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Old 04-18-2019, 05:21 PM   #1
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Simple Sailing Versus Well Appointed Trawlering

So we hung out in George Town, Exuma today, watching lots of folks on sail boats bring in their water cans to get free water from the dock faucet, their yellow Jerry cans to get diesel, and one woman on a catamaran hang her bed sheets and other laundry off the rails to dry!

I was wondering, as I just now turned on the generator, started the water-maker up, walked into the galley and turned on the full dishwasher, as Sian put a load of washing into the washing machine - does this make me a bad person?

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Old 04-18-2019, 06:20 PM   #2
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does this make me a bad person?

No, it was all the other things you've written.

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Old 04-18-2019, 06:23 PM   #3
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We met cruisers when we 1st started cruising in 08 who took great pride in the fact that they could make 5 gallons of water last I don't recall how long, they wore the same clothes all the time, laundered them in saltwater & ammonia, then threw them out at the end of the season. Bathe in saltwater with a deck rinse from the solar shower bag. It's like a badge of a martyrdom. It's a different mindset.



No, all those luxurious appointments do not make you a bad person. As long as you don't throw extra ice overboard when the sailboters can witness the act.

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Old 04-18-2019, 06:41 PM   #4
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As long as you don't throw extra ice overboard when the sailboters can witness the act.

Wellllllll... there is one corner of our ice maker container where for some reason the ice blocks.
Every so often I do just grab that and chuck it overboard.

I need to make sure there is a sailboat down current of us next time I do that!
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Old 04-18-2019, 06:55 PM   #5
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I need to make sure there is a sailboat down current of us next time I do that!
That's just plain cruel...

Of course I don't feel the slightest remorse being able to take long, hot showers - and one day firing up the jacuzzi tub on a cold day while at anchor. We have an everhot system so endless supply of hot water at our disposal.
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Old 04-18-2019, 08:20 PM   #6
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That's just plain cruel...

Of course I don't feel the slightest remorse being able to take long, hot showers - and one day firing up the jacuzzi tub on a cold day while at anchor. We have an everhot system so endless supply of hot water at our disposal.
Where is the tub on your 60?

I found a perfect tub for two people and a nice place for it on the boat deck just behind the seating and forward of the davit. But the missus nixed it. Says it is far too pretentious!

Tublicious Hot Tubs | 2 Person Plug In Hot Tubs
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Old 04-18-2019, 09:31 PM   #7
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No, it was all the other things you've written.

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Old 04-18-2019, 09:53 PM   #8
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Just remember that on that 250' yacht down the anchorage the cooks are preparing a five star meal while the maid makes up the suite, the masseuse is warming up her Swedish hands, and the helicopter has been prep'd for a breakfast tour.

Look down if you must, but you are not the top of the food chain . Plenty of looking up to do from a mere 53 footer. When I was in Georgetown there was a 350' yacht anchored outside the harbor (too big to enter) - but they made do with the helicopter and 35' launches.
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Old 04-18-2019, 11:04 PM   #9
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?.
Your recent "provocative" (or as we say "stirring")posting style? I quite like it.
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Old 04-19-2019, 12:46 AM   #10
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Where is the tub on your 60?

I found a perfect tub for two people and a nice place for it on the boat deck just behind the seating and forward of the davit. But the missus nixed it. Says it is far too pretentious!

Tublicious Hot Tubs | 2 Person Plug In Hot Tubs
Nice find, easy to install and no fancy plumbing needed.

Ours came with a jacuzzi tub/shower in the master head. The jets are pretty strong and not sure it would be too relaxing with them fired up.
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Old 04-19-2019, 08:21 AM   #11
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We have done both.

30 years ago we cruised an older 40' steel ketch. Very simple. Did not have: inside showers, hot water heater, HVAC, holding tank, water maker, generator, freezer, autopilot, chart plotters, cameras, radar....

We did have a single 55 hp industrial Ford engine, Aeries wind vane, 5 HP/roll-up dinghy, one manual salt water head, 100 gal water tank, 80 gal diesel tank, an RDF, an old depth depth finder, VHF, paper charts and one battery bank. While cruising we installed a roller furling genoa, SSB, sextant, hand-held GPS and small wind generator. No car, no house. No broker, no insurance. Before cell phones and internet.

Yet we cruised for an enjoyable 5 years, 13K miles at 4-6 knots via the Med, transatlantic, east-south-west Caribbean. Stayed many months in Italy, Greece , Spain, Grenada/Trinidad, Panama, Guatemala and Belize.

Now we have a 30 year old, twin screw, heavy displacement 45 ton trawler with multiple aging but well backed up systems. In a year we have covered 2K miles at 6-7 knots and now in the Bahamas.

Real differences: (+) space, comfort, ice; (-) our age, complexity, cost, maintenance time, roll. Improvements in communications, WX information and electronic charts are the same for power and sail. Although the boat is capable, we probably will not undertake more than 3 day crossings.

At this point I would call it an even trade-off. In general we feel that sailors live closer to the water, weather and have easier interactions with local culture. Respect is due.

Everyone enjoys the same surrounding nature and culture, no matter what you have. And, as noted above, there is always a bigger and better boat around the corner.
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Old 04-19-2019, 08:45 AM   #12
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...In general sailors live closer to the water, weather....
Sea kayaking is about as intimate a way of traveling through the ocean environment that you can get. You feel everything, and I mean everything in a direct visceral way, akin to hiking up a mountain rather than taking the gondola.

I've never sailed, but I imagine it would be like bicycling through an environment, where you travel a bit faster but can still feel pretty much everything.

In both the above examples, the speed you travel and your safety is completely related to how well you can read the environment and avoid conditions beyond your skill set. You also "earn your way" to your destination rather than just push a lever forward.

Trawlering is like traveling on an air conditioned bus. Nice views out the window, but for the most part you're sealed off from experiencing much of what the environment has to offer.

We'd still be kayaking if my wife hadn't been t-boned and got her shoulder wrecked. We love our boat and how it's allowed us to share our passion for this coastline with our daughter, but we miss the intimacy of kayaking.
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Old 04-19-2019, 09:05 AM   #13
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So we hung out in George Town, Exuma today, watching lots of folks on sail boats bring in their water cans to get free water from the dock faucet, their yellow Jerry cans to get diesel, and one woman on a catamaran hang her bed sheets and other laundry off the rails to dry!

I was wondering, as I just now turned on the generator, started the water-maker up, walked into the galley and turned on the full dishwasher, as Sian put a load of washing into the washing machine - does this make me a bad person?


When you are at the fuel dock buying 500 gallons of diesel, the sailors are going to look lovingly at their couple of yellow Jerry cans!

I agree with DCDC posts, "At this point I would call it an even trade-off. In general we feel that sailors live closer to the water, weather and have easier interactions with local culture. Respect is due."

The bottom line, however, is that it sounds like everyone was enjoying a beautiful anchorage!

Jim
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Old 04-19-2019, 09:14 AM   #14
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At this point I would call it an even trade-off. In general we feel that sailors live closer to the water, weather and have easier interactions with local culture. Respect is due.
I understand what you are saying. Although my original post was tongue-in-cheek, I will add this more serious point in response.

I started sailing GP14s and then cruisers off the north west coast of Ireland from 8 years old - that was 53 years ago!

And I am sorry to say the above is no longer the case from what I am seeing here in the beautiful Bahamas. So far we have three occasions where sail boats, up wind/current from us, have discharged their sewage directly into anchorages where people were also swimming. Once in Highbourne anchorage, once in Cambridge Cay anchorage, once in Big Majors.
We now sit for a few days riding out some weather in George Town. There are approximately 250-300 boats here. Many come in October/November and don't move until April/May. Where do you think their sewage is going?

I understand that there are no pump out facilities here but within a few miles of all of these anchorages is water thousands of feet deep with washing currents. I guess the thought of losing their "spot" deters them from going outside.

There are a number of other "not close to nature" things going on here that I won't bother mentioning, but there certainly is not the "leave nothing behind but footprints" mentality from everyone.
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Old 04-19-2019, 09:37 AM   #15
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I was wondering, as I just now turned on the generator, started the water-maker up, walked into the galley and turned on the full dishwasher, as Sian put a load of washing into the washing machine - does this make me a bad person?
Many years ago, my brother who was a veteran of the Sea of Cortez, told me of an anchorage he was in where the sail boaters remarked rather loudly their disdain for his generator noise. Disparaging remarks could also be heard about his ability to make his own water and his careless use of same. He had a large dinghy with a good size motor that also pissed the blow boaters off. In short, he was the scourge of that anchorage and was determined to turn his image around.

One day a sailor from one of the sail boats came along side and asked him if he had any gas he could spare for his dinghy. My brother immediately obliged with filling up the container that they had brought along. He also ask them if they (and others in the anchorage) needed any fresh water. After high tailing it back to their group of boats, 5 dinghys arrived with their water carrying jerry cans and without even asking, had them filled. later that evening, my brother invited all five boats for a pot luck aboard his 57' De Fever. A good time was had by all and I wonder to this day as to how many of those sailors eventually ended up on the "dark side."
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Old 04-19-2019, 10:06 AM   #16
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I have to admit that if someone, in a more remote anchorage, came and asked for water we would be more than happy to oblige to save them having to detour to get some.

I'd have to be sparing with gas though as I only have enough for my own dinghy.
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Old 04-19-2019, 10:43 AM   #17
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It really isn't so much a sail vs. power thing. Any modern 53' sailboat has large fuel tanks, a genset, watermaker, shower, and likely laundry. And a 29' powerboat likely doesn't. Bigger boats have more comforts, but isolate you more from your surroundings. That - and money - are the tradeoffs. The same is true on land. There is a continuum of experiences: backpacking, bicycle camping, motorcycle camping, a car, a van, a camper, and a class A motorhome. I've done them all. Backpacking you have a pretty close experience with your surroundings. Class A motorhome isn't a lot different than just staying home. Neither is wrong or bad, just different.
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Old 04-19-2019, 11:55 AM   #18
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?.
The wink implies that what was written might not be serious. You like to poke as was evident by your original post. Mine was a friendly poke back, not to be serious or in anyway critical. Sorry if it didn't come across that way.

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Old 04-19-2019, 12:08 PM   #19
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That lifestyle isn't my idea of a good time....but I do respect the many sailors who cross ocean's in small boats. Gritty.
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Old 04-19-2019, 12:15 PM   #20
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The wink implies that what was written might not be serious. You like to poke as was evident by your original post. Mine was a friendly poke back, not to be serious or in anyway critical. Sorry if it didn't come across that way.

Ted
Fair enough, I was just wondering who I upset now!
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