Small trawler OK to cruise PNW?

[78puget-trawler]

A few years ago Mark Bunzel, publisher of the Waggoner Guide, went from Anacortes to Ketchikan on his then 7-knot Albin 28 in 72 hours...

Pretty good. He would have to average over 8 knots an hour running 24/7.

 

[South of Heaven]

The boat (insert almost any name here) can take more than the captain.

I've had C Dorys and a Camano....both of those brands are considered small and undersized. BUT they both have taken many folks through the PNW and even up to AK.

Having an adventurous spirit does help though...

 

[RCook]

One question I have related to distance. Story says and quoted here the distance from PT to Ket at 750 miles or so? By what route would it be that far? Where do they go to add over 100 miles to the trip and why? According to the Hansen Handbook, distance from PT to Ket is 614 miles. Seattle to Ket is listed at 650 miles. What am I missing?


Is that perhaps true OTG distance traveled by electronic data?


Still having a hard time visualizing all of the constant, strong and fair winds to propel any sailboat to over an 8 knot average for 4 days.

Over several times making the trip to Ketchikan from various starting points in WA, the shortest distance I have recorded was 671nm, Anacortes to KTN. This is taking pretty much the most direct route, distance over ground recorded by GPS/chartplotter. With just a bit of poking around along the way, or starting further south than Anacortes, we easily get up to 750 or 800nm.

BTW, we are among those who have cruised SE Alaska (starting in Prince Rupert) in a C-Dory 22.

 

[Barabus]

Anything is possible in theory, there have been people who crossed the Atlantic in a 13 foot boat. For me it all depends on the crew and expectations. Water and fuel can be issues as well as space and comfort. Most will not go to Desolation without a water maker. Others, just drink beer and don't shower. Again anything is possible, my crew needs a little comfort or it will not be nice.

 

[OldDan1943]

At Seattle's TrawlerFest last year, we were told by a number of professionals and trawler owners that a trawler less than 35 feet long was too small to cruise the San Juan and Gulf Islands and into Desolation Sound --- because it would not have the tonnage needed to withstand the wind and waves we might encounter in the Strait of Juan de Fuca or even in the Vancouver roads.

Were we misinformed?

I ask because I have just read a post from a couple who own a 25' motorcruiser and are asking for cruising ground recommendations in the San Juan area. No one replied "Whoa, that boat is too small for cruising this area!"

We'd like to buy a displacement motorcruiser on which we can spend weekends and two to three weeks at a time, but we can't afford a boat over 30 feet, and would prefer one that isn't much over 28 feet.

I am grateful for all comments!

Lemme think. Was he saying the 'old' OAL or the 'new' OAL. Perhaps a reference to the WLL. The document OAL for my 2008 American Tug is 34 feet. Same hull, newer models.... now 36ft. Ask, is he including the swim platform?
I have yet to find anyone willing to sleep on the swim platform even if I promise to duct tape them to the swim platform.

Soooooo, if my 34 is too short, while adding on the swim platform makes it a 36, makes it long enough. I must conclude, it is not the length but rather, hull design and skill plus listening to the predicted weather, current weather observations and the very important but, ofter overlooked 'common sense.'

Two footnotes,
1. depends also on how much 'stuff' we put on board and the 'loading'.
It will increase your WLL
2. we are all ignoring those few inches that no one counts except the dock master when you rent a slip.

Allow me to a relate first hand true event that occurred about 20 years ago. 2 adults and one young adult guy. They were all headed down the east coast ICW. I never saw the size of the trawler but, I did see the young man in an approx 18 ft runabout making pretty good time. He told me, his parents told him, if he wanted the run-about in FL for the winter, he would have to drive it down there and he did. I assure he also drove north at the end of the season. LOL I am sure it was a great adventure for him.
He could be the advance guard, scouting the waters ahead and making the slip reservations. LOL

 

[MurrayM]

Anything is possible in theory, there have been people who crossed the Atlantic in a 13 foot boat. For me it all depends on the crew and expectations. Water and fuel can be issues as well as space and comfort. Most will not go to Desolation without a water maker. Others, just drink beer and don't shower. Again anything is possible, my crew needs a little comfort or it will not be nice.

Yup...we did six months by sea kayak and drank creek water the whole time.

One doesn't know the meaning of luxury until you have your first hot shower in two months.

 

[Camasonian]

I lived for the better part of a decade in Juneau Alaska and owned a 27’ SeaSport that I drove all over SE Alaska including several dive trips along the outer coast between Cross Sound and Sitka.

Personally one of the reasons for getting a smaller boat (aside from trailerablity) is the ability to go faster at a plane without burning obscene amounts of fuel. So I’d be reluctant to buy something that is both small and slow. At least for long distance cruising.

 

[Bryant]

Cruising small boats.

We went all over Puget Sound for 3 years in a C Dory 22 with a Honda 75 outboard. You need to be cognizant of the weather, the tides and the forecast and don’t put yourself in a position where you “Have” to be somewhere but that advice pretty much holds true to any boat and location.
A well built, well maintained boat designed for that purpose will be fine. Just keep aware. You’ll be fine.

 

[88FuHwa]

The PO of our 35 foot Fu Hwa trawler took her twice from San Francisco to the Sea of Cortez. He showed me some harrowing pictures of waves crashing up to the flybridge but he said the vessel handled very well. No risk of swamping either because of the many scuppers on either side. The other folks who responded confirmed that hull size is not always a limitation but seamanship can be.

 

[BandB]

At Seattle's TrawlerFest last year, we were told by a number of professionals and trawler owners that a trawler less than 35 feet long was too small to cruise the San Juan and Gulf Islands and into Desolation Sound --- because it would not have the tonnage needed to withstand the wind and waves we might encounter in the Strait of Juan de Fuca or even in the Vancouver roads.

Were we misinformed?

I ask because I have just read a post from a couple who own a 25' motorcruiser and are asking for cruising ground recommendations in the San Juan area. No one replied "Whoa, that boat is too small for cruising this area!"

We'd like to buy a displacement motorcruiser on which we can spend weekends and two to three weeks at a time, but we can't afford a boat over 30 feet, and would prefer one that isn't much over 28 feet.

I am grateful for all comments!

A couple of comments:

1. At shows, there are a lot of boat sales persons. While some do boat, most do very little boating. They also may steer customers based on what they sell. Not the best source of information.

2. There's a big difference in two very similar comments. I try to be very careful with wording, myself. For instance, one might say, "I wouldn't personally cruise there in anything under 35'". That is very different than saying "You shouldn't cruise there in anything under 35'." Now, a person knowledgeable of the area is going to tell you that people cruise there in every size boat imaginable. Far more small boats than large. Just walk some docks and you'll see.

3. You say a "25' motorcruiser" and a "displacement motorcruiser". I can't give you an answer. I have no idea what boat you're talking about. Tell me the boat and the experience of the person doing it and I can give better advice.

4. If you want to see a wide range of boats being used in an area, walk some marinas in the area or rent a small boat and cruise around some marinas and then watch the boats around you.

 

[SeattleJew]

At Seattle's TrawlerFest last year, we were told by a number of professionals and trawler owners that a trawler less than 35 feet long was too small to cruise the San Juan and Gulf Islands and into Desolation Sound --- because it would not have the tonnage needed to withstand the wind and waves we might encounter in the Strait of Juan de Fuca or even in the Vancouver roads.

Were we misinformed?

I ask because I have just read a post from a couple who own a 25' motorcruiser and are asking for cruising ground recommendations in the San Juan area. No one replied "Whoa, that boat is too small for cruising this area!"

We'd like to buy a displacement motorcruiser on which we can spend weekends and two to three weeks at a time, but we can't afford a boat over 30 feet, and would prefer one that isn't much over 28 feet.

I am grateful for all comments!

Utter onsnese. We have cruised these waters for 30 years in everything from a 27 ft tipsy Bayliner to a 34 ft Tolly tricabin to our current 43ft Tolly. We meet others in everything from a Kyak to .. well no limit.

 

[Spinner]

Re water makers, I would like to assure the OP that many, many people cruise to Desolation Sound (and many points further north) without one.

Good fresh water is available at Refuge Cove and Gorge Harbor. It’s not difficult to pull up anchor and go to fill up tanks. What is usually more pressing up there is the need to dump one’s holding tanks. Again, that means pulling up anchor and heading into open water for that purpose, so you might as well fill up your water tank then too...

 

[tiltrider1]

Water is actually harder to come by in the gulf islands than in Desolation Sound.

 

[SeattleJew]

Re water makers, I would like to assure the OP that many, many people cruise to Desolation Sound (and many points further north) without one.

Good fresh water is available at Refuge Cove and Gorge Harbor. It’s not difficult to pull up anchor and go to fill up tanks. What is usually more pressing up there is the need to dump one’s holding tanks. Again, that means pulling up anchor and heading into open water for that purpose, so you might as well fill up your water tank then too...

Pumping overb0ard in desolations sound is illegal! Use the pounp outs

 

[tiltrider1]

Pumping overb0ard in desolations sound is illegal! Use the pounp outs

I don’t believe Spinner said anything about dumping holding tanks in Desolation Sound.

 

[78puget-trawler]

Over several times making the trip to Ketchikan from various starting points in WA, the shortest distance I have recorded was 671nm, Anacortes to KTN. This is taking pretty much the most direct route, distance over ground recorded by GPS/chartplotter. With just a bit of poking around along the way, or starting further south than Anacortes, we easily get up to 750 or 800nm.

BTW, we are among those who have cruised SE Alaska (starting in Prince Rupert) in a C-Dory 22.

Granted, but in a race as was described earlier here, a sailboat making the trip in around 4 days aint poking around, but somehow managed to stretch a 615 mile trip (actual distance from PT to KET) into 750 and still do it averaging 8 knots for the trip.

I find that almost incredible.

 

[dhays]

Pumping overb0ard in desolations sound is illegal! Use the pounp outs

I’m aware of about 9 NDZs in the general area and yes, Desolation Sound Marine Park is a NDZ. I don’t think anyone suggested pumping out within the Desolation Sound Marine Park or any of the other NDZs.

Your recommendation to use the pumpout is fine. There are two that I’m aware of, Lund and Campbell River. So unless you know of more that I’m not aware of (very likely as I’ve only been in that area twice) most boaters will need to pump overboard legally outside the designated NDZs.

 

[NorWyn]

Just a caution on water in Desolation. We were there in September last year and Refuge had shut their taps and Squirrel has tide issues as to when you can fill.
They also had a power outage which made their water pumps inoperable.

We had to cut our trip short and head back to Lund. (we should have been more judicious on consumption - read showers)

This year in May, Refuge was just cleaning their water lines for the start of the season. They were super helpful and let us take on water but cautioned us that it was untreated and therefore not to be considered potable.

As far as pump outs go they are few and far north of Lund and east of Vancouver Island.

I stand to be corrected and would be interested in options we missed but we carry jerry cans of potable water and watch our tank supply for the head and dish washing etc. pretty carefully in that area outside peak season.

Both Desolation and the Broughtons marinas are pretty limited for supplies before June and after Labour Day. We could not even get ice in May this year in either area at Refuge, Sullivan bay or Pierre’s.

I’d be interested in others’ experience...

 

[dhays]

A small boat can cruise the area just fine, but size of fuel and water tanks can be a limiting factor. I can carry 350 gallons of water and keep thinking about a water maker for trips North.

 

[NorWyn]

A small boat can cruise the area just fine, but size of fuel and water tanks can be a limiting factor. I can carry 350 gallons of water and keep thinking about a water maker for trips North.

Agree completely. We only carry about 70 gallons of water in our tanks. Fuel has not been an issue with 132 us gallons and a 2gph burn on average.

We are trying to work out a way to take on stream water. Any suggestions are welcome!

 

[MurrayM]

We carry three 5 gallon plastic water jerry cans that we fill up at creeks (smaller streams too steep for fish or beaver dams) once the water tank is emptied.

Marinas are few and far between up here and it doesn't make sense to cut short a holiday or make a 60 mile one way trip for water. Lack of snow pack in the mountains combined with abnormally hot & dry spring/summer weather also means marinas sometimes have to shut off their water lines by mid summer.

 

[NorWyn]

We carry three 5 gallon plastic water jerry cans that we fill up at creeks (smaller streams too steep for fish or beaver dams) once the water tank is emptied.

Marinas are few and far between up here and it doesn't make sense to cut short a holiday or make a 60 mile one way trip for water. Lack of snow pack in the mountains combined with abnormally hot & dry spring/summer weather also means marinas sometimes have to shut off their water lines by mid summer.

You are making my back hurt....

 

[localboy]

Water is actually harder to come by in the gulf islands than in Desolation Sound.

I would agree, at least based on our experience. Even on Saltspring, which is a pretty large island, fresh water is treated like gold. The docks no longer have it, despite the piping existing; they are bone dry.

Just this August we ran to the local store at Ganges and bought 5 gallon jugs, 4 of them, to fill our tank. Cost was only about $10 Canadian (along with a refundable $10/bottle return fee), but it was a "chore".


Our little boat carries 23 gallons in the tank and 6 in the water heater. I have a 6 gallon water can and we use solar showers when possible. All drinking/cooking is done with bottled water. Ice is also a limiting factor for us, but two new RTIC coolers are a huge improvement; block ice can last up to a week, depending on ambient temps.

 

[Spinner]

Nope, I said “head out to open water...”.

There are no pump outs in that area at all, so pumping overboard, NOT in Desolation Sound, is legal and unfortunately the only option.

 

[Spinner]

I also have encountered limitations on water in the Gulf Islands. It has been limited on the Islands, but never in short supply on nearby Vancouver Island. I have never been turned away in Refuge or Cortes Island, Broughtons, etc.

Shearwater (N BC coast) had a problem this summer caused by the community upgrade to its water lines, but there was no shortage of water. Folks just had to carry it down to the dock in Jerry cans.

I carry 160 gallons, have had no issues, even when hosting company. Ditto on my previous boat with its 80 gallon water tank. Both boats use(d) water from the fresh water tank for flushing the head.

 

[Moby Nick]

Of all the Albin-25's remaining in North America (see mine at left), it seems that the heaviest concentration of them is in the PNW. These 25' Swedish-built SD Motor Cruisers are right at home there.

 

[OldDan1943]

IMO, the minimum length is answered by the question, "Just how much do you want to do 'camp' on your boat." We all like our creature comforts.
Remember the old sailing ships? They were short and pack tight with people and stores. No inside head, no refrigeration etc. Even the captain's cabin sucked.
Search for Mystic Seaport.... look at the sailing ships......
Remember Capt Columbus and his 3 ship fleet? Over packed with non-seagoing people, sailors, stores and water. Umm, no thank you, I'll wait for the cruise ships and airplanes. SMILE
I can see why the recommendation of greater than 35 feet, especially if the crew is more than you and your mate. LOL

 

[ghost]

A lot has changed in a relatively short period of time in the PNW. When we bought our first boat for cruising 25 years ago, a 34 foot boat was a “big one”. The docks were full of 20 to 30 foot boats and there was a lot more people overall running around, everywhere. The mom and pop marinas were still a thing and small boats had entire families on them. If we went to Victoria, we would almost always get rafted a few boats deep. Not only could you travel on smaller boats, it really was the norm.

We used a lot less water too. Without a water heater, it was damn cold with the small water tank sitting low and I didn’t have a shower anyway. I loved my 23’ single screw inboard, With it’s small cuddy, separate head and a little stove and an icebox. What we yearned for, was our next supply of fresh ice.

Today you fewer boats, with less people on them and the mom and pops are rare as you cant sell T-shirt’s to a 65 foot boat with two people on it taking the same room once serving 4 boats each with families of 4 or 5.

So yeah, a limit of 34 feet is silly and the person making that point, is acting in their own self interest. I say this as someone who single hands a 48 foot boat today. I can stomach a wider range of conditions now, but Mother Nature puts limits on everything eventually.

As far as water at Saltspring, I just filled up two weeks ago at Kanaka dock, the water is on. If Ganges Marina did not have water, it wasn’t because it was precious (water on an island should always be respected), it’s because their Marina was in shambles even 20 years ago and they likely can’t afford to fix it. The math just doesn’t work like it used to. Boy we spent many nights there in the past, that place used to get loaded to the gills with boats of every size and they would put them everywhere, every walkway filled too.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Thanks ghost,
Funny the motorhome RV people and the boaters that consider themselves cruisers are traveling in huge vessels that were rare or non-existent a short time ago. The motorhome folk think if your not traveling in a newish unit w 450hp diesel power and all the conveniences your “camping”. But it’s funny that all smaller motorhome owners refer to their activity as camping. I think it’s stupid and feel camping is something one does w a tent.

But I know how the size of the boat affects the lifestyle on the water. Our first trawler had a 17gal freshwater tank .. 25’ boat. Our present boat (30’) has 100gal of water. We’ve never run out on the 30’. The 25 was doable as it had a two pedal water pump for the sink. Left pedal for seawater and right for fresh. Washed the dishes w saltwater and rinsed w fresh. Now the water seems endless but most ports and even villages (where we like to go) have showers.

 

[Durant F]

Totally agree Willy!!
I’ve sailed all of Florida, the Keys, crossed to Bahamas and cruised the Abacos yearly since 2002 and mostly on boats 28 ft or less!
This will be my 4th run to the Broughtons shortly and Emma B is a 28ft hull.
I have a 100 gallon tank, we take short showers daily and water is never an issue between marina stops.
To think that with 350 gallons a water maker is needed is honestly beyond my comprehension. But... we all have different expectations and experience