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Old 03-14-2016, 05:40 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by seakuv View Post
Perhaps not nearly as much as one might think or hope. The recent recovery and subsequent government destruction of a 96' wooden tug that sank here in Juneau cost over $2,000,000. Sure, it was a big boat, but the costs associated with environmental cleanup or disposal can be far higher that what one might guess.
I figure the $9 million or $12 or $15 or whatever it ended up could all be put to use. I know of some in South Florida that have been ignored because their cost would be $500k. It could definitely make it a worthwhile business for some people to get into.
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Old 03-14-2016, 05:55 PM   #22
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There used to be cheap moorage and quite widely availible but more and more insurance and dock quality came about probably as a result of some do-good local politician that thought boat floats should be nice like the ones at his yacht club. So the laws got more and more restrictive. And the old marinas w their old floats got torn out. Same w housing. Condemning old houses and build cheap houses that last not 1/4 of the time the old houses did. The rich people control the world and are offended by others not like them and those rich people make laws that force others to conform even at their expense.

So Pgitug try and come up w some solution to the problem that dosn't involve the good people paying for the irresponsible.
I may be wrong but it seems to me that the increased requirements, such as requiring insurance and minimum dock standards have not been because politicians like things nice and pretty, but because the devastating consequences of fires and spills.
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Old 03-14-2016, 06:54 PM   #23
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Dave,
But still the rich chop up and destroy the infastructure of the poor by making the only affordable houses, apartments or boat moorages match their standard of living. And the poor pay more and more and more. I say if they want to have nice new safe apartments, houses and boat moorage then let them pay for it. I was fine w moorage in the sloughs of the Snohomish River between Everett and Marysville WA. There was mud in the parking lot and the floats didn't float so good some having a pronounced list. One needed to watch out for nails and slipry spots. Sometimes one used a pond dog for a mooring cleat. And when I was a young man the floats in Everett were heavy wood planks attached to logs underneath. I'd gladly go back to what I describe above for the cheap moorage. I think the port of Everett should have kept the old infastructure in 1/2 of the marina and built the new concrete floats and aluminum ramps for those that wanted and could afford to support the nice new stuff. But taking things away from the poor because they don't live up to the standards of infastructure that the rich are accustomed to is some sort of stealing.
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Old 03-14-2016, 07:44 PM   #24
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I believe any boat that requires registration should be required to carry liability insurance. That would include a 16' runabout. Would not, in most places, include the row boat or sailing dinghy.

I do not feel bicycles should be required to have liability insurance as they aren't motorized. Put a motor on one and then it generally requires a tag and insurance.

Just think a consistency between boats and autos makes sense.
Somehow I'm missing the risk / liability of a 16' runabout with the 10 HP outboard doing 12 knots compared to the car on the interstate. Think this would penalize who can least afford it. Certainly understand the need for requiring it of the go fast tender crowd

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Old 03-14-2016, 07:55 PM   #25
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This seems easy to me - any boat with registration has to carry liability insurance. It would be dirt cheap for all but the biggest baddest go fasts. If you get drunk and run into me in the middle of the night there is no reason I should be on the hook for repairs because you are leveraged to the hilt.

Have a state fund for removal of derelict boats - tag it on as a separate line item in your registration fees and put it into a fund that can't be diverted. I think most would be more than happy to pay a few bucks every year provided that money always goes to clean up and shows visible progress.
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Old 03-14-2016, 08:22 PM   #26
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Somehow I'm missing the risk / liability of a 16' runabout with the 10 HP outboard doing 12 knots compared to the car on the interstate. Think this would penalize who can least afford it. Certainly understand the need for requiring it of the go fast tender crowd

Ted
Ted..agree....boating sure has become overly complicated on many levels.

Ranks right up there with making poor, little old 65 year olds sit though 6 hours at night listening to me rant about boating safety and then shove a test down their throats just to operate their 30 year old tin boat....

Like they are going to change their boating habits after that.....might as well have water boarded them too...
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Old 03-14-2016, 08:41 PM   #27
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This seems easy to me - any boat with registration has to carry liability insurance. It would be dirt cheap for all but the biggest baddest go fasts. If you get drunk and run into me in the middle of the night there is no reason I should be on the hook for repairs because you are leveraged to the hilt.
In my case the insurance for my 16' runabout is free. My homeowners insurance covers the liability on small boats below 10 or 15 HP. The problem comes into play if you're low income or retired on fix income and don't have homeowners insurance. The liability policy should be under $50. Don't think you are going to see affordable stand alone policies as the $$ are too small.

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Old 03-14-2016, 08:44 PM   #28
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So the person with a 16' runabout, a row boat, or sailing dingy needs to have insurance? How do you feel about bicycle liability insurance?

Ted
A motorized boat should be required to have liability insurance. That 16' runabout can kill someone if operated carelessly.

Bicycle liability insurance? I doubt it will ever happen but we were in Baltimore, MD a couple years ago at the Inner Harbor and bicyclists were speeding on the sidewalks and I think one could put you in the hospital.
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Old 03-14-2016, 08:46 PM   #29
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Ranks right up there with making poor, little old 65 year olds sit though 6 hours at night listening to me rant about boating safety and then shove a test down their throats just to operate their 30 year old tin boat....

Like they are going to change their boating habits after that.....might as well have water boarded them too...
At least here in WA, old-timers are grandfathered in and don't need to get a boating safety card. Anyone born prior to 1955 does not need to get the card. So I had to do it since I was born in 1958. Didn't bother me a bit. I could do the course and take the test online, and getting a refresher never hurt anyone and could possibly help save someone from harm.
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Old 03-14-2016, 08:53 PM   #30
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Somehow I'm missing the risk / liability of a 16' runabout with the 10 HP outboard doing 12 knots compared to the car on the interstate. Think this would penalize who can least afford it. Certainly understand the need for requiring it of the go fast tender crowd

Ted
If the risk is low, the premiums would be low. It's a matter of being responsible for your actions. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Old 03-14-2016, 08:58 PM   #31
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At least here in WA, old-timers are grandfathered in and don't need to get a boating safety card. Anyone born prior to 1955 needs to get the card. So I had to do it since I was born in 1958. Didn't bother me a bit. I could do the course and take the test online, and getting a refresher never hurt anyone and could possibly help save someone from harm.
Yeah...I get it...don't forget some here....actually most here are pretty smart.

The last guy I sat down with to get through the test probably never graduated grade school, reat at the 4th grade level and worked hard all, day, maybe in the hot sun at 65 and still struggled with the program. Never complained one tiny bit, like the rich, young punks who thought they knew it all.

While I agree with the issue of liability and being a fair society...the last thing this guy needed after a lifetime of decent, hard work would be to make his favorite pastime any more costly or complicated.

I am far from a bleeding heart but I really felt for this guy and many others I put through that course.

Boating for the most part is way easier than most want to make it....it often is only the arrogant and reckless that make it harder than it is.
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Old 03-14-2016, 09:01 PM   #32
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I found an error in my post above, fixed it.
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Old 03-14-2016, 09:12 PM   #33
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I found an error in my post above, fixed it.
I guessed.....

Unfortunately NJ grandfathered in the old guys for a few years hoping that after around 60...most wouldn't be opersting boats...but ultimately EVERYONE had to get their card.. Again I get it in today's world....it was just tough seeing some struggle with classroom work when practical stuff on the water they knew just fine when questioned on the side.
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Old 03-14-2016, 09:15 PM   #34
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I guessed.....

Unfortunately NJ grandfathered in the old guys for a few years hoping that after around 60...most wouldn't be opersting boats...but ultimately EVERYONE had to get their card.. Again I get it in today's world....it was just tough seeing some struggle with classroom work when practical stuff on the water they knew just fine when questioned on the side.
Yours must be much more complicated than the Ohio one. The gist of it was the laws about overboard discharge, overtaking, and red right returning.
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Old 03-14-2016, 09:20 PM   #35
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If the risk is low, the premiums would be low. It's a matter of being responsible for your actions. Nothing more, nothing less.
Think your missing the picture. The risk / liability is all but zero. The insurance companies have determined that. That's why my homeowners insurance covers my 16' boat for zero additional charge.

Nobody is arguing personal responsibility. We are discussing the need for a policy that the insurance industry determines is an insignificant risk.

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Old 03-14-2016, 09:20 PM   #36
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Yours must be much more complicated than the Ohio one. The gist of it was the laws about overboard discharge, overtaking, and red right returning.
Could be a lot harder...but they all are hard when you haven't been in a classroom for more than a few years and not for over 50 or more years.

Hard to see the world sometimes through the eyes of some that share our passions but not out resources or educations by a longshot.

But the refreshing thing was when read the questions, even without the multiple guesses, the vast majority of these people who struggled with the written test had no problem answering the questions. Especially the operating related questions.

But back to the question of insurance for all boats...I guess if you force insurance companies to offer insurance to these groups of lower income boaters..like NJ did for cars....it might not be too restrictive...even though NJ has a large number of uninsured motorists on the road
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Old 03-15-2016, 12:59 AM   #37
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Greetings,
"...all the owner had to do was say that he sold the boat and doesn't own it any more." OK. Where's your receipt for the sale? Where is the documentation for the transfer of ownership?

In some jurisdictions, car ownership remains registered under the sellers name until said ownership is officially transferred at the local DMV office. Not a big deal to apply that to boat ownerships. That way, the seller would be fully responsible for any costs for removal of the derelict vessel. Pleading ignorance would not be an excuse and seldom is in the eyes of the law. No documentation? You're responsible!
And next you will say that if you live in Ft. Pierce , that Ace mechanic must get to your boat in less than three weeks!
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Old 03-15-2016, 01:02 AM   #38
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OK. I'll get serious.

If they force insurance on ALL boats, who do you think will end up paying??

YOU. Your insurance rates will DOUBLE. Why, because the pool of boats is so much smaller than for cars AND we who pay insurance, pay for those who don't.
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Old 03-15-2016, 01:59 AM   #39
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OK. I'll get serious.

If they force insurance on ALL boats, who do you think will end up paying??

YOU. Your insurance rates will DOUBLE. Why, because the pool of boats is so much smaller than for cars AND we who pay insurance, pay for those who don't.
We already pay for those who don't. My policy has coverage for uninsured boaters, just like uninsured motorists.
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Old 03-15-2016, 04:08 AM   #40
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It is a bit of a canard to say that, by having uninsured motorist or boater insurance we are "paying for those who don't [have insurance]. We are not. We are paying for coverage for us, whether medical expense, loss of income or whatever, when we are the victim of an accident with an uninsured. In the insurance world, when a guy hits you, his insurance company pays all the bills. If he has no insurance, you pay all your own bills. With uninsured coverage, your insurance company pays those bills. So, in a sense we "pay" for his refusal to have coverage, but he not only gets no benefit, your insurance company will immediately be after him for reimbursement. And the cost of uninsured coverage is a very, very small portion of your insurance bill, in my case, less than 3% of the total bill.
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