Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-14-2017, 07:26 AM   #1
Veteran Member
 
City: Boca Raton
Vessel Name: Kokomo
Vessel Model: Hatteras LRC 48
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 60
Smelly Raritan Toilets with ElectraScan

Hi Guys:

I have new Raritan Vortex Atlantes Toilets connected to a new Raritan ElectraScan. After sitting for a few hours and flushing again, the smell is like low tide. Raritan and the marine plumber who sold and installed the equipment says sea grass got inside and it dries out and then when salt water is introduced again it makes it smell. The immediate fix is to remove the bowls to the dock, turn them upside down and give them an acid bath to kill the sea grass. FYI I disconnected the ElectraScan and tried a 50/50 water/bleach solution up to the rim, let it sit for an hour and it had no affect.

Raritan says to add a 20 mesh screen, and a KO2 kit which is a chemical induction tank to "Knock Out" odors. My plumber (authorized Raritan dealer in Palm Beach County, FL) says that it won't work and to convert the toilets to fresh water and add salt tanks to continue operating the new ElectraScan. The problem with the salt tanks according to Raritan is that using fresh water they are only good for "approximately 15 flushes" which means 10 to 12, which means every couple of days I have to lug a 5 gallon pale of salt water slurry down the spiral stairs to fill up two salt tanks which would make ultimately make a huge mess and me a slave to my own s**t. Certainly there has to be a better solution. Any ideas? Thanks.

Jim
MV Kokomo
48 Hatteras LRC
Laying Marsh Harbour
__________________
Advertisement

jfelds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 08:16 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
mixman's Avatar
 
City: Baltimore
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Deuce
Vessel Model: Motorcat MC30
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 121
To clarify you've got Atlantes Freedom heads (how many?) going to an Electroscan, correct? Do you have a holding tank too (with the Hold N'Treat system) or just the Type I (Electroscan) MSD? The boat is currently in the Abacos?

Yes, the salt feed system is a PITA and you should avoid that option IMO. At a list price of $185 you may want to give that KO2 system a try as the other option will be much more expensive. What will control sea grass and other raw water odors is going with fresh water flush and a Purasan Type I MSD over the Electroscan. Yes, the Purasan does take chemical tablets but they last quite a while.
__________________

__________________
--Kurt
2002 Motorcat MC30 "Deuce"
18 knot cruise at 7gph real-time rate.
Gulfstar 36 MKII - 1976 - Work in progress
mixman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 08:31 AM   #3
Guru
 
HeadMistress's Avatar


 
City: AR
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,630
It's can't be Raritan factory tech support that's giving you so much bad advice, it has to the local dealer.

The source or your odor may or may not be eel grass caught in the system... Sea water is loaded with both animal and vegetable micro (and not so micro) organisms that when left to sit in the toilet intake, die decay and stink. If it is eel grass, it's far more likely to be caught somewhere way before the bowl and you'll most likely see black flecks in the flush water. But filling the bowls to the rim accomplished nothing because anything that actually made it to the bowl wouldn't be IN the bowl, it would be in the channel IN the rim of the bowl, not the bowl itself...which is why you were advised to remove the bowls and put them on the dock upside down. That's the only way any cleaning solution could remain in that channel. It's far more likely, however, that your issue is simply stagnant sea water. In which case, since your toilet is actually designed to use onboard pressurized fresh water (flushing with sea water requires adding a remote intake pump), "converting it back" to use fresh water may be the best solution. You would need a salt tank, but your Raritan dealer again gave you bad information: You would not use the 2 gallon brine tank with your toilet...you'd use the 4 gallon salt tank with pump 4 gal salt feed tank w pump owners manual that you load with 10 lbs of rock salt (solar salt, available from hardware stores) and which lasts at least a couple hundred flushes.

So here's what I'd do: Turn off the ElectroScan...disconnect the toilet intake line from the thru-hull (Close the seacock first!!)...stick that end of it into gallon jug of a product called Sew Clean (which Raritan also sells under their private label brand name as "C.H" and is used to clean the electrode pack in your ElectroScan ElectroScan owners manual , so it won't hurt the ES as long as it doesn't run during this) ...flush till you see it coming into the bowl--about a quart of it--and then follow the Sew Clean directions for how long to let it sit and flushing it out. And then, I'd "convert" the toilet to use pressurized fresh water and install the correct salt tank.

You're welcome to contact me directly if you need to discuss in more detail than is practical in a forum discussion.

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein
__________________
2019 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
HeadMistress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 08:54 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
mixman's Avatar
 
City: Baltimore
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Deuce
Vessel Model: Motorcat MC30
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 121
One more point I missed: Wait for Peggie to reply :-)

Peggie - I have one of those salt feed tanks in my garage (next to the Electroscan I removed). I found it went though a heck of a lot of salt. It has been a while but I remember topping the salt off after about a dozen Electroscan cycles. Vic would have me clean the electrodes with no improvement. I even replaced the electrodes with no improvement. For me the solution was going with the Purasan.
__________________
--Kurt
2002 Motorcat MC30 "Deuce"
18 knot cruise at 7gph real-time rate.
Gulfstar 36 MKII - 1976 - Work in progress
mixman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 09:10 AM   #5
Veteran Member
 
City: Boca Raton
Vessel Name: Kokomo
Vessel Model: Hatteras LRC 48
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 60
Smelly Raritan Toilets with ElectraScan

Hi Mixman and Head Mistress:

Thanks for the quick responses. To clarify a few things:

1. We have two toilets plumbed into one basic ElectraScan unit. To my knowledge it is basic without any other holding tank option from Raritan. Of course we have a normal 70 gallon holding tank which is functional. The ElectraScan is plumbed to either go overboard or to the holding tank.

2. Yes we are currently in the Abacos heading back to Jupiter FL on or before June 1 for three weeks.

3. We are full time cruisers so water doesn't stagnate for very long. Longest period is overnight.

4. It was Raritan engineer who offered solution of 20 mesh screen and KO system. The plumber said that was bad idea and wouldn't work.

5. We do sometimes see black flecks especially when I clean the bowls with CP cleaner and brush the rim as best as possible.

6. To my knowledge I do NOT have a remote intake pump. The prior system was a DIY system from previous owner which was original (or very old) Galley Made toilets which had a remote pump and a remote macerator pump which then connected to the ElectraScan. They didn't smell but we had problems and plumber sold me new bowls. Again, toilets functionality is fine but the odor is ugly.

Head Mistress: If it IS eel grass, would your solution remain the same? Your solution sounds great to me but why do you think Mixman had problems with your solution?

Thanks to both of you for the vibrant discussion!

Jim
jfelds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 09:26 AM   #6
Guru
 
HeadMistress's Avatar


 
City: AR
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,630
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixman View Post
One more point I missed: Wait for Peggie to reply :-)

Peggie - I have one of those salt feed tanks in my garage (next to the Electroscan I removed). I found it went though a heck of a lot of salt. It has been a while but I remember topping the salt off after about a dozen Electroscan cycles. Vic would have me clean the electrodes with no improvement. I even replaced the electrodes with no improvement. For me the solution was going with the Purasan.
Your problem wasn't in the E/S,...flush water goes through the salt tank before it goes into it I suspect the problem may have been the amount of flush water you were using...the water that goes through the salt tank, the faster the salt will be used up. Upgrading your flush panel to either the "Momentary" 3-option flush or the "Smart Flush" 4 option panel (depending on which one will work with your toilet) that lets you control the amount of flush water might have solved your problem.

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein
__________________
2019 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
HeadMistress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 09:49 AM   #7
Guru
 
HeadMistress's Avatar


 
City: AR
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,630
It was Raritan engineer who offered solution of 20 mesh screen and KO system. The plumber said that was bad idea and wouldn't work.

The plumber was wrong. In shallow waters that are teeming with animal and vegetable sea life a strainer on the toilet intake is recommended. It needs to placed as close to the thru-hull as possible and above the waterline so it can be removed to clean it easily.

To my knowledge I do NOT have a remote intake pump. The prior system was a DIY system from previous owner which was original (or very old) Galley Made toilets which had a remote pump and a remote macerator pump which then connected to the ElectraScan. They didn't smell but we had problems and plumber sold me new bowls. Again, toilets functionality is fine but the odor is ugly.

If you have an Atlantes Freedom that uses sea water, it has to have a remote intake pump...see the first page of the owners manual at the link I sent you.

We do sometimes see black flecks especially when I clean the bowls with CP cleaner and brush the rim as best as possible.

In that case, you have pulled in some animal or vegetable sea life--not necessarily eel grass...it could even a minnow that may or may not have made it into the channel in the rim of the bowl. (the nastiest, smelliest job I ever worked on was cleaning the remains of a baby octupus that had gotten trapped and died in the toilet intake line) Sew Clean used according to directions should clean it all out.

See my reply to remix. The optional "Smart Flush" panel Raritan Smart Flush manual.pdf , which offer 4 flush choices--add water to the bowl, dry flush, "low water flush" and "full flush"--can only be used with toilets that used pressurized fresh water, btw...if you do "convert" I strongly recommend you add it.

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein
__________________
2019 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
HeadMistress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 11:44 AM   #8
Guru
 
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,898
I added a small 3/4 inch strainer to the intake, has a SS fine mesh screen.
It did help. My odor was from decaying dead micro critters in the intake water.

It was simply a black plastic filter device with a screw on clear bowl.

I unscrewed the nipple on the thru-hull, screwed on the filter, screwed nipple onto the strainer.
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 01:21 PM   #9
Veteran Member
 
City: Boca Raton
Vessel Name: Kokomo
Vessel Model: Hatteras LRC 48
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 60
Smelly Raritan Toilets with ElectraScan

Peggy:

Thanks for the detail. It seems that I should first try the Sew Clean Process. If that fails, get the plumber to do an acid treatment.

Then I think I will follow SDowney's advice (thanks for chiming in) and find one of these filters he's talking about. I would much rather do this than convert to fresh water and invest in a salt tank system, although the salt tank system maybe smart anyway because we do travel in brackish water oftentimes.

SDowney: Any chance you know where I could get one of these little filters you installed? Thanks. Jim
jfelds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 01:55 PM   #10
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: ACIW
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 18,971
I as some have the Electroscan with a salt tank injection system but plumbed to outside water.

The float switch in the 4 gallon injection tank is garbage and Ksanders came up with a much better solution for cheap which I installed and haven't had an issue now in 2 years...as opposed to less than 6 months with the factory setup.

I use a 40 bag of salt a month with 2 people living aboard all day long, 365......a lot less when in very salty water and right at that when traveling from salt to fresh and back again.

2 years ago, I was using a lot more...but last year I replaced the electrodes and started getting lower usage like everyone else. The original to unit electrodes had to have been defective from the factory as they never worked well.

I don't get much of a salt marsh smell because they are being used constantly. When I dont, a flush or two and back to normal so not sure why yours is lingering.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 02:48 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
mixman's Avatar
 
City: Baltimore
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Deuce
Vessel Model: Motorcat MC30
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadMistress View Post
Your problem wasn't in the E/S,...flush water goes through the salt tank before it goes into it I suspect the problem may have been the amount of flush water you were using...the water that goes through the salt tank, the faster the salt will be used up. Upgrading your flush panel to either the "Momentary" 3-option flush or the "Smart Flush" 4 option panel (depending on which one will work with your toilet) that lets you control the amount of flush water might have solved your problem.

Peggie
It was the Hold N'Treat system so the HNT control activated the saltwater pump for the amount of time needed to bring the salinity up inside the ES unit. Who knows and it doesn't matter to me any longer. Now if I could just sell this functioning ES and salt feed... :-)
__________________
--Kurt
2002 Motorcat MC30 "Deuce"
18 knot cruise at 7gph real-time rate.
Gulfstar 36 MKII - 1976 - Work in progress
mixman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 02:56 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
mixman's Avatar
 
City: Baltimore
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Deuce
Vessel Model: Motorcat MC30
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfelds View Post

1. We have two toilets plumbed into one basic ElectraScan unit. To my knowledge it is basic without any other holding tank option from Raritan. Of course we have a normal 70 gallon holding tank which is functional. The ElectraScan is plumbed to either go overboard or to the holding tank.
It is strange to have it plumbed to go from a Type I into a Type III (holding tank). Raritan wants the discharge from a Type I (Electroscan or Purasan) to go overboard. Once it goes into a tank I believe it is no longer legal (in US inland waters at least) to discharge. The installations I've seen are either Type III (tank) first and then Type I second (Hold N'Treat) or a Y-valve that either goes to the Type I or Type III.


Quote:
Head Mistress: If it IS eel grass, would your solution remain the same? Your solution sounds great to me but why do you think Mixman had problems with your solution?
I may have been dealing with faulty electrodes. Even when I changed them out I still may have gotten a bad set. It think my salt usage in brackish water was about right. The theory Raritan had about my salt water (FL & Abacos) issues was that my electrodes were fouled with calcium. We were on vacation at the time so I wasn't about to do the acid treatment. I tried recycled Kalik but that didn't work :-)
__________________
--Kurt
2002 Motorcat MC30 "Deuce"
18 knot cruise at 7gph real-time rate.
Gulfstar 36 MKII - 1976 - Work in progress
mixman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 03:03 PM   #13
Guru
 
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,898
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfelds View Post
Peggy:

Thanks for the detail. It seems that I should first try the Sew Clean Process. If that fails, get the plumber to do an acid treatment.

Then I think I will follow SDowney's advice (thanks for chiming in) and find one of these filters he's talking about. I would much rather do this than convert to fresh water and invest in a salt tank system, although the salt tank system maybe smart anyway because we do travel in brackish water oftentimes.

SDowney: Any chance you know where I could get one of these little filters you installed? Thanks. Jim
Yes, it is SHURFLO 255-213
I went looking and have found the black one I bought exact model match.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RV-MARINE-WA...FVh93z&vxp=mtr

Now here is another same thing, 1$ less
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHURFLO-255-...3D191879536805

This one costs more, why overpay?
SHURFLO 253-220-01 3/4" RAW WATER STRAINER 50 MESH SCREEN | eBay

The one I got was $11
Called this
RV MARINE WATER PUMP STRAINER FILTER SHURFLO 255-213

Also found on Amazon. This has worked well sitting in the bilge for many years.
1/2 inch thread, male then female so easily fits inline.
https://www.amazon.com/SHURFLO-255-2.../dp/B000V2W0GE
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 03:23 PM   #14
Veteran Member
 
City: Boca Raton
Vessel Name: Kokomo
Vessel Model: Hatteras LRC 48
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 60
Smelly Raritan Toilets and ElectraScan

Thanks S Downey for all the detail on the strainers. I will acquire and install ASAP.

PSNeeld - thanks for the information on your story. Where can I get one of the float valves you are using? Thanks. Jim
jfelds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 03:53 PM   #15
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: ACIW
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 18,971
On the road with limited wifi...may try to contact via PM to Ksanders.

If I get it and can post/pm it in the next few days I will.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 04:12 PM   #16
Guru
 
City: Seaford Va on Poquoson River, VA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Old Glory
Vessel Model: 1970 Egg Harbor 37 extended salon model
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,898
I made my own salt brine tank for my LectraSan out of an old 10 gallon Igloo cooler.
Fixed a hose into the drain port and made a little filter from nylon scrunges and a little square plastic container so salt crystals stay out of the hose.
I got a 1/2 inch 12vdc plastic gravity valve off ebay.
I teed into the input raw water line with a PVC valve to adjust the salt flow.
When I activate the electric head, the electric valve opens and it mixes the brine with the bay water as the head sucks in the water.
I get lots of flushes from the salt tank.
For salt I buy the large yellow solar salt bags at the HDepot.

I installed an ammeter wired to the electrode pack, so I can monitor the current. When it is optimal, current is 18 amps for 12 vdc system.

The electric ebay valve has held up very well on the inside, all rubber and plastic except for a SS small spring and plunger, and it has not corroded. The outside did corrode having a steel frame and screws. So I cleaned it up and coated with some marine grease, been ok for years.

Here is the valve I installed Oct 2011.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-034-Grav...-/290763981675

I would never remember all these details except that my email records all my purchases.

Brine tank I made. I just dump in a bunch of salt and add water.
https://goo.gl/photos/xHP7raPc8cPiJC576
sdowney717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 06:08 PM   #17
Guru
 
HeadMistress's Avatar


 
City: AR
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,630
It is strange to have it plumbed to go from a Type I into a Type III (holding tank). Raritan wants the discharge from a Type I (Electroscan or Purasan) to go overboard. Once it goes into a tank I believe it is no longer legal (in US inland waters at least) to discharge. The installations I've seen are either Type III (tank) first and then Type I second (Hold N'Treat) or a Y-valve that either goes to the Type I or Type III.

It really doesn't matter whether waste goes directly into the tank or through the treatment device first. A lot of people send treated waste to the tank because they think treated waste is sterile (which isn't true), preventing any odor in the tank (it doesn't. And there are some people who don't know that once treated waste lands in a tank, it's no longer treated waste. And in some systems, it may be as simple as which is the more convenient location for the y-valve.

I'm not a fan of Raritan's "hold 'n' treat" package that requires everything to go into a tank before it's treated and discharged. Freedom from the need to store waste aboard and holding tank maintenance is the biggest advantage to treatment...every flush goes overboard. The only advantage to the HnT package is, you don't have to find a pumpout. Fortunately Raritan also offers just the "hold 'n' treat" controls that can retrofitted to an existing tank, and add the treatment device...which provides the means to empty the tank using the treatment device, but also lets you flush directly overboard through it. Best of both worlds!
__________________
2019 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
HeadMistress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2017, 07:11 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
mixman's Avatar
 
City: Baltimore
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Deuce
Vessel Model: Motorcat MC30
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 121
You and I have had this discussion before :-)

Quote:
It really doesn't matter whether waste goes directly into the tank or through the treatment device first.
You've lost me with this statement followed by your other comments (but, it has been a VERY long day and I'm likely brain dead!). I do not see any advantage to putting treated waste into a tank. Am I missing something?

I added the Hold N'Treat system to my powercat as it only had a tank. It is the older design that has the tank fill and then processes in batches via the Type I. From my understanding the newer Hold N'Treat systems run a Type I treatment cycle as soon as there is enough waste in the tank to do so. I'm still working on my "project" boat and grappling with your suggestion of a Y-valve to either send waste to the tank or to the Type I. My issue with the latter is that a Marine Elegance "water saver" flush is around a pint and I am concerned that would be a lot of hours/wear-n-tear on the Type I to process after every, well, #1 :-)
__________________

__________________
--Kurt
2002 Motorcat MC30 "Deuce"
18 knot cruise at 7gph real-time rate.
Gulfstar 36 MKII - 1976 - Work in progress
mixman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012