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Old 09-11-2016, 05:32 PM   #21
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Interesting. Also neat how one is labeled "Sunction," I have not seen that before.

That picture of your Racor filter and filter valve does raise another question for me though.

When I got the boat the valve for the duty and standby was set to both. For now I have left it that way.

Last weekend on a trip with other boaters I raised the question. My thought being you should really run through the duty and if you have an issue there switch to the standby while your replace the duty. That way bad fuel will not take the engine down. He told me that his filters are also set to both at the advice of his mechanic.

I don't get it. I am having the Lugger guy come before the end of the year to do the annual and this is YET another question I have!

It could be that while in US waters, where fuel is more reliable, you get longer between filter changes, watch your filter pressure gauge, and then change both at the same time.

But not sure that is the best way all the same.
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Old 09-11-2016, 05:40 PM   #22
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I always run on one filter keeping the other as standby. I think running on both defeats the redundancy of the system.
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Old 09-11-2016, 05:42 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies View Post
Interesting. Also neat how one is labeled "Sunction," I have not seen that before.

That picture of your Racor filter and filter valve does raise another question for me though.

When I got the boat the valve for the duty and standby was set to both. For now I have left it that way.

Last weekend on a trip with other boaters I raised the question. My thought being you should really run through the duty and if you have an issue there switch to the standby while your replace the duty. That way bad fuel will not take the engine down. He told me that his filters are also set to both at the advice of his mechanic.

I don't get it. I am having the Lugger guy come before the end of the year to do the annual and this is YET another question I have!

It could be that while in US waters, where fuel is more reliable, you get longer between filter changes, watch your filter pressure gauge, and then change both at the same time.

But not sure that is the best way all the same.
I have the same system for my propulsion engine. Running on both makes no sense. If you run on both and develop a clogged filter, they're both clogged. I run on one, so that I'm able to switch to a clean filter in an emergency. The Racor 1,000 is rated for 180 GPH per filter, so flow shouldn't be an issue.

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Old 09-12-2016, 10:56 AM   #24
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When I first took a look at this set up I thought "Holy Moly, how am I going to work all of this out," this is extremely complex.

But when I sat back and read the labeling (which is well done), it is all very clear and well laid out.

Anyone else with a "seemingly" complicated set up?
I like the labeling with plastic ties. In some applications could imagine they could be inadvertently pulled off. For this usage I think it would be preferred.

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Old 09-12-2016, 12:31 PM   #25
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Here are a couple of photos. The first one with red lines in the flow coming from the tanks and going to the engines. With a transfer line. The second one with yellow lines are the return flows coming back from the engines to the tanks, with a transfer line.

Three tanks, Starboard, Port and Forward.

Tags are on there with cable ties.

What I've done as a backup is to put label maker labels on the valve handles. Just in case a tag "disappears".
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Old 09-12-2016, 03:33 PM   #26
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Show Us Your Fuel Valves

No pics. But PO used 3 way valves. Open l, open R , both. And they are on both supply and return of port and STBD tank. I can take from either side, or both and return to either side , or both. What seems to happen in practice though more returns to STBD side when open both. So I run off one side for a month. (Returning to same side). Then Switch to other side to even out.

This is valve type. http://www.westmarine.com/buy/sierra...rsal--14605281
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Old 09-13-2016, 11:28 AM   #27
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On my 4588 I too have the main fuel board that others have posted. Here is an excerpt from my Out-A-Sight user manual.
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Old 09-13-2016, 11:45 AM   #28
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I have the same system for my propulsion engine. Running on both makes no sense. If you run on both and develop a clogged filter, they're both clogged. I run on one, so that I'm able to switch to a clean filter in an emergency. The Racor 1,000 is rated for 180 GPH per filter, so flow shouldn't be an issue.

Ted
I have heard this discussion multiple times - whether to run on one racor and have a second as a hot standby or run on both.

A friend who I respect very much subscribes to the increased filter area of running on both. Clogs wont happen as fast, regular changes of filters before they get totally clogged.

I subscribe to the run on one, and have a hot standby approach. My experience has been a lot of times the clogging of a filter can come on pretty fast. Once I know I have an issue - I can switch over to a clean filter and have that engine available for a period of time to position the boat to a location where I want it to be when I change the filter. It's no fun sitting in rolling seas, one engine trying to maintain steerage while you have to change out filters.

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Old 09-13-2016, 11:59 AM   #29
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"A friend who I respect very much subscribes to the increased filter area of running on both. Clogs wont happen as fast, regular changes of filters before they get totally clogged"

If this is the goal then add a bulk filter up line with a separate vac gage to achieve the longest filter life. Utilizing two finer filters in parallel to achieve that goal is not the best use of hardware or money.
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Old 09-13-2016, 12:11 PM   #30
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Quote:
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I have heard this discussion multiple times - whether to run on one racor and have a second as a hot standby or run on both.

A friend who I respect very much subscribes to the increased filter area of running on both. Clogs wont happen as fast, regular changes of filters before they get totally clogged.

I subscribe to the run on one, and have a hot standby approach. My experience has been a lot of times the clogging of a filter can come on pretty fast. Once I know I have an issue - I can switch over to a clean filter and have that engine available for a period of time to position the boat to a location where I want it to be when I change the filter. It's no fun sitting in rolling seas, one engine trying to maintain steerage while you have to change out filters.

Mark
Vacuum gauge:
If you're going to invest this kind of money in a dual separator system, it's crazy not to have a vacuum gauge at the helm to warn you of a fouling filter. Unless the separator is undersized, you have lots of time (probably hours) to switch filters, from when you first start seeing a rise in vacuum.

Left one is engine. Right one is fuel polisher.

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Ted
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Old 09-13-2016, 12:56 PM   #31
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In my boat with a single engine, generator and P/S saddle tanks, I use this Groco fuel selector valve. It simultaneously switches both supply and return, and has Off-Left-Both-Right positions. The generator supply is Tee'd in downstream of the Racor, which although just a single, it is very accessible just by raising a hatch. It includes a vacuum telltale, a primer bulb and can be changed very quickly. I couldn't think of a way to make it any simpler, or use fewer clamps and fittings.

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Old 09-13-2016, 01:33 PM   #32
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Not as fancy as others shown here, but effective. Shut off valves from dual tanks into filter, dedicated feeds from filter to motor and generator with shutoffs, and a common return line with shutoffs to both tanks.

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Old 09-14-2016, 05:37 AM   #33
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The Groco valve is about as good as it gets for switching tanks.

With dual filters we use 3 way valves with a gang bar .

It connects to the valves so in the left position the left filter is operated , in the right , the right filter.

Sorry no photo.

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Old 09-14-2016, 11:06 AM   #34
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I have four tanks, two engines, and a generator. The system also has ports for a transfer pump, but I don't have one installed.
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Old 09-14-2016, 12:47 PM   #35
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Interesting question regarding drawing fuel from 2 tanks at the same time. When done, is the consumption balanced or does one tank provide more fuel than the other? This may very well be a "try it and see" as I suspect equal v unequal runs from tank to manifold as well as other factors influence this situation. Then again maybe there is a simple answer or calculation. It would be nice to draw from each of two tanks simultaneously and not have to be concerned with always "leveling" the boat. Just a thought.
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Old 09-14-2016, 02:32 PM   #36
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Interesting question regarding drawing fuel from 2 tanks at the same time. When done, is the consumption balanced or does one tank provide more fuel than the other? This may very well be a "try it and see" as I suspect equal v unequal runs from tank to manifold as well as other factors influence this situation. Then again maybe there is a simple answer or calculation. It would be nice to draw from each of two tanks simultaneously and not have to be concerned with always "leveling" the boat. Just a thought.
The challenge is as much on the return as the draw in a diesel installation. When I've tried this I've ended up with unbalanced tanks, and I'm pretty sure it's because the return has an easier path to one tank over the other.
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Old 09-14-2016, 04:25 PM   #37
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My engines return to a shared tube from which the three tanks feed. I currently have the port and starboard valves fully open to accept the returned fuel, and the forward tank closed. However the port tank continuously gets more of the return.

In fact next time out I am going to start slightly closing the port return valve to the point where they balance. I just need to remember to read the tanks to see if it working before I start the genset as that draws from the starboard.
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Old 09-14-2016, 05:30 PM   #38
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Interesting question regarding drawing fuel from 2 tanks at the same time. When done, is the consumption balanced or does one tank provide more fuel than the other? This may very well be a "try it and see" as I suspect equal v unequal runs from tank to manifold as well as other factors influence this situation. Then again maybe there is a simple answer or calculation. It would be nice to draw from each of two tanks simultaneously and not have to be concerned with always "leveling" the boat. Just a thought.
With a single engine and two tanks, I have so far been drawing from only one tank at a time. Drawing from both would make balancing tanks much less frequent, even if they don't draw down exactly the same. What are the pros and cons of doing this?
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Old 09-14-2016, 06:38 PM   #39
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Here's my simple system for one main engine, two generators, two tanks and three racors.

There is a tank balance line which is only closed during refuelling.

The fuel drain cock is switchable between tanks.

The sight glass has a springloaded cock.

Each tank has an additional remotely operated shutoff cock.

The three racors are independantly switcheable across Gardner and Seawasp generator.
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Old 09-14-2016, 06:47 PM   #40
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2 engines + genset, 2 tanks, 2 Racors, 1 cross connection. Valves on each feed and on the crossover. Return lines only to the side the engine is on.
Genset runs and returns only on the Stb and has its own racor.
Diesel stove daytank only on the Pt.
The only complexity is the daytank for the diesel stove, it fills from the Pt engine return, which bypasses when full, and also from a little Walbro that pumps about 1l/hr when needed.
No manifold, so no pictures.
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