the cost of the panels.


David
There is little doubt that the Chinese are subsidising the production costs which would make one think that maybe now is the time to buy before the whole Chinese economy falls over a cliff; first signs of stress in their debt ridden financial system are clearly visable for the first time.
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Old 09-27-2016, 10:01 AM   #6
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." A bit like $100 barrel oil would never ever ever drop below that price. Lol."

I'm still wondering , what ever happened to PEAK OIL ?
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Old 09-27-2016, 10:27 AM   #7
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." A bit like $100 barrel oil would never ever ever drop below that price. Lol."

I'm still wondering , what ever happened to PEAK OIL ?
I love the way technology can short circuit the old dirty industries ; one minute they are gold mines, the next mintue there's a big question mark over them.

I think TV as we know it will have disappeared in the next 5 years as everyone gets their content streamed online; even the BBC which was considered the Rolls Royce of broadcasters is putting on endless drivel, some nights thereis just the news and a current affairs programme that's watchable, and to think they get £3bn a year in funding.
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Old 09-27-2016, 11:14 AM   #8
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I love the way technology can short circuit the old dirty industries ; one minute they are gold mines, the next mintue there's a big question mark over them.

Solar alone cannot eliminate fossil fuel power generation for a variety of reasons.

The simple fact is that until they figure out a way to store large amounts of energy during the times when the sun is not available, you will still need generator units that you can start up and run when you need them.

Wind is even worse. A big secret that the wind energy advocates don't want to talk about is the unreliability of wind to produce power constantly, even when wind is predicted to be "good" that day.

This requires power companies to keep extra units online, in reserve in case the wind dies down quickly. We call this "spin" or "spinning reserve". In plain terms this is generation capacity that is online and running but is not being used. The problem with "spin" is that turbine generators are very inefficient if not running at their rated capacity.
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Old 09-27-2016, 12:14 PM   #9
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But tidal flow is pretty constant. And river current is pretty constant. Why hasn't there been more development in these areas?
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Old 09-27-2016, 12:59 PM   #10
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Solar alone cannot eliminate fossil fuel power generation for a variety of reasons.

The simple fact is that until they figure out a way to store large amounts of energy during the times when the sun is not available, you will still need generator units that you can start up and run when you need them.

Wind is even worse. A big secret that the wind energy advocates don't want to talk about is the unreliability of wind to produce power constantly, even when wind is predicted to be "good" that day.

This requires power companies to keep extra units online, in reserve in case the wind dies down quickly. We call this "spin" or "spinning reserve". In plain terms this is generation capacity that is online and running but is not being used. The problem with "spin" is that turbine generators are very inefficient if not running at their rated capacity.
Of course they are now advocating nuclear as super-clean-zero-carbon way of generation in tandem with wind and solar. The advantage is that the nucular can remain on high output 24/7 without creating global warming, and the alternative green sources can chip in when the conditions are perfect .
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Old 09-27-2016, 12:59 PM   #11
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." A bit like $100 barrel oil would never ever ever drop below that price. Lol."

I'm still wondering , what ever happened to PEAK OIL ?
We encounter it every time there's a new field/discovery!
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Old 09-27-2016, 01:01 PM   #12
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But tidal flow is pretty constant. And river current is pretty constant. Why hasn't there been more development in these areas?
Scotland has a lot of hydo and wind power and was totally self sufficient on green energy last month for the first time.
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Old 09-27-2016, 01:05 PM   #13
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But tidal flow is pretty constant. And river current is pretty constant. Why hasn't there been more development in these areas?
Well, there are lots of hydropower plants that are fed by rivers. It takes a dam to feed a power plant and money to build it and available sites and environmental politics means there won't be many more of these built, at least in the US.

Tidal flow- Although there are big height variations in some areas, it takes a lot of water to produce decent power, so the facility required is very big and very expensive. Plus NIMBY politics limits these.

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Old 09-27-2016, 01:32 PM   #14
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But tidal flow is pretty constant. And river current is pretty constant. Why hasn't there been more development in these areas?
For a while there was some research into trying a tidal project in the Tacoma Narrows. Eventually they determined that it would not be viable (not sure why). This is in a spot with a huge volume of water that moves back and forth at up to 5 knots each day.

Energy storage is the primary issue as was mentioned. I am not an engineer, but I have always wondered about a simple way to store energy. If you have excess wind or solar energy in a home system, would it be possible to simply convert that to potential energy by using a motor to raise a weight, pump water up hill, or get a large mass spinning? Then it would be a matter of bleeding off that energy and converting it back to electric energy. It wouldn't be terribly efficient, but it would be done with excess wind or solar which may go unused anyway. I am sure there must be some very simple reason why it couldn't work, but I have wondered....
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Old 09-27-2016, 03:42 PM   #15
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Pumped water energy storage, where you pump water uphill to a reservoir using excess power and then use that water's head to generate power when you need it, isn't very common, but it is done in some places.


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Old 09-27-2016, 04:27 PM   #16
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Why Apacheā€™s Latest Oil Find Is Such A Game Changer | OilPrice.com

Another big oil find, 3 billion barrels in an unlikely place.
Oil is not a fossil fuel, google abiotic oil. If the earth continually makes oil, then oil will always be in plentiful supply.
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Old 09-28-2016, 04:09 AM   #17
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Why Apacheā€™s Latest Oil Find Is Such A Game Changer | OilPrice.com

Another big oil find, 3 billion barrels in an unlikely place.
Oil is not a fossil fuel, google abiotic oil. If the earth continually makes oil, then oil will always be in plentiful supply.
Thanks for that link, I never knew that they were fracking old depleted wells and oil fields to extract more oil, here in the Uk its going to be brand new sites.

The article didn't make clear Which area the new Apache oil finds are in?
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Old 09-28-2016, 04:13 AM   #18
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Pumped water energy storage, where you pump water uphill to a reservoir using excess power and then use that water's head to generate power when you need it, isn't very common, but it is done in some places.


David
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruachan_Power_Station
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Old 09-28-2016, 05:03 AM   #19
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But tidal flow is pretty constant. And river current is pretty constant. Why hasn't there been more development in these areas?

Because the power corporations don't want to promote something that doesn't help their bottom line.
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Old 09-28-2016, 05:16 AM   #20
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"Because the power corporations don't want to promote something that doesn't help their bottom line."

SELLING power is the business , where the power comes from doesn't matter .

Every sale "helps the bottom line".
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