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Old 05-14-2016, 09:00 AM   #41
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Does your "freedom to travel" include a right to smash your car into someone else? Smash your boat into another boat? Run someone over with your car?
No, it doesn't.
Does your willingness to submit to licensing process guarantee that you will never commit a crime?
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Old 05-14-2016, 09:24 AM   #42
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You can't legislate stupid but you CAN, through legislation and licensing somewhat limit the demonstration of such. I do NOT feel, in any way, that any of my "rights" have been taken away or infringed upon by the necessity for me to have a license for anything.

What licensing means to me is that at some point the license holder has demonstrated that they have/had, at least, the minimum knowledge and capacity to perform the tasks allowed by said license.
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Old 05-14-2016, 10:03 AM   #43
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Right to travel is a fundamental human right, not a privilege granted by a state.
Your example of an electrician or plumber exam is inappropriate. The state has a right to regulate a trade, which is not a God given right like the right to travel. Licensing driving and operating a plane is borderline infringement of human rights too, although one may argue that driver's license is only required on public roads, and that there are alternative ways to exercise you freedom - you can walk. Unfortunately, you cannot walk on water; sailing, or boating, is the only way to travel over water. ..............
It appears you wrote your reply without reading my entire thread. God has nothing to do with your rights, travel or otherwise. Governments regulate your rights. It's part of the cost of living in society.

Even your "God given right" to walk is limited by government. It's illegal to walk on an Interstate highway. It's illegal to walk on restricted military properties.

If you cannot live within society's rules, you should go somewhere where there are no rules.
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Old 05-14-2016, 12:06 PM   #44
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No, it doesn't.
Does your willingness to submit to licensing process guarantee that you will never commit a crime?
Of course not. Nobody ever said it would. You asserted that boat operator licensing interfered with your right to travel. I disagreed. It's a way to assess some minimum level of competence in performing a task that, if performed incorrectly, can be hazardous to other people. Like driving a car or operating a boat. Or wiring a house, or plumbing a gas line. And it provides a mechanism to bar people from the task if they subsequently demonstrate incompetence. It in no way interferes with you "right" to travel, just your "right" to threaten harm to other people.
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Old 05-14-2016, 09:46 PM   #45
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As Peter B noted earlier, Queensland has linked car and boat licensing. Separate tests but same rules for operators: you need to be under 0.05. But if you lose one of them for DUI then you lose both of them. I'm fine with that. I'm simply not going over the limit if I need to drive afterwards.

My greatest fear on the roads or on the water is the other folks in the vicinity. Aggressive nut cases, particularly on the roads, ruined the pleasure of driving years ago. Any laws designed to keep drunks from being a problem on land or water are a net plus. Its not hard to organize your life to be able to enjoy some alcohol as well as travel when and where needed.
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Old 05-16-2016, 08:00 PM   #46
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I've heard shows of radio hosts having themselves tested as they drank on air to increase visibility and the decrease in their reflexes and abilities recorded. That is the huge fallacy, that one is only impacted at .08%. That's just where the law steps in.



.05% or so and there is definitely impact. In transportation jobs .02% is the cutoff.
While its .08 for civilians it's different for Dept Of Transportation workers.
Actually it's .04 for DOT regulated workers. (Which all licensed Mariners are covered by). And this applies like CDL drivers: Even if I'm driving my personal boat, I am subject to the lower level.

So on my boat I am the DD. Until anchored or docked. My boat, my rules. But, Then again, they're my wife, kids/grandkids.
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Old 05-16-2016, 08:16 PM   #47
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While its .08 for civilians it's different for Dept Of Transportation workers.
Actually it's .04 for DOT regulated workers. (Which all licensed Mariners are covered by). And this applies like CDL drivers: Even if I'm driving my personal boat, I am subject to the lower level.

So on my boat I am the DD. Until anchored or docked. My boat, my rules. But, Then again, they're my wife, kids/grandkids.
Highlighted anchored - why is it OK to be over the limit when anchored? What happens if the boat needs to be moved and you are over the limit?

I'm not picking on you - just drawing attention to a potential issue, which laws in our part of the world cover, and I agree with them.
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Old 05-16-2016, 08:17 PM   #48
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Interestin' that no ne has mentioned the use of marijuana or prescription drugs yet....
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Old 05-16-2016, 08:28 PM   #49
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Interestin' that no ne has mentioned the use of marijuana or prescription drugs yet....


bugger now the cats out of the bag
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Old 05-16-2016, 08:32 PM   #50
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Highlighted anchored - why is it OK to be over the limit when anchored? What happens if the boat needs to be moved and you are over the limit?

I'm not picking on you - just drawing attention to a potential issue, which laws in our part of the world cover, and I agree with them.
Anchoring may be different than being on a permanent mooring even though we will get at least a half dozen accounts of moorings failing...

I think the idea is that once moored, there is the assumption that the vessel will not need to be operated. If I am not mistaken, the USCG doesn't count time at anchor for sea hours either.
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Old 05-16-2016, 08:36 PM   #51
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While its .08 for civilians it's different for Dept Of Transportation workers.
Actually it's .04 for DOT regulated workers. (Which all licensed Mariners are covered by). And this applies like CDL drivers: Even if I'm driving my personal boat, I am subject to the lower level.

So on my boat I am the DD. Until anchored or docked. My boat, my rules. But, Then again, they're my wife, kids/grandkids.
Am I right or wrong in thinking that .02 gets you a 24 hour suspension or something? As an employer .02 was our limit I guess and not the legal limit. We use .02 for cars, boats, everything which basically means don't drink.

As far back as 1990, the GAO wrote a very critical report on the USCG enforcement.
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Old 05-16-2016, 08:38 PM   #52
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Interestin' that no ne has mentioned the use of marijuana or prescription drugs yet....
The law is catching up. In WA state you can be fined for refusing a drug test for marijuana the same as you can be fined for refusing a breath test for alcohol. There is a stated legal limit for THC and big penalties if you are operating a boat over those limits, just as alcohol.

For prescription drugs, it comes down to whether you are impaired or not. It is against WA state law to operate a boat while impaired by any drug. It is just that the prescription drugs don't have set limits.

FWIW, I think that the use of marijuana will become an important safety issue for boating just as alcohol abuse is now.

Disclaimers: 1) I have never in my life used any illegal drugs, including marijuana now that it is legal in my state. As such, I cannot speak from experience on this issue. 2) I have a bias such that I think that any recreational use of marijuana is "abuse".
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Old 05-16-2016, 08:41 PM   #53
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Interestin' that no ne has mentioned the use of marijuana or prescription drugs yet....
Well, alcohol is the most abused drug but you're right in pointing out the others, especially now that we have states making marijuana somewhat legal on land. The ability to measure on the others is limited and LEO's don't have anything comparable to a Breathalyzer. I think it's coming though. And in respect to laws, they are even more inadequate on being under the influence of drugs, legal or not. At the current level of Vicodin abuse, it's scary.
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Old 05-16-2016, 08:50 PM   #54
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Sheyenne's Law

At my real job anything over .0000 gets me looking for a new job! But that's to meet Exxon Mobil charter guidelines.

On the personal boat it's .04. But if I were stopped by a local cop or sheriff I doubt they'd know the lower level. But if the USCG got involved..... Ain't gonna risk it.

Regarding at anchor, I have heard anecdotal stories about that. But AFAIK the laws only apply to vessels underway. Meaning not Aground, Moored, Made fast. I think there's a difference between being in a road stead versus tucked away in a harbor with a good bottom and no appreciable wind. But that's what makes the world go 'round. For me it's also if I have the GKs aboard. Or if it's adult time swimming, beaching fishing or just reading a book.

Personally I think the German laws are admirable. If you get ONE dui you lose ALL your licenses for life. No appeal, No Cinderella license, No fancy lawyer. One and done. And this applies to everything with wheels. Even bikes!
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Old 05-16-2016, 09:28 PM   #55
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Ah, licenses. Try practicing medicine without one.
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Old 05-16-2016, 10:36 PM   #56
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Funny country America its easier to buy a big mother fuzker gun than a beer
True dat, we still have our right to have as many guns as we want, guaranteed by the 2nd amendment to our constitution. Can't believe you Aussies gave that up.
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Old 05-16-2016, 11:18 PM   #57
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Funny country America its easier to buy a big mother fuzker gun than a beer

Not quite true. You are viewing politics through left leaning media. I hope AU media isn't as messed up as it is here.

Where is Paul Hogan when you need him?
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Old 05-16-2016, 11:29 PM   #58
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Interestin' that no ne has mentioned the use of marijuana or prescription drugs yet....
Oh yeah
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Old 05-17-2016, 01:50 PM   #59
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Based on what I see on the road everyday, where I assume that most operators are licensed, I'm a little skeptical that licensing is the cure-all. But wholly agree that watercraft operations should be regulated and enforced with the same rigor as vehicular traffic. The gaps in boating enforcement and consequences down this way are rediculous.

I am the DD on my boat, regardless of who has the helm. And any helmsman will be clean as a whistle as well.

Down here, July 4 in particular is really bad. Boats rafted up in confined inlets for the concert/fireworks, jon boats to 70 footers, smoking and joking (and drinking). Then, after the fireworks, everybody cranks up and leaves - kinda like the stadium after the game.

My general rule 1 is stay off the water then. If I happen to be transiting for some reason, I stay away (think miles) from these concentration points. Reminiscent of New Year's Eve with cars. Amateur night.
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Old 05-17-2016, 01:53 PM   #60
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Based on what I see on the road everyday, where I assume that most operators are licensed, I'm a little skeptical that licensing is the cure-all. But wholly agree that watercraft operations should be regulated and enforced with the same rigor as vehicular traffic. The gaps in boating enforcement and consequences down this way are rediculous.

.
Enforcement is the cure. But the point of Sheyenne's Law is that in NC there was not even a decent law to enforce if one wanted to as there was no felony version of a BUI law.
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