shot gun on board

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

chester613

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
140
Location
USA
I am planning a trip. I want to spend about 1 year on my boat on the east coast. I prefer anchoring out and I am sure to be in some isolated areas at times. I was considering one of those marine grade shot guns for protection. They are st. st. and they come in a waterproof tube. Are there any legal issues I would need to be aware of? I know in NYC, you can't have a gun at all. But, I'm not going to NYC. I will be on the ICW from NJ to Fl. Does anyone else have a weapon on board?
 
You should check the gun laws of every state you will visit. In Texas and Florida you can keep a gun onboard without any license or registration, since you boat is considered your home. Not sure about other states. I believe the NRA website has the laws for every state.

We always have a gun onboard. But, we haven't been to New York yet. Or Massachussetts. Or Illinois.
 
I carry a 10-gauge cannon. ...


 
As I understand it, and I am no lawyer, up and down the east coast of the US, guns can be kept on the boat. Take them off the boat and local rules apply.
 
Drake has given good advice. Check with each state you plan to visit. It's my opinion that you should be good to go. I believe NYC's goofy laws are for handguns, not scatter guns. Good luck!
 
If you don't give anyone a reason to search your boat, then it makes no difference. We firmly believe in the 2nd amendment.
 
Follow safe storage rules (trigger lock or locked cabinet) as it would be embarrassing to be shot by your own gun if an intruder boarded your boat before you returned.

Ted
 
"I would rather be tried by 12 than burried by 6"
 
Guns on board

Good advise here. Check local law before carrying ashore. Be ready to show firearms if boarded by LEO. Every boarding by Coast Guard or Florida Water police has asked "Do you have firearms on board?" Never had a problem. Use common sense and good security with on board firearms. Anchored out use bright strong lights, watch dog and aware of surroundings. Myself I refuse to be a victim. And I am not going to New York!
 
I always have a gun aboard, especially on my fishing boats. Some fish dont come onboard until properly sedated. I've been boarded numerous times by the fish po po and USCG and never been asked if I had a gun. I think they assume we all have one.
 
About 5 years ago we were boarded by the CG near Pensacola, I believe it was a training mission. Before boarding they asked about firearms, I said yes they told me to unload them (two handguns) put them and ammo on the bed. When they boarded one went to them and when he came back up said he had hidden the ammo. They did a quick inspection checked the boats paperwork, when they got back in their dinghy they told me where the ammo was. No questions or other mention about the guns at all.
 
While this has yet to be addressed it would appear that those individual state, or local laws banning firearms may be unconstitutional. The Supreme Court decided last week that (gay marriage issue) if you are granted a right of citizenship in one state that right must be honored in all. My take is that if (as I do) I have a carry permit in Ga. it would be honored in N.Y. Might cost a good bit in legal to battle this one in the courts but I think the recent ruling would certainly allow it.
dan
 
Having cruised the entire east coast several times and anchored in remote places as a habit, I have no idea what good a shotgun will serve unless you plan to do some waterfowl hunting. I have a nice Berretta 12ga semi and left it on shore in storage for 7 years (along with a S&W 38 special and a Makarov 9mm). Do you plan on wearing a helmet and a PFD 24/7 while on board? You will have far,far greater and more likely need for them than a gun by a factor of about 1,000,000, and that sounds conservative come to think of it.
 
I tend to agree with George. Unless one decides to go boating off Somalia or somewhere similar a firearm on a boat for "protection" is, I think, more about the scenarios dreamed up by the gun owner to justify carrying a gun than reality.

We carry a firearm in the floatplane and occasionally on the boat on longer cruises up north but we do so solely as part of our survival kit (plane, required) and as bear protection. We've needed it for bears, never needed it for a hoody-cladded bad guy sneaking onto our boat bent on burglary and bodily harm.

Perhaps the east coast is different with gangs roaming the marinas and anchorages in search of easy targets, I don't know. I've met a lot of guys with carry permits. All of them were very eager to tell me they had one and to show off their Glock or whatever and none of them had ever actually needed to use it.

This is not to say I don't think a person should have a permit or carry a firearm-- people can do what they want to to. But since these days firearms seem to have a way of generating their own trouble and news headlines, why tempt fate unless it's actually needed. So far, recreational boating in the US and Canada does not strike me as an occupation that requires one to have the ability to blaze away at attackers.

If the land surrounding the ICW and other east coast cruising area was home to brown bears we would most likely carry our shotgun on board for when we went ashore, however.:)
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    116.8 KB · Views: 90
A perfectly legal spray can of wasp repellent will shoot 30', blind whoever you hit (at least for 15 minutes) and you cannot be arrested for defending yourself with insect repellent. Bear spray, as I understand it, is actually a fog and will hit you the same as who you spray it at. Once they're screaming in pain a fish billy will quiet them down.
 
Isn't it the USCG that does boardings and searches, at least for the most part?

The USCG does not care about state law. They only care about federal law.

I also believe that state police, if they board you, probably need a search warrant to search your boat.

If it were me, I'd carry the firearm of my choice, and not take it to shore. Do not give state police any reason to search your boat, and go about your happy life.

Myself, I see no reason to checkk with or deal with any state you are traveling in. Now, that might technically be against a law somewhere but i don't really care. If you feel like you want to carry a firearm carry it. Unless you are engaging in some very suspisious behavior you are not going to have an issue.

BTW we are always armed. We carry a Marlin 45-70 lever action. Probably the best bear gun made, and certainlly enough to deal with a human intruder in the unlikely event the need arises.
 
Last edited:
ksanders said:
... BTW we are always armed. We carry a Marlin 45-70 lever action. Probably the best bear gun made, and certainlly enough to deal with a human intruder in the unlikely event the need arises.
Click to expand...

Interesting that there is still interest and practicality for using this 142-year-old cartridge design, admittedly after being improved with more powerful propellant to take advantage of stronger construction of modern arms.
 
Big bears need big holes

markpierce said:
Interesting that there is still interest and practicality for using this 142-year-old cartridge design, admittedly after being improved with more powerful propellant to take advantage of stronger construction of modern arms.
Click to expand...
I prefer 3" 12quage slugs.
 
Marin said:
Perhaps the east coast is different with gangs roaming the marinas and anchorages in search of easy targets, I don't know. I've met a lot of guys with carry permits. All of them were very eager to tell me they had one and to show off their Glock or whatever and none of them had ever actually needed to use it.
Click to expand...

Not an East Coast thing. Southern California has more than their share of bad people. Probably not a problem where you cruise as most bad people prefer temperat climates and victims that come to there general neighborhood.

Ted
 
A friend bought a Marlin 45-70 back in the 1970s. We considered one for bear protection when we started flying floats into SE Alaska and BC in the 1980s. We talked to acquaintances in the Fish and Game Dept. Their reaction was to laugh and say we'd be better off throwing a rock. Their recommendation was for what they'd learned worked best and that was a 12 gauge pump shotgun with an extended capacity magazine. Load alternately with slugs and 00 buck and start shooting when the bear is about 30 feet away and don't stop until the gun is empty. And never aim for the head.. Only the 12 gauge has the massive impact force at close range to actually stop the bear's inertia, they said. I've had to do it with the gun pictures and it works as advertised. The F&G guys use the same type of firearm but they are fitted with pistol grip stocks instead of full stocks. This makes the gun illegal in Canada, however.
 
Last edited:
The challenge we have from a brown bear defense standpoint is penetration, and the ability to deliver mulptiple shots quickly.

Couple this with the need for a compact rifle and you find that a modern lever action rifle fills the bill almost perfectly.

The Marlin lever action 45-70 has become extremely popular in Alaska for just that reason, replacing for many the 12 gauge pump shotgun. There are ammo manufacturers that cater to this need and supply ammunition specifically designed for maximum penetration, and use against dangerous game.

The 12 gauge shotgun also has a following, but it suffers from an amunition problem. The typical large manufacturer 12 gauge slug is designed for use on white tail deer. This fills the need of the eastern US hunter because in some locations the use of rifles is discouraged.

The problem is that a 12 gauge slug designed for a 200 pound deer is not going to penetrate a 800 pound brown bear. If it does penetrate it will not stop the bear from eating you before it dies. While there might be specialty 12 gauge ammo producers out there I do not see this ammo in the stores in Alaska.

Marin you might reconsider your advise regarding starting shooting at the bear at 30' and unloading your gun on it. At 20 miles per hour charging speed the bear will cover 30' in almost exactly one second. I do not think I'll be waiting that long. My tecnnique is to not get myself in situations where I have limited visibility. We go to shore three to four times a day to potty the dogs and have encountered bears. The best technique is to pick places that give you enough visibility to avoid bear encounters.

In full disclosure I have never myself shot a brown bear and never want to. I have killed a black bear at less than 10' away but that bear at 150 lbs was a whole different animal than a brown bear at 800 lbs.

Mark, in terms of what seem like "old" cartriges still being popular that is the case with many very popular cartriges.

The 30-30 started out as a black powder round. 30 caliber, 30 grains of black powder

The 30-06 stands for 30 caliber 1906

The 45 ACP is derived from the 30-06 cut down and was madee popular by the colt model 1911, a gun actually invented by John Browning.
 
Last edited:
Factory 45/70 rounds are all loaded to original maximum pressure ratings, on the off chance that someone will shoot them in an "original" firearm. Pistols were made in 45/70 back in the day when you didnt want to carry ammo for different guns. Same for 44/40. A 45/70 with factory ammo is woefully inadequate for a brown bear. In a modern rifle, built for it, they can be loaded up to be very effective, if you care to do your own reloading. However, you can get the 454 Kasull in pistol or rifle. It exceeds the 45/70 by far. All that being said,,, I shot a brown bear on Kodiac with a flare gun. Long story, but he made a lot of noise whilst running away !!!
 
Just a FYI regarding ballistics and ammo.

ALL factory 45-70 ammo IS NOT loaded to original factory specifiications and pressures.

45-70 ammo built for modern rifles has a huge disclaimer on it and warning not to shoot it in a antique design rifle.

Also looking at factory ammo ballistic tables....

Federal 12 gauge slug, 1650 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle.

Buffalo Bore 454 Casull 1813 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle.

Bufflao Bore 45-70, 3597 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle.
 
Last edited:
My experience is the same as Steve's and my boat gun looks just like Marin's.
 
You are correct, +p is much different. However, I dissagree about the rapid fire ability of a lever gun. A pump is faster. I shoot a winchester custom shop 410 lever action model 94 when quail hunting. I shot a 20 gauge pump (winchester 1200?) until it was to worn out to fix. I have on occasion taken 5 on a covey rise with the lever gun, but rarely. I did it regularly with the pump. 3 was easy. I'm no expert, but I normally shoot about 3 cases of 410 a season, and maybe 2 cases of 20 gauge in a Franchi AL48. A case of 12 gauge will last about 2 seasons (pheasant mostly). I bird hunt a bit :)
 
Apophyge said:
A perfectly legal spray can of wasp repellent will shoot 30', blind whoever you hit (at least for 15 minutes) and you cannot be arrested for defending yourself with insect repellent. Bear spray, as I understand it, is actually a fog and will hit you the same as who you spray it at. Once they're screaming in pain a fish billy will quiet them down.
Click to expand...

Pepper spray can be a fog, stream or something in between, it depends on the design of the product.

A fogged spray makes it easier to hit a target but you have to be close. Spray allows a bit of distance but you still are pretty close in the grand scheme of things. Wind direction and strength is critical for both, but more so, with a fog spray. In any case, using the spray in a confined space like a boat means everyone is going to get affected at some level.

I believe Bear spray is a stream since they want to keep the bear at a greater distance than pepper spray for people which will be used at a closer distance.

I would not bet that you can't be arrested for using wasp spray. It can be considered a weapon and there are plenty of laws that could be applied. Furthermore, if wasp spray caused permanent injury to someone one, even in a defensive situation, a civil lawsuit could result. It will depend on state law.

I THOUGHT that pepper and tear spray was illegal in NY state and likely NY city.

As far as I know, axes are legal in all states and every boat should have an axe on board as fire fighting equipment. :D:D:D

Later,
Dan
 
Wow! There seems to be enough misinformation in this thread to get you either arrested or killed. If not both. :facepalm:
 
kulas44 said:
You are correct, +p is much different. However, I dissagree about the rapid fire ability of a lever gun. A pump is faster. (
Click to expand...

No disagreement a pump is faster than a lever gun.

Actually a pretty good bear defense gun is a browning semi auto in 338 win magnum.

The only reason I don't still own mine is it was too heavy so I tended not to carry it.

What I found for skiff use is that the 45-70 stainless model provides the firepower, the speed, the handling, and the rust resistance to make it the best (for me) compromise.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Snapdragon III
New boarding steps
Replies
7
Views
491
Bmarler
B
B
Californian 34 1981
Replies
1
Views
323
Blissboat
Blissboat
Adopo
US Couple in Caribbean feared dead
2 3
Replies
62
Views
7K
Hippocampus
H
C
Nordic 37 Delivery Passage Questions
Replies
20
Views
2K
Captain BW
C
J
Help a newbie please
Replies
24
Views
2K
Jklotz
J

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom