Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-18-2010, 07:30 PM   #21
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
RE: Single or twins???

Quote:
sloboat wrote:

(not that anyone on this particular site would give a ratz azz about planing...heh, heh).*
If money was no object, including the price of fuel, I'd have a planing boat, either an Eastbay or a Fleming with the largest engines that could be shoehorned into it, in a second.* Plodding along at eight knots sucks big time. The only reason we do it is because we can't afford to go 25 knots, the boat or the fuel.

Taking three days to go from Bellingham to Desolation Sound is big-time*bullsh*t in my book.* I'm really jealous of the couple of people I know with Eastbays who can get up there in a day.* So you won't get any counter-argument from me if you talk about wanting to go fast.

*
__________________
Advertisement

Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 09:01 PM   #22
TF Site Team
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Country: Texas
Vessel Model: Carver 356
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,630
Single or twins???

<<They are no different to move around on than our tri-cabin if you exclude the aft cabin on our boat. *>>....nothing like totally redesigning your boat to prove your point!!! *That is funny stuff right there.




I don't mind going fast either but one of my issues is that you really have to pay attention on plane. Things happen alot faster and you really can't have a lapse in attention. Whereas, at 7-8 knots, you can make a sandwich(or whatever) and scan the horizon periodically and you will be fine. You may be going twice as fast but your "burn out" twice as quickly because of your stepped up concentration. IOW, you fatigue more quickly while running on plane.

And Marin, my only point ref side decks is that you are exposed. That is all. I have been on my side deck and not really paying attention when a boat wake hit the boat and made the boat move in a strange and unpredictable jerking action. I lost my balance for a minute and the side rail caught me. To say my heart skipped a beat is a severe understatement. My wife was sleeping below. Boat was on AP. If I had gone over I would have been dead and my wife would have woke up when the boat ran aground. When you are exposed, things can happen versus being safe in the confines of the boat. Are your side decks unsafe? No, not at all. Is it safer to access the cockpit via the salon(ala sedan)??? Yes it is. It is pretty hard to fall overboard while you are INSIDE the boat.

Eastbays are the epitome of what I am talking about in a sedan....and very fine boats indeed.




-- Edited by Baker on Monday 18th of January 2010 10:11:48 PM
__________________

Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 10:24 PM   #23
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Single or twins???

Quote:
Baker wrote:

*
<<They are no different to move around on than our tri-cabin if you exclude the aft cabin on our boat. *>>....nothing like totally redesigning your boat to prove your point!!! *That is funny stuff right there.
No, only refuting your claim that tri-cabins are harder to move around on deck than a sedan.* Not true in the case of GB tri-cabins and sedans and other trawlers of similar configuration where the deck configuration is identical in Sedans, Classics (tri-cabins), and Europas with few exceptions.* You keep requalifying your statements to the point where I'm thinking all you'll be left with is the spelling of "sedan."* Which, if you spell it right, I will most definitely agree with.

We have an Arima fishing boat that cruises at 26 mph.* While it does require*a bit*more concentration, you're underway a lot less time going from Point A to Point B.* So*I find it's*not nearly as tiring as plodding along over the same distance*at the pace of oozing jello at eight knots.* I've run our Arima up north in the Broughtons*getting to a halibut*area*for three hours straight*on*the plane and found it a hell of a lot less tiring than creeping along at eight*knots for the same amount of time in the GB.*With a planing boat you don't have to take the time to make a sandwich underway*when you get hungry--- by the time you get hungry you'll be there already.

I also used to think that at planing speeds we would miss a lot of the scenery and other interesting things.* But*we have not found this to be the case at all.* In fact in the GB we'll see something neat up ahead and end up saying, "Christ, are we ever going to get there?"* And by the time we do get there, if the interesting thing was alive it's long gone, and if it's not alive it's been so damn long we've probably forgotten what attracted our attention in the first place.**Where in the Arima if*we see something neat we can zip right*over and take a look.

I know all the arguments about the wonders of going slow--- I used to use the same arguments for the first bunch of years after we got the GB.* I no longer feel this way at all.* Slow sucks.* The only thing it has going for it in my book is it's real cheap. Outside of that I cannot think of a single advantage anymore.* Slow is boring, frustrating, time-wasting,*and tiring.* Fast is, well, fast.* You get there sooner and speaking for myself, I'm in a better frame of mind, I'm less frustrated and far less tired. I have way more time to do what*I*went there to do.* And I've had a hell of a lot more fun running the boat than just standing there watching the scenery zip past at the pace of a fossilized snail.

Our dog could probably run the GB at eight knots.* But we've not asked him to because he's so staggeringly bored with the pace he forces himself to pass out until we get to where we're going.



-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 19th of January 2010 01:16:42 AM
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 08:44 AM   #24
TF Site Team
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Country: Texas
Vessel Model: Carver 356
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,630
RE: Single or twins???

Cool man. Sedans and tri-cabins are the same(except that darn pesky aft cabin). We'll leave it at that.


Our Prairie did 7 knots. The boat we have does 16kts. Ive done many 12+ hour days on the Prairie (did one 4 day non-stop from Mississippi to Texas....68 hours straight) and I just seem to find a rhythm. This boat I am pretty much done after 6 hours. DOn't know if it is noise, concentration level, seating position. I think it is ultimately the fact that I walk around while going slow. I might go sit in the aft cockpit for a minute or two while the AP steers. I might take out the trash. A planing boat you are in the seat, at attention the whole time. This is just my experience. I am a little more on edge.

We are eyeballing our next boat(if ours ever sells....pretty tough market). No telling what it will be. Cost is always the biggest factor. I personally think fuel is not that big of a deal unless you are cruising full time in which case slow is the way to go. It could easily be a sedan....or a sundeck because the space they offer is hard to deny. There just aren't that many sedans out there in the trawler world. The manufacturers knew they are selling space/room aboard and that is what is compromised in a sedan. Ideally, it would be a single engine sedan with very little teak.....that barely exists except the new Mainships which we can't afford. It likely won't be a tri-cabin. I'd keep falling into or tripping over that darn pesky aft cabin.....
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 09:10 AM   #25
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,420
Single or twins???

Quote:
Marin wrote

"I know all the arguments about the wonders of going slow--- I used to use the same arguments for the first bunch of years after we got the GB.* I no longer feel this way at all.* Slow sucks.* The only thing it has going for it in my book is it's real cheap."
Couldn't agree more!* Slow does suck, especially when you are in an area where you might have an 8-10 knot tide off your bow. My boat cruises at 8.5 knots. She will go faster than that at BOT (balls out throttle) but still won't plane. I love this boat but 8-9 knots is really boring.



*


-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Tuesday 19th of January 2010 10:12:34 AM
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	seahorse.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	49.0 KB
ID:	1729  
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 10:58 AM   #26
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Single or twins???

Quote:
Baker wrote:

Cool man. Sedans and tri-cabins are the same(except that darn pesky aft cabin). We'll leave it at that.

I'd keep falling into or tripping over that darn pesky aft cabin.....
One advantage of the aft cabin is if one has guests aboard for an extended time it does provide a number of degrees of separation.* I think our friends from France really appreciated the privacy of having their own cabin and head at the other end of the boat from "those other people."* Granted, if a sedan/europa is big enough you can have two private staterooms up forward although they usually share the same head and while the cabins are separate it's not quite the same as being totally removed from the other occupants of the boat.* Having two separate staterooms or cabins no matter where they're located is far preferable, I think, to having to make up a berth in the main cabin every evening and then take it apart the next morning before the main cabin, galley, etc. can be used.* This is one of the disadvantages of the GB32 and the GB36 Sedan and Europa models.

So in terms of cabin arrangements with guests aboard, for the size of our boat we like the tri-cabin a lot.* And even without guests it's nice to have that totally separate forward cabin in which we can put or keep "stuff" without having to move or stow it every time we want to go to bed.*

However, in this rainy, damp climate were we in the market for a new (to us) trawler-type boat we would get a Europa, preferably a pilothouse, with its big covered and encloseable aft deck.* While we know nothing about their quality and construction, the Krogen is in our opinion an ideal boat for this environment in the 37-42 foot range.* With a tri-cabin, if the weather's bad you're only choice is to be inside.* With a europa, you can be outside even if the outside is wet and cold.

Sundecks are not popular up here, I guess because there's never any sun and from what I hear from people a complete walkaround deck is greatly preferred because of the nature of the docks that are used in the PNW and on up into SE Alaska.* In the case of GBs, which call their sundeck model a Motoryacht, when the local GB dealer gets one in they take forever to sell.* There is one currently in their fleet that has been for sale for as long as I can remember.* Their comparably priced Europas go very fast as do the Classics (tri-cabins).

But they're all too damn slow!



*


-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 19th of January 2010 12:00:38 PM
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 03:08 PM   #27
TF Site Team
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Country: Texas
Vessel Model: Carver 356
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,630
RE: Single or twins???

IMHO, the GB42 Europa is quite possibly the prettiest boat out there. The proportions are just right. And I fully agree reference guests being on the other side of the boat versus on the other side of a wall. The GB Europas Are small boats for their size....like most sedans. But they are knee buckling hear stopping pretty. The 36 Europa is right up there with it. The Europas fetch good money. Even if we could afford one, we still probably wouldn't just because of the teak. The 52EU has an aft cabin so you could get some seperation there.....if you have a million bucks.
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2010, 04:53 PM   #28
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
RE: Single or twins???

Quote:
Baker wrote:

The 36 Europa is right up there with it. The Europas fetch good money. Even if we could afford one, we still probably wouldn't just because of the teak.
If you get a very late one, say late 1990s or 2000s before they stopped making them, it is not uncommon to find them with the only external teak being the caprail (which for some reason on a GB "heritage"*apparently*had to be wood), the name boards, and the transom planks.* And sometimes one*teak trim strip delineating the break between the*base of the flying*bridge and the lower cabin.* Handrails, grab rails, hatch frames,*etc. are all stainless.* All the ones I've seen have teak decks, but the very latest ones prior to the shutdown of the line may have glued-down planks rather than screwed-down planks.* GB went to glued-down decking at some point, but I don't know when.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 02:26 AM   #29
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,355
RE: Single or twins???

I note my Defever 48 is designed with aft cabin and no teak decks just like Baker*lusts after, but at far less money. OOPS did I attempt to one up
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 11:42 AM   #30
TF Site Team
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Country: Texas
Vessel Model: Carver 356
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,630
RE: Single or twins???

DeFever has always offered tremendous value in the trawler segment. And when they do "fully depreciate"(whatever that means), their residual value is usually quite high!!! I have always been a fan of the 44/49.....also the 49RPH...although they have a tendency to be littered with teak. The new pilothouse DeFevers are awesome....but now we are dreaming...
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2010, 04:20 AM   #31
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,668
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
RE: Single or twins???

Rather intrigued by you guys and your recent debate re the respective merits of tri-cabin v's sedan. Especially the fact that once you both agreed to disagree, Marin admitted that if he was buying again, and a bit bigger, he would go Europa, as that's just the modern name for sedan. When I was looking.... and CHB 34s (called Clippers here is Aus), were those in my price range now 9 yrs ago, I envisaged taking friends out over-nighting quite often and favoured the aft or tri-cabin version, however, my 1st Mate insisted she wanted a walk out cockpit (ie sedan), version, no argument. That was a pity in one way, because back in the days of manufacture of the age of vessel I could afford, most here, and I suspect there, were tri-cabins, so it took a while. To my knowledge, and I looked long and hard, there are/were only 3 sedans of the circa 75 - 80 CHB 34 in our country, but eventually I got one, and she was right you know.
To illustrate Marin's point re weather. This Xmas/New year, we were out the whole week and it rained most of the time, and it didn't bother us one iota - now that I have extended the canopy to cover side decks and cockpit like the new models with extended hard-tops.
Incidentally Baker, I agree - if money was ever not the issue, the GB 42 Europa is to die for - well, not literally of course, or you couldn't enjoy it........
By the way, you should Google the Clipper 40/42 - quite a bit cheaper than the GB, but lovely boat - very affordable in US dollars.

Peter B
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2010, 06:05 AM   #32
TF Site Team
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Country: Texas
Vessel Model: Carver 356
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,630
RE: Single or twins???

I'll take a look Peter. But I do agree, the sedans are the "bastards" of the bunch simply because they compromise space....and space is what they are selling. SO there just aren't as many sedans out there. And then try finding one without teak!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!??!?!
__________________

Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Especially for you single screw guys Moonstruck General Discussion 35 08-12-2011 08:50 AM
Not Twins KJ Power Systems 56 02-18-2011 04:53 AM
locking through with a single screw Woodsong General Discussion 25 02-15-2011 02:29 PM
WANTED: Single 50 amp to single 30 amp adapter Woodsong Classifieds 8 10-25-2010 04:22 PM
Single v/s Twin Nomad Willy Power Systems 23 05-23-2009 05:04 AM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012