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Old 08-21-2018, 08:59 AM   #1
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Should I buy or walk

I put a deposit on a 43 foot Marine Trader yesterday. I was excited about the boat but when I went down to look at it again I found some files on the boat by the helm. Inside a folder was a 2017 survey listing the boat as Fair to Poor condition and putting a value on it of 50,000.

The boat had two PO in the past 3 years one sold it to the other about two and a half years ago Feb. 2016. I was able to talk to him and he loved the boat but the wife said it had to go. He put about 20,000 into the boat. I was provided a copy of this survey. No big issues on that survey the biggest one was frozen sea cocks, and blisters. The boat was rated as good to fair condition then and valued at 72,000.

The current owner a Marine who's been relocated, sold it about a year ago but the deal fell through, I was told that the guy who was looking at the boat then had retained the survey and it wasn't available. This is the survey i found.

The Broker is busy and has a lot of boats to show daily, I don't believe he realized that he had a copy of the most recent survey since it was with all of the latest boat papers probably planning on giving it to me?? The Brokers office is right next to the boat and I don't see him as someone who could hide things and then say hello to me daily on the way to the boat.

I know of the inherent problems with the Marine Trader and this boat has a few of the symptoms but since it's in a dry climate most of the window leaks and wood damage is minimal. I really like the layout of this boat and the twin Lehmans which checked out good in the 2016 survey.

The two PO used the boat to stay on in the Marina and didn't take it out much. I am more of a boater fisherman and will use it at Sea a lot. I can do wood work and fiberglass work and know that a 50,000 dollar boat is a "project"

Here is the listing.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198.../#.W3dvlIGPLrd

Both surveys list 50 or so dime size blisters and frozen sea cocks. The most recent survey lists low freshwater pressure, Heads don't flush, weeping macerator, it is critical of things like wing nuts on the batteries and seems to be a bit nit picky but does list a few items of concern to me other than those listed above
Gland Temp of 150 Cutlass bearing slight play hull valves offline need permanently capped.

Sea Trial is Thursday and my survey will be done in a few weeks.

I am a newbie to large boats and Trawlers, give me your thoughts, should I pay for another survey or look for another boat?
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Old 08-21-2018, 11:46 AM   #2
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Should I buy or walk

I put a deposit down on a 43 Marine Trader yesterday. I wanted to look at the boat again so the Broker let me go down and get aboard without him. Once aboard I found some paperwork by the helm and several folders, I opened one and found a recent survey dated Dec.2017. This survey wasn't " available" according to the Broker since that deal had fallen through and the previous buyer didn't want to relinquish it. I was given a survey dated 2-04-2016. Where there were some issues but the boats Value was listed at 72,000 and it was in Fair Condition.

The Survey I found dated De. 2017 the boat was listed as in fair to poor condition.

The boat history is it had one long term owner who was from AZ and lived on it in San Diego for many years. He then sold it to Owner 2 who had it for a year, spent 20,000 on upgrades then sold it to owner 3 who is a Marine who's was recently transferred to Virginia a while ago.

The most recent survey lists more serious issues like low water pressure, toilets don't flush, 50 dime size blisters, Macerator weeping, cutlass bearing slight play starboard side, gland temp 155, ball cocks forzen to less serious issues like wing nuts on the battery's.

The other Survey covers the packing, blisters, ball cocks frozen and some other issues but nothing major.

The Brokers office is near the boat and encouraged me to keep the slip there, he's very busy and I think he simply didn't see this survey buried in all the paper work.

I know all boats (especially Marine Traders) in the 50,000 range will need work and planned on putting in some time getting it ready for voyages, I do woodwork, fiberglass work. The Lehmans are in good condition and the motor survey from 2016 was good and some things like exhaust, hoses and belts are all new.

Should I be alarmed at a fair to poor rating? I think the boat looks good, and the value is less than what I thought but almost what I am paying.

Sorry so long for my first post but give me your ideas. https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198.../#.W3dvlIGPLrd
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Old 08-21-2018, 11:57 AM   #3
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None of the "serious" issues seem serious to me. They are normal day to day problems on any boat. Some surveyors are too cautious in their wording. If that's all two surveys found then go for it and enjoy.
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Old 08-21-2018, 12:02 PM   #4
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I don't believe any of the items you listed are "serious" issues--sounds like very typical maintenance matters to be found when buying an older, used boat.
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Old 08-21-2018, 12:09 PM   #5
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I agree that none of the listed problems are serious but rather a few days work for someone that is handy. Just routine maintenance that has not been done. The 50 dime sized blisters are a couple of days work grinding and filling them. I have had boats that had a lot more blisters but if they are small they are easy to fix. For the price and age it looks pretty good to me.
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Old 08-21-2018, 12:09 PM   #6
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Looks pretty good for a 33 year old boat. All the survey listed items seem easy and inexpensive enough to repair with the exception of the blisters. If they need to be repaired, that would be more expensive, but easily doable.

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Old 08-21-2018, 12:24 PM   #7
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Frankly, I am puzzled why a trained surveyor would identify these as serious issues. Fair to poor seems extreme based on the photos and your post. Nice boat!
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Old 08-21-2018, 12:33 PM   #8
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Fuel tanks, fuel tanks, fuel tanks! This is an item most surveyors can't really check because they are covered. So, what did the engine room smell like? And even if they are good now, they eventually will leak and need replacement.
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Old 08-21-2018, 12:37 PM   #9
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If you're in love with the boat and "have" to have it, get a survey done by a surveyor who has experience with those boats.


I'm the kind of boater who wants to use his boat as opposed to the kind who want to work on their boat. I don't mind changing the oil and wash/wax, but I'm not into wood work, don't want to spend all my time working on fixing things that are broken or leak or ……. You get my point.


If you're not in love with it I'd try to get my money back and walk.
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Old 08-21-2018, 01:26 PM   #10
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Survey and tanks

The engine room is very clean as are the engines. A little diesel smell but not bad and nothing in the bilge. The tanks are sitting on each side of each engine and are covered with fiberglass and sound board but they both look accessible to cut out when the time comes and replace with smaller units. I am aware of the problems with the tanks and plan on a budget for replacement.

I just don't see the boat degrading from 2016- 2017 like the survey suggest the previous owner took it to Catalina at least once, ran it in the bay and lived on it for a year or so, he replaced hoses, belts and did maintenance.

It was two different survey companies I was thinking maybe the more critical one was use to newer boats?

the more recent survey (critical one) mentioned ac outlets are not GFCI or weather covered several times, many items I could do in an afternoon, like secure the hot water tank better and install anti chaffing around wires.

The value and the poor rating for the boat overall is concerning and I worry about getting it insured.
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Old 08-21-2018, 01:34 PM   #11
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Greetings,
Mr. D. Welcome aboard. It sounds like you have not had your OWN survey done. I have no idea IF you can get your deposit back. Usually an offer to purchase AND a deposit are conditional on an acceptable survey by the buyer.
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Old 08-21-2018, 01:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derik View Post

The most recent survey lists more serious issues like:

-> low water pressure

-> toilets don't flush

-> 50 dime size blisters

-> Macerator weeping

-> cutlass bearing slight play starboard side

-> gland temp 155

-> ball cocks frozen

-> wing nuts on the batteries
New Pressure water pump and prefilter
New pump for head(s)
Repair blisters (blisters don't sink boats)
Replace macerator
replace cutlass bearing
replace seacocks
replace battery connectors and (most likely replace batteries)

This is all pretty vanilla. Nothing in this survey would scare me off. In fact, if this is all they found, I'd be elated. This would certainly be enough for me to feel confident moving forward with my own surveyor. I'd share the finding with the surveyor and then have him focus on water intrusion and structural integrity.

The real questions are:

What is the asking price?
What is the recommended price on the 2016 survey?
What is the recommended price on the 2017 survey?
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Old 08-21-2018, 01:41 PM   #13
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2016 suggested price was 72,000 2017 suggested price was 50,000.

The boats had some work on it since 2016 and has newer batteries. I don't see it going downhill that fast.
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Old 08-21-2018, 01:45 PM   #14
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I can get my deposit back and my offer of 50k hasn't been accepted yet. We are doing the Sea Trial this week and I am scheduling the survey in a few weeks, ( I am out of town for a while.)

If I decided to get it which I am heavily leaning towards when I have the Survey.. should I get a third opinion or use one of the two previous..
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Old 08-21-2018, 01:46 PM   #15
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There were duplicate Threads; however, the OP was slightly different in each so I merged them.
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Old 08-21-2018, 02:07 PM   #16
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I would get your own surveyor. As to getting insurance it will depend on the survey and your boating experience and credit rating. Most insurance companies will require you to fix the surveyors recommendations. If this is your first boat and you don’t have much boating experience then they may require you to get some training before they will insure it beyond port risk meaning you can’t run the boat out of the slip. Call some companies and ask what they require. Good luck.
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Old 08-21-2018, 03:21 PM   #17
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Not sure if you have a surveyor. Kells is the guy Brokers don’t like, but he is busy.
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Old 08-21-2018, 03:45 PM   #18
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The blisters may not be a big deal.


If the boat has been in the water its whole life and warm water much of the time.... the blisters can be a sign of more serious hydrolysis of the laminates.


Only a REALLY good surveyor will catch that.
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Old 08-21-2018, 06:48 PM   #19
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The surveyor did his job. He identified the deficiencies of the boat. It is not his job to determine how serious the deficiencies are, that’s your job. A 33 year old boat is not likely to get a Bristol or like new rating. I bet by looking at the pictures the best that boat would rate is fair. With so many minor maintenance issues a fair to poor rating seems correct. A poor rating does not necessarily mean a bad boat or a bad deal.

Now I have to say that judging by the pictures alone and the facts presented you have found a pretty decent deal. The issues are minor but need to be addressed, the wood work looks in good shape and the price appears to be in line (I don’t have a good grasp of that particular section of the market). If you like the boat then you should continue with sea trial and survey. When you get your survey back you can use it to renegotiate the price.

I think you are second guessing your self, normal on your first big boat purchase, but you are over reacting, your surveyor will walk you through everything he finds and explain how serious he thinks each item is. At that point a more realistic discussion can be had.
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Old 08-21-2018, 06:58 PM   #20
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Thanks for all of the information! You put my mind at ease a little anyway I think I will proceed and have a third survey done by another company.

I am doing a Sea Trial on Thursday and have several weeks before I have to have the Survey completed. I talked to my current Insurance Co. Boat US about getting Insurance she said worst case they would require something being repaired prior to me taking it out of Port, if it was found to be of significance by the Underwriters but getting Insurance with them would be a non issue. I have had Boat US Insurance since 1998.

The Blisters in both Surveys were gel coat blisters and not significant, dime size and interesting enough there were fewer in 2017 Survey than there were in 2016 Survey. I do plan on taking the boat to Ensenada for some repairs including the blister issue in the next few years.
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