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Old 12-06-2010, 02:28 PM   #21
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RE: Size Does Matter

KJ,
The hatteras 53 is an endearing classic that has been always well regarded and accepted in the boating world as a very good boat, adequate power, and great layout. I would not say they are under powered at all but it depends on what you want to do with it.
if you are doing a lot of diving, though I am not a diver yet myself, a boat with a cockpit is just about essential. That could be a cockpit motor yacht like the Carver RT posted or another model. The 47 POC defever is a great boat (been on a few of them)- just probably not at all what you would want for a diving boat. Most of the 47 POC's have no davit for dinghy storage, they are an aft cabin, 3 staterooms, and if there is a lower helm, there is no side door access to the foredecks at all. In the 47 POC, personally, I'd prefer that boat without the lower helm as it is, in my humble opinion, fairly useless on a practical standpoint.
So that leaves you with a cockpit style boat. Options there are either a trawler with a cockpit like the marine trader 49, the defever 49, some grand banks, etc. etc. You have to ask yourself what your primary objective is on the boat....are you wanting a slow moving trawler that won't much get over 10 knots and enjoy great fuel economy, or do you want a boat that maybe has semi-decent economy at that speed but still allows you to go 20 knots or more when you feel like burning through a tank of diesel. You may want to give a serious look at the mid/late 1980's Bayliner 4588 or the newer 1995 and up Bayliner 4788's. They get decent fuel burn at hull speed, will get up and go if you want to do that, have a cockpit suitable for diving, etc., a large bridge with a davit for a dinghy, and a great pilothouse lowerhelm.
Do you want to go fast or slow? Fuel economy important or not, Twin engine or single? Lots of factors.
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Old 12-06-2010, 02:44 PM   #22
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Size Does Matter

Our trawler is 58 ft, single 671, 6 ft draft and 40+ ton with a bow thruster and is easier to dock than most smaller boats, but it does take know the boat, practice and preparing. **Leaving the dock and when out in open water is easy.* Its the docking I still am working on as I tend to brush the dock on occasion. **Ok, routinely The main reason I can not see the dock over the 10 ft high bow that is 20 ft away, and the old eye sight is not what it use to be.* So my wife stand on the front deck giving me directions/orders like she usually does, so that not new!

Docking on the port side with the bow thruster, the port prop walk in reverse and thrusting the stern, I can almost move the boat straight to the side.* However, docking on the starboard side is a lot more difficult, but still doable.* Being the Eagle has a 6 ft draft and 40+ tons she does not move react or get blown around easily/quickly, so the is usually time to react.* We have only a Pilot house so we are close to the dock.* Step out the pilot house door, bridge gate, on to the rub rail and on to the dock.* The stern deck is level with the salon so the swim deck is just above the dock.* Makes getting on and off the boat easy.

We also watch the wind and tide coming and going.* In the summer the Thermals winds come up about 10:00 to noon and die down about 7 in the evening.* So I like to leave at 6 in the morning and try to arrive by noon as the winds and boat traffic are not up.* Also before entering a marina we set 5 fenders/side and lines so they are in easy reach.* Many times I will call a head and ask for dock assistance which is nice to have even if you do not need them.

Getting on/off the boat and being close to the dock*to single handing important when docking. *****
*

*


-- Edited by Phil Fill on Monday 6th of December 2010 04:15:22 PM

-- Edited by Phil Fill on Monday 6th of December 2010 04:15:56 PM
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Old 12-06-2010, 03:12 PM   #23
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RE: Size Does Matter

Regarding the lower helm.....the lower helm becomes less useful the bigger the boat gets....unless the builder built the lower helm with purpose(ie Pilothouse).

This is a generalization for sure but if you look at the some of the lower helms on some 4xft trawlers, it would be hard to steer down there in nothing but open water. The main reason is the site lines(parallax). You simply cannot see anything. If it is a galley down model(different issue), then the helm is behind the galley/dinette area and your face is about 20ft from the windows so your angle of site is very narrow and many times interrupted further by the bow if the boat has any sheer to it.

Regarding galley up/down.... I guess this is personal preference. But usually, when the galley is up it is up for a reason...to make more space forward of the salon. What are you gaining??? Are you gaining more space for the forward stateroom or head??? If that is the case and you are mostly cruising solo then you are salon space for nothing. Even if you have guests, accommodations up there are adequate and they will get it figured out. You don't want them to be too comfy anyway, right???...

Anyway...my .02
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Old 12-06-2010, 07:00 PM   #24
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RE: Size Does Matter

A slow boat with twins is fine for me.** I have been looking at some MTs, (the 47 Tradewinds and the 44 Labelle cockpit models in particular, however, I have read so much about the majority of these boats having water leakage problems, mostly around the windows and decks, that I am very leary about buying one.* A lot of the the pics in YW show major damage in those areas.* I'd love a GB if I could afford one. Again, Bayliner is not my kind of boat. There seems to be quite a few other makes available that don't seem to have these problems.* It's just a matter of the right configuration. That's why I'm counting on you guys for positive input.
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Old 12-06-2010, 07:32 PM   #25
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RE: Size Does Matter

1983 Marine Trader Sedan 36 single 120 Lehman
I've cruised my boat for years with my family of five and have also solo cruised many times as recently as two weeks in October. With one on board I have been reminded over and over why I prefer the sedan design:

Lower Helm- floats or docks are always just a second or two away. Site lines are completely unobstructed 360 degrees. Weather sucks, so what I'm inside in my pajamas drinking coffee and reading a book at the helm.

Sedan flybridge- huge!! I've had twelve up there, also makes for a great diving platform for the kids/grand kids. Always a breeze, great site lines.

Europa style- windows are covered no leaks! If it's raining our windows are open and we are still enjoying the air and views.

Galley up- A real plus when your solo! You don't want to go below anymore then necessary when your the only watch.

36 is snug with five, huge with one.

Ours is available.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1983.../United-States
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Old 12-06-2010, 08:04 PM   #26
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RE: Size Does Matter

Daddyo, I agree with all that you said about the sedan style.* I had one like yours for six years* When single handing it was always from the lower deck* Easy access to everything* A Kleenex box jambed between the spokes of the wheel was my autopilot.* In good weather I could sit out front on the trunk cabin and still have quick access to the controls.* She had starboard side steering and backed to starboard.* Made for easy single handing docking.* Get a breast line to shore and you are there.* Step out of the transom door, and take care of the other lines.*
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Old 12-06-2010, 08:39 PM   #27
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RE: Size Does Matter

Thanks for the info.
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Old 12-07-2010, 04:44 AM   #28
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RE: Size Does Matter

Do you think a boat with walk around decks (all around) would be advantages for docking purposes?


Doesnt matter a bit.

As soon as ONE spring line is on the dock, the boat is under control , and will stay in position.

Wandering about and adding lines can be done at leisure, then the engine secured.
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:55 AM   #29
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RE: Size Does Matter

good to know that, thanks
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Old 12-07-2010, 06:01 PM   #30
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RE: Size Does Matter

When I bought my boat I assumed my kids, friends etc. would be lining up to go boating. Wrong assumption, so right away I learned how to single hand her. Probably 75% of my boat time is solo, and I love it. Because I have a single engine, I had a bow thruster installed and am glad I did, docking is no problem so far. The drawbacks to solo cruising are that it gets rather tiring after 5 or 6 hours at the helm plus there's no one to bs with. Go for it.
Mike
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Old 12-07-2010, 06:58 PM   #31
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RE: Size Does Matter

Quote:
Gulf Comanche wrote:

When I bought my boat I assumed my kids, friends etc. would be lining up to go boating. Wrong assumption, so right away I learned how to single hand her. Probably 75% of my boat time is solo, and I love it. Because I have a single engine, I had a bow thruster installed and am glad I did, docking is no problem so far. The drawbacks to solo cruising are that it gets rather tiring after 5 or 6 hours at the helm plus there's no one to bs with. Go for it.
Mike
Baton Rouge
Mike, maybe you could pick up some crew from a local senior center.* You might even find one that knows how to crew and is a good BSer too.

*
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Old 12-07-2010, 09:20 PM   #32
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RE: Size Does Matter

Budd, thanks for the info. I will have crew from time to time as I have a son and a couple of nephews that are big time boaters ( all out of work also), and probably more guests than I care for. I will be soloing most of the time however. By choice. Actually looking forward to it. It would be interesting to do a survey of the members to see how much of their time cruising is solo.
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:25 AM   #33
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RE: Size Does Matter

Quote:
KJ wrote:

....I will have crew from time to time as I have a son and a couple of nephews that are big time boaters ( all out of work also), and probably more guests than I care for....
*We have sized boats by saying, drinks for 6, dinner for 4 and sleeps 2 real comfortably.

Larry/Lena
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Santiago, Colima, MX
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:46 PM   #34
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RE: Size Does Matter

Quote:
Jay N wrote:

Have cruised solo many times over the years, probably the longest trip was Seattle/Petersburg one year when the wife was held up in Seattle.

What makes WESTERLY easy to single-hand at 37 feet, is that the deck level is not far off the floats.* Access to the dock can be made easier with thrusters to hold you in position.*

If you*anchor out most of the time, a larger vessel is doable.
Thanks you for the post.

*


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Old 12-09-2010, 04:31 AM   #35
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RE: Size Does Matter

"It would be interesting to do a survey of the members to see how much of their time cruising is solo."


Not quite SOLO!

The key here is a really good auto pilot , so in some areas you can leave the wheel .

If you travel in open sea areas a set of "Murphy Gauges" will monitor and or secure the engine if necessary.

Even with a set of eyeballs at the helm , most would have no idea what the engine instruments are indicating. Murphy knows!
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Old 12-09-2010, 07:48 AM   #36
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RE: Size Does Matter

I've not heard of "Murphy's Gauges". Can you explain further?
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Old 12-09-2010, 10:16 AM   #37
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RE: Size Does Matter

http://www.fwmurphy.com/company_info/


Will take you to their site. They offer the usual monitoring guages but also some active level guages for oil and coolant that have alarm circuit provisions that can be very usefull.

No I don't have any.
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Old 12-09-2010, 10:52 AM   #38
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RE: Size Does Matter

"have alarm circuit provisions that can be very useful."


Indeed by installing a securing system (just a box and pull cable ) you can decide just if an alarm bell will rung or the engine stopped. Great for folks that haven't developed a good scan technique.

The system uses a dedicated battery , so even with a total electrical failure , the mechanical gauges and system will operate.
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:37 PM   #39
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RE: Size Does Matter

Good info, thanks.
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