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Old 07-30-2015, 01:16 AM   #21
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For this period of our life and what we use it for... we are 100% pleased with our Tollycraft!
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Old 07-30-2015, 07:04 AM   #22
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For Tom and me, we didn't know what we didn't know. The first Skinny Dippin' just "felt right" when we saw it. We didn't even know what kind of boaters we were going to be yet. We had five great years cruising the coasts of NC and SC at 7kts when we decided maybe we'd like to go a little faster, have a little more space, and maybe a little newer.
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Old 07-30-2015, 09:10 AM   #23
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We caught the same disease about 3 years ago for exactly the same reasons. We were off the coast a couple of days ago, cruising at 10 knots and experiencing uncomfortable rolls. We kicked the speed up to 13 knots and had a great ride. (I can always slow down but having the ability to match what the sea throws at us is priceless.
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Old 07-30-2015, 10:17 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
In general people that buy the smallest boat that they think will server there needs will be the ones with the coulds, shoulda, woulda syndrome.

People that buy the largest, most comfortable boat that they can manage due to length, maintenance, or financial limitations I believe rarely have those thoughts.


Very well said
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Old 07-30-2015, 08:22 PM   #25
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This has been a really great thread and I thank everyone who contributed. Everyone.

Acknowledging and answering each post would be the decent thing to do, but redundancy and tedium would take over like an espresso machine in a head thread...

So, I'll try to hit as many points as I can here and if you are not directly mentioned it is not because you were ignored. On the other hand...

Anyway, RTFirefly, I wasn't being flip. I was born in a tiny coastal BC logging camp where the only transportation was Union Steamships to Vancouver and water taxi or fish boat to Alert Bay. I've run boats all up and down the coast. My own and other peoples. Chartered out of Vancouver, Bahia Mar and Marsh Harbour. Only one did I ever look at as "would this suit me?" The rest were just carpe diem. A few years ago, I delivered an American owned 55 Offshore PH from Prince Rupert to Victoria. I took 3 weeks to do it. It pretty much had everything I could have wanted, I think, but was just too big to fit in some of the one boat crevasses I like to haunt. (Marin, I'll get to you in a bit).

Talking points...
At age 4, I saw my first bloated "package" pulled from the chuck. My respect for the water was instilled in me before I could spell pike pole.
My first summer job was running water taxi in and around Cortez Island; Refuge Cove; Church House.
Taught Power Squadron; volunteered as CCG Auxilliary.
Was a time I thought electric start and signals on a bike were lame.
I was one of the last to bow to ATM use.
Neither Starbucks nor sushi have crossed my lips. Never will.
Don't understand thrusters on a 26 foot boat.
Always thought water makers were an extravagant overkill.
Then I read here about no water at Klemtu.

Point being...
None of the above taught me what I definitively needed; 2 cabins or 3, 3208 or triple nickel, but the more I read here the closer I get. The personal experiences of people here who have learned and pass it on, are more valuable to me than any charter. Chris, in few words; "don't expect to get it right the first time." Mike and Tina; "buy your second boat first." Those comments make the brain work and then there is Marin. Ubiquitous Marin; PNW, covered cockpit, diesel heat, not an inch longer than 37' Marin and "most of the time it's just the two of us", Marin.

The boats I have in mind; a 42 GB Classic now in third place, a 50 O A Mk II which I have loved from the time I watched one rise up out of a hold at Long Beach CA and in first spot, the older OA 42 Sedan. All fine boats, all different. Just refinements needed; sufficient holding and water tankage, good freezer, efficient and proper heat. All for sitting in Simoon Sound 'til the fall fog puts the run on me; enough grunt to run Dent Rapids when I get there, not waiting for slack; comfort, alone at Suchia in a November rain.

Thanks all...
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Old 07-30-2015, 08:27 PM   #26
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It's actually not one inch longer than 36' Hawgwash, not 37.
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Old 07-30-2015, 08:33 PM   #27
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It's actually not one inch longer than 36' Hawgwash, not 37.
Again I'm reminded, sometimes there's just too much to absorb all at once.
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Old 07-31-2015, 07:58 AM   #28
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You're doing well HW... now find a good boat and enjoy. There are usually more compromises in boating than there are in taking on a mate for life... well maybe not now that I think about it. - LOL

Anyway - Talk is plentiful and inexpensive. Pleasure Boating is limited inside a fairly tight community and often it is quite expensive... as well as it can be made affordably personally expansive... if handled correctly.

Waiting to find the "exactly-correct" boat can become arduous beyond reality. Deciding to compromise on certain boat issues can make getting onto water more readily available and the boat buying experience greater fun. You seem to be darn well researched in boat type/design desired. Relax a bit with compromises understood and at hand during your search... the correct boat "will find you"!

If I may add: I recommend you look at some Tollycraft boats. Although they are all becoming classics due to company shut down in early 1990's; quality of the 6,500 built was/is top notch... as used boats they are usually very affordable too. Many Tolly's have been kept-up well by their owners.

Happy Boat Daze! - Art
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Old 07-31-2015, 10:35 AM   #29
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No shoulda, coulda, woulda from us.
After sailing for 10 years, we knew what we wanted in a part time live-aboard cruising vessel. We spent a lot of time looking and learning about trawlers and have absolutely no regrets about purchasing our Sea Ranger. There were no other boats in our price range that included all the features that Delia Rosa has and seven years later we are still in love with her!
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Old 07-31-2015, 11:00 AM   #30
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The boat I have now kinda found me. About 10 years ago I met a dude at my old Marina. He had a Carver 356. I have never really been a Carver fan but I was pretty damn impressed with that boat. I have kept my eye on that particular model over the years. And then this one came and found me. It turns out it was exactly the same boat I had been on 10 years ago. I don't think he had done a single thing maintenance wise for those ten years. Anywah, it pretty much checks all my boxes...big enough but not too big. Fast enough. It is not hideously ugly like many Carvers...in fact it is almost handsome...not a bad looking boat. And it negates one of the worst things about an act cabin boat. It has molded in STEPS to a big nice swim platform. I bought it 1)because I have always liked the boat. 2)I got it cheap!!! I have only had it for two years and it is a wonderful traveling boat...very comfortable.

That's all I got!!! I keep thinking I will sell it soon...make a bit of money off of it. And get something else...but then I think....WHY??? This boat has all I need. And I can't really think of any other boat within a reasonable price range that could do any better. So I'm stuck with it...

PS...Tom and Bess....you might look at a 355 or 356. A lot of boat for the money and you will have your speed if you want it.
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Old 07-31-2015, 11:35 AM   #31
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Another reminisce came back to mind that occurred when I was winnowing down my criteria for a purchase.

I was at a yachtclub invasion with my Niece and Nephew. Walking down the dock I spied an old Mainship 34 Mklll. I had considered them, but they always seemed 'so old' that I wouldn't want one.

Then I met the older couple onboard. They invited my wife and I aboard. It was so obvious that they could overlook the spider cracks in the gelcoat, the soft decks in spots, and the tired engine. They were having an absolute ball with their old boat. I realized that the amount of 'shiny flashy stuff' means something to others, and less to me.

It really is about what You want in a boat. And how CDO you are in accepting whats out there. (that's OCD in alphabetical order)
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Old 07-31-2015, 11:41 AM   #32
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PS...Tom and Bess....you might look at a 355 or 356. A lot of boat for the money and you will have your speed if you want it.
Been ogling over a 450.....a little over our budget and luckily is under contract now!! (not by us)
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Old 07-31-2015, 12:05 PM   #33
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Well, one of our problems is that it doesn't matter how many boats we own, we'll always see more that we'd like to have.

However, I think our key was approaching it very businesslike.

Phase I of any project of this magnitude is defining the requirements. What do we want to get out of the boat, how do we intend to use it. Phase I is general requirements.

Phase II is then more specific requirements. Phase I might say, ourselves plus one couple and occasionally a second couple. Phase II would say two or three cabins. Phase I might say outside living area, but Phase II might say flybridge. Phase I might say, capable of doing the loop, but Phase II would have both draft and air draft limitations. While Phase I might include where we wanted to go, Phase II might narrow hull material down.

Phase III was to compare boats to our requirements. This was extensive spread sheets. We put hundreds of boats on the spreadsheets over time. On all those boats we evaluated them in around 40 areas. This included specifications like gallons per nm or nm per gallon at multiple speeds or WOT speed or Cruising speed or range, but it also included comments like for Galley "Upper galley. Very nice. L shaped plus island. Very open.

Now this sounds tedious but it really wasn't because we were looking at hundreds of boats on line and many in person. We read hundreds of reviews, found tests.

That brings us to Phase IV which is narrow down to a few leading contenders.

Then Phase V was further due diligence. This is where chartering came in big for us, as well as some demo rides. We chartered 9 boats and took rides on 6 others over time. This was in searching for more than one boat. Also some of the charters weren't for determining what to buy but waiting for it.

Every boat is a compromise but a key to us was being sure we could live or could not live with the compromise. Some were things we knew from the beginning and others we only became aware of during the process. Many of these things are fine for others and aren't inherently bad, just not for us. A couple of examples. In a cruising boat for us must be Galley Up. (Day boat fine down). Minimum cruising speed really was established during chartering. We were just not happy at 8, 10, or 12 knots. 15 was minimal and 20 became the target. And here's a quirky one. No ladders, only steps between decks. We know people are happy all the time with ladders to the bridge, but we just couldn't be comfortable. Now that doesn't mean you can't but with a ladder and change it.

Last, if the boat doesn't fit, you must admit. You can't force things. You can't mandate a timetable. We've all learned the negatives of schedules in cruising. Well, they're negative in selecting a boat as well. Our longest to date was from first looking until delivery 2 years, and we're normally people who move quickly. But we haven't yet purchased the boat that will come closest to fitting in here and we've been at this now approaching 3 years. This is the boat we'll use to do the loop and inland rivers. We've come close to a selection, but something would lead us away from each. We came very close to a custom build but then some ownership changes in the builder changed that. Finally, we're down again to two boats. One wasn't even available when we started and the other was on our list from day one.

I know our method sounds a bit dismissive of the personal side and emotional side of things, but it wasn't. Our spreadsheets include words like fugly. You can imagine with my wife there are some colorful descriptions of aspects of boats. Things like "Kitchen by K-Mart" and "I don't think that's real wood. No tree could grow s... that ugly." Or this one on a boat we did purchase, "Old maidish and not sexy at all on the outside, looks just like a bazillion others, but it sure does work inside. Wish it had curvy lines and a real figure but then it wouldn't have all the space and once you're on it, the decks and such are what's important, plus the outside won't get old. It already is. I mean like lot's of other boats look the same but that might just be because it works so freaking well. I'm more than cool with it."

We've been happy with what we've chosen to this point. We credit the process.
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Old 07-31-2015, 12:19 PM   #34
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Gosh BB - That's the longest breath (breadth) to still say "compromise" - LOL Art
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Old 07-31-2015, 12:33 PM   #35
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Been ogling over a 450.....a little over our budget and luckily is under contract now!! (not by us)
Just be careful. When they get that big, if you want to plane, that fuel consumption starts getting pretty crazy. Also in the Carvers, if that is what you were talking about, they get that big and they started running out of engine options. For some reason they didn't use Cats. Cummins ended with the C series at 450hp Which should be enough to power a 45 footer(not familiar with a 450 or I am forgetting). Then the Volvos took over in the middle of the decade.
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Old 07-31-2015, 12:40 PM   #36
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we've been perfectly happy with our 35 foot sundeck for the past five years, until we looked at a 40' Europa. We like the one level cockpit and salon vs all the steps and the raised aft deck on ours. However the tradeoff is that tall ladder to the flybridge. We'd love a pilot house but most are way larger boats than we need or want to maintain.
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Old 07-31-2015, 12:59 PM   #37
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we've been perfectly happy with our 35 foot sundeck for the past five years, until we looked at .....
That's where it starts!! Our insurance guy accused me of "lusting after another man's boat". It was true, I'll admit it.
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Old 07-31-2015, 01:09 PM   #38
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Gosh BB - That's the longest breath (breadth) to still say "compromise" - LOL Art
Wifey B: Well, he can be funny, but for real that's the process we did it. Obsessive a bit perhaps, but I've learned his methods work. Better than me spotting one and just saying, "Oooh..ohhh...ohhh....that's hot....I want one of those". With that method, we'd have a Fountain or Nortech probably.
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Old 07-31-2015, 01:12 PM   #39
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[QUOTE=Art;353685]I recommend you look at some Tollycraft boats./QUOTE]

Ah yes, Tollycraft.
I have a couple of Tolly tales:

Gorgeous May long weekend, early eighties.
The only 2 boats in the world, rafted on the hook in the mid morning stillness and gentle mist of Chatterbox Falls, Princess Louisa Inlet.

The silence is compromised by a distant drone of reverberating, synced twins that grew and became amplified by steep surrounding mountains. We watched and waited for 10 maybe 15 minutes until, out from behind Hamilton Island appeared a giant arced bow wave followed by an as yet unknown boat; flat out WOT galloping like the lead horse in the Oklahoma Land Grab.

An amazing feast of sight and sound.
Tollycraft!
One of the first non commercial boats built specifically for the coastal waters north of the Columbia River.

This was the new owners first significant cruise out of the Seattle area, I don't recall just where and as he later related, conditions begged him, for the first time, to shove those throttles as far forward as they could go.

In the mid eighties, before the Kelso plant was sold I asked and was given permission to have my PS class tour the facility. "Tolly" himself was there and I don't recall ever seeing a grin as big as his that day.

I've always liked the Tolly but for one reason or another haven't kept it at the top of any list. Although "four fifty four" is a significant deterrent when pondering a six buck gallon. The 40 in Princess Louisa, with crusaders, hit 48 GPH on that gallop. I've owned other boats with 454s and I could watch the needle fall.
Restraint is not my best quality.
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Old 07-31-2015, 01:16 PM   #40
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we've been perfectly happy with our 35 foot sundeck for the past five years, until we looked at a 40' Europa. We like the one level cockpit and salon vs all the steps and the raised aft deck on ours. However the tradeoff is that tall ladder to the flybridge. We'd love a pilot house but most are way larger boats than we need or want to maintain.
Yep....I am ultimately a sedan/Europa type of person. But you take a HUGE hit in living space and there are almost no planing sedans. Yes the newer GB Europas plane but they are WAY out of my price range. So what I am left with in a planing sedan is a sport fish. Nothing necessarily wrong with them. But again, if I go older, I am stuck with big detroits. Newer, I am stuck with a big price tag. Also, I really don't mind the 2000ish vintage Sea Ray Sedan Bridges. Not inherently ugly boats and usually Cat power...3416s I think. But in the end, I would end up paying almost four times what I paid for my current boat and my current boat is doing pretty well for me. There is also newer Carver sedans but I just can't hack their appearance. They are hideous....sorry if anyone is offended by that...just an opinion. And they are usually Volvo powered. Meridian made a good sedan. And Silverton made a decent convertible....it was really more cruiser than sport fish...swim platform and all. So in the "trawler" style, there are not a lot of choices when it comes to planing sedan. I guess the Sabre and Eastbays too but again, you are getting pricey!!! And they sacrifice space for beauty!!!....as does the GB Europa!! The Sabres and Eastbays and GB Europas are some of the prettiest boats made. BUT...you sacrifice space for that beauty...money too.

PS....the speed thing is just personal to me...and I am just rambling on here. I will slow down in retirement. Until then....
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