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Old 01-02-2015, 12:23 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post

With Insurance companies being the ultimate financial risk managers....either they think either single or twin must be pretty much the same....or they must charge differently....or they are spanking the twin guys pooling them with the single group that must ultimately wind up in danger or get towed more....
Oh, you haven't seen the new Towboat US plan where they have a twin engine discount? lol. Just kidding people. There is no such thing before someone takes me seriously. it was facetious in nature along the lines of psneeld's post.

As to insurers, figuring out what they care about versus what someone thinks they care about is a whole different story. We're in Florida, no named storm provisions, no navigation limitations except war zones that they might occasionally name. All boats insured the same so our smallest boat with a 200 nm range is technically insured for ocean crossings. Don't know if experience and captain's licenses meant a thing or if having a classed boat did. It's all like they take the information into some magic room and throw it up in the air and an answer comes out. We even suggested higher deductibles and they recalculated and got the same answer. So we stuck with the lower deductibles although we'd never file a small claim like that for fear of raising rates.
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Old 01-02-2015, 01:53 PM   #142
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Don't know if experience and captain's licenses meant a thing or if having a classed boat did. It's all like they take the information into some magic room and throw it up in the air and an answer comes out.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly how it works. I believe there is also a dart board as well as a Ouija board involved.
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Old 01-02-2015, 03:31 PM   #143
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I agree on the fatter wallet I could not afford twins. Marine parts can eat you out of a boating season in a hurry. If you truly plan on going where no else every goes or lives why are you going there in the first place? Most locations you might tow a local or they will tow you. The more remote usually the more friendly people are. Good luck on finding a boat and run it about 500 hrs. If you are still running you will have work most the problems out. The least will be the motor or motors I bet.
I think that sums it up pretty well.

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Old 01-02-2015, 04:00 PM   #144
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...

During our Pacific crossing from San Diego to Hawaii, I could not shake the inherent stress of 'What happens when the the big beast stops?' Turn on your wing engine right? Yeah, well I tried that, and she pushes us along smartly at 2.8 knots. Thatís it. We could probably do 3 if we kept the peddle to the metal but that would not be sustained, and would also be foolish. So 2.8 knots it is.
...

Have fun out there - & Happy New Year!
this is also well stated and the fact that Andy and Julie recognize this, allows them to develop a solution that works for them.

Occasionally, during our passage, these thoughts did occur to me, did the engine pitch change or was it just someone in the pilot house door blocking the sound?

But after a few seconds, I went on to think of other things, as I have learned
over the years, that there is no point in worrying about stuff i can not change.

Also, other than the insurance companies, most seem to have forgotten where they are truly at risk. And it's not in the middle of the ocean.

Maybe it the places I've lived, as I have feared for my life, but never on the boat. I was far more conscious of engine failure driving between Fairbanks and Anchorage in the middle of the winter, or worse, going off the road, yet it didn't stop me from doing it.
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Old 01-08-2015, 04:41 AM   #145
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Don't two engines have twice the failure rate of a single engine?
Why stop there ?
Dont two fuel filters per engine have twice the glog rate over single filter ?
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Old 01-08-2015, 06:23 AM   #146
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Don't two engines have twice the failure rate of a single engine?

OF COURSE , owners hope (pray) that they will die at different times.

Bad fuel will stop them both dead , usually a few min apart.
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Old 01-08-2015, 07:22 AM   #147
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Good gosh! All this scary talk about the potential for single engine disaster has gotten me thinking about going back to my "Auxiliary Sail" lifestyle.
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Old 01-08-2015, 10:35 AM   #148
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Good gosh! All this scary talk about the potential for single engine disaster has gotten me thinking about going back to my "Auxiliary Sail" lifestyle.
Yep, for me, a Fisher 37 motorsailer is looking better and better.



Well, I guess the "loop" would be out of the question, but for me that is not a problem. A partial 'return to sail' or a step away from the 'dark side'.

Aw heck, I'm too lazy to mess around with sails . . . . . I'll just have to keep taking my chances with a single.

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Old 01-08-2015, 11:03 AM   #149
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Good gosh! All this scary talk about the potential for single engine disaster has gotten me thinking about going back to my "Auxiliary Sail" lifestyle.

Better yet just stay on the beach .... then nothing can happen.. but then there are tsunami's..

Part of the boating thing is risk.. we all have to accept some form of risk just to step on the boat. If one was an actuary and started to analyze all the risks I am sure being stranded by a single engine crapping out offshore is pretty low on the scale.

I would guess ( I will put myself in this category) that if one ventures offshore in a single vs. twin most skippers will take the extra step to make sure all the parts of their propulsion system are first rate.. and pay just a bit more attention to ANY anomaly no matter how slight to insure uninterrupted operation.

Of course .. sometimes "shit happens" as the popular phrase states.. either accept the risk and deal with it or stay home.

No reason to dig up the rotting carcass of the dead horse just to kick it again.

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Old 01-08-2015, 12:35 PM   #150
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I have to say that a good part of why I went for twins was propulsion redundancy. However after two years living with the twins I would not want to do without them. The main benefit I find for my type of single handed boating with a lot of in and out of tight marina slips is the marked increase of maneuverability. Yes I have fore and aft thrusters but the props which have a good separation on my boat give a real added control and again control redundancy. For boats with crew or that swing on a mooring or anchor out this is probably not an issue worth the cost or complexity. For me backing 50 ft of boat single handed into a covered slip weekly it is an issue.
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Old 01-08-2015, 01:36 PM   #151
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Didn't a single engine pleasure boat just cross the Atlantic ocean?
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Old 01-08-2015, 02:33 PM   #152
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Al,
Yea and a guy probably just rode across the US on a bycicl.

eyschulman,
I like your redundancy and envy your maneurability.

I think most of us just bought the boat we liked and it came w whatever it came with. It's a lot like that w anchors too.
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Old 01-08-2015, 03:49 PM   #153
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I promise I'm not a troller in the trawler forum. I understand that the single vs twin engine (or get home) is a quasi-religious question. However, it's going to factor into my decision and I'd love some input.

So here's my question - and it's not "which is better?" Rather, what do people do when they're single engine breaks down? Here are some options that come to my mind

1) Call for a tow home - this is ok if you're in range of a tow company. I have had the BoatUS Gold Towing service for over a decade and wouldn't be without it

[Let's assume you're making a coastal passage and not in tow boat range]

2) Fix the engine. The most likely things to stop a well maintained cruising engine can be fixed by the well-prepared skipper who has spares (fuel filters, pumps, hoses, impellers, etc)

3) Is there a number 3?

It's a serious concern for me - since I intend on making coastal passages and expect to be out of tow boat range. However, if people do this without undue risk then I'd like to be able to consider single engine boats.

Thanks

Richard
Anchor somewhere safe and out of the way first, then Plan A would be #2 (fix it myself). Plan B would be get towed to where I could get the engine fixed. Plan C would be to break out the blue poly tarps and plywood and become a squatter where-is.
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Old 01-08-2015, 05:23 PM   #154
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I promise I'm not a troller in the trawler forum. I understand that the single vs twin engine (or get home) is a quasi-religious question. However, it's going to factor into my decision and I'd love some input.

So here's my question - and it's not "which is better?" Rather, what do people do when they're single engine breaks down? Here are some options that come to my mind

1) Call for a tow home - this is ok if you're in range of a tow company. I have had the BoatUS Gold Towing service for over a decade and wouldn't be without it

[Let's assume you're making a coastal passage and not in tow boat range]

2) Fix the engine. The most likely things to stop a well maintained cruising engine can be fixed by the well-prepared skipper who has spares (fuel filters, pumps, hoses, impellers, etc)

3) Is there a number 3?

It's a serious concern for me - since I intend on making coastal passages and expect to be out of tow boat range. However, if people do this without undue risk then I'd like to be able to consider single engine boats.

Thanks

Richard
Variation of #1 call for tow-wait 5 hours if you can anchor-flag down boat to tow where you can anchor while waiting the five hours-Old 52 ft fish boat sent by Can CG hits rock on way in to tow you-fish boat gets line to you and tows you into the only other boat in the anchorage and only your fast action with your bow thruster avoids a major catastrophe and ends up with a glancing collision rather than head on-5 hour tow to outer breakwater for a rough overnight- followed by the determination that the motor is truly frozen and boat needs two more hours tow to where head comes off- motor is toast-engine can not be repaired there and boat cannot come out of water-hydraulic lift truck 6 hours away comes and pulls boat out of water and takes it 7 hours away to where it can get a new motor. Needless to say my new boat has TWO engines.
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Old 01-08-2015, 05:35 PM   #155
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If 2 engines have twice the failure rate of a single (rubbish IMO), it follows that a single has half the failure rate of twins. From that it follows that having no engine will reduce the failure risk of a single to zero.There may be other disadvantages, but never an engine failure!
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Old 01-08-2015, 06:22 PM   #156
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If 2 engines have twice the failure rate of a single (rubbish IMO), it follows that a single has half the failure rate of twins. From that it follows that having no engine will reduce the failure risk of a single to zero.There may be other disadvantages, but never an engine failure!
Dont overlook the advantages! Permanently at the dock means no fuel bills. No need for stabilisers. No hard decisions on which anchor to buy, you wont need one.
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Old 01-08-2015, 07:47 PM   #157
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While two engines may have twice the # of break downs as a single, those problems not likely to happen at the same time. So the twin would have a fairly large safety(redundancy) factor regarding functional propulsion should murphy strike. Even with fuel problems a twin with separate tanks has a much greater margin of redundancy safety factor. As I see it the significant arguments against twins is related to stern gear protection-cost to install maintain and run, and engine placement- engine room area allotment. For many boats and owners the difference in fuel burn provided the twins are same total HP as a single is not significant in the overall coast of the boating budget. The twins would be called on to put out close to the same HP as a single for a given speed with a small lose of efficiency. To compare single engine boats in FD hulls against twins in SD is a apples and oranges situation. I think using SD twin and single same boasts would be more reasonable.
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Old 01-08-2015, 08:39 PM   #158
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What is the "rate of failure" of a large clam-crusher? Is a failure a stoppage or a catastrophic? Let's guess and say one stoppage every 2000 hours. For most of us dedicated cruisers, that could be once in 20 years. Does the failure happen at the first 100 hours or at the 2100th? It's logical that if we assume that the "rate of failure" is largely meaningless, it's also reasonable to assume 2 engines have twice that rate, which is also meaningless.

I like singles, there are definitely maneuvering challenges, but that just makes it interesting instead of just driving your Toyota on narrow streets.
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Old 01-08-2015, 09:05 PM   #159
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... As I see it the significant arguments against twins is related to stern gear protection-cost to install maintain and run, and engine placement- engine room area allotment....
There was a pic of a GH on another thread, showing a great job of protecting prop and rudder, reproducing the set up seen on protected singles. For other builders, cost may be factor, could be other reasons.
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Old 01-08-2015, 09:18 PM   #160
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Ok, y'all have convinced me to look for a four engine trawler, a backup for each main. Now who makes and sells one?
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