She swims!

[BaltimoreLurker]

Hooray, it's almost summer.

 

[skipperdude]

I can't take waiting for summer.

*I have already been out a dozen times this year.

Winter boating in Alaska can be, shall we say interesting and eventfull.

Way to go my friend let the fun begin.

SD*

 

[dwhatty]

I'm jealous. A couple of weeks more to go for us. Enjoy!

 

[JohnP]

Balt, Congrats she looks great.** My neighbor at the dock has a 3 story boat like the one next to you, he was quick to point out it is a 4 story.* I stood corrected.

Have a great Season.* John and Miri P

 

[Woodsong]

Congrats!!!!

 

[markpierce]

I'll try to catch up.

 

[BaltimoreLurker]

Old Stone wrote:
Balt, you look very protected in there. Is your location a tributary, or river? Looks very mellow. Can't wait to see her with the bimini up.

She's tucked up way back on Rock Creek, south of Baltimore.* I live on a point where Stoney Creek (the next creek to the north on the Chesapeake's Western Shore) joins the Patapsco and it was cold and windy yesterday.* So windy that I was considering rescheduling.* But when I went down to the marina, which as you noticed is protected, the wind was hardly noticeable.* Which reminded me of how stinkin' hot it gets there in the summer with no air moving.

Another cold and dreary day today, too.* But Monday, when I have to be back in the office, it's supposed to be calm, sunny and in the mid 70's.* Oh, well.

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[BaltimoreLurker]

Old Stone wrote:So does everyone pull out of the water for the winter down there? I am trying to figure out how far South is the actual line is where one can stay in the water for the winter and stay aboard in relative comfort. We are heading South this fall, but I don't necessarily need to get all the way to Fla.

Pretty much everyone either gets their boat out of the water, up on a lift, under cover or surrounded by bubblers here.

Power Boats start coming out after Labor Day.* I have mine pulled usually around Thanksgiving Day weekend and there are few boats left in the water by then.

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[Moonstruck]

Old Stone wrote:\*

So does everyone pull out of the water for the winter down there? I am trying to figure out how far South is the actual line is where one can stay in the water for the winter and stay aboard in relative comfort. We are heading South this fall, but I don't necessarily need to get all the way to Fla.

*Carl, probably about the VA/NC line to be ice free.* NC is certainly doabe for a live aboard.* Probably from SC on it should be pretty comfortable.* A lot of nice days in the winter, but also cold snaps.* Beaufort, SC and Hilton Head are great.* Fernandina Beach would be good.* However, if you are going down that far, get on down to south FL and really enjoy the weather.* Then take*a side trip over to the Abacos.* I may even let you know where my recliner on the beach is.* You would have to take the oath of secrecy.

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[Moonstruck]

Carl, I understand that Hampton VA has a tax but it is insignificant.* They are encouraging boaters.* It is also a good place to stay.* Sheltered and walkable.* It is a good choice if no tax worries.

New Bern, Oriental, and Beaufort age good places in NC.* Beufort and Hilton Head as well as Charleston are great in SC.* Isle of Hope Marina in Savannah is good, but a little out of the way.* Golden Isles, Jekyll, and Brunswick could also be pretty good.* These are just my opinions.* Hopefully, you will get many more to consider.

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[Peter B]

Hi, Darrell, posting from London at present. We are off finally our our equivalent to Bill and Ted's excellent adventure. Just did Ferrari World in Dubai on the way. Interesting area. Challenging driving the way you people do on what we call the wrong side of the road - 'course you all say the same re us - it's what you are used to, I guess. But yes...it was 'interesting', I wish I could say it came quite naturally to me, like Marin feels when he drives in the UK, but it decidedly did not, but we mucked through and got the hang of it, and praise the Lord for GPS. Although the fact the chip was quite out of date re many major road interchanges made for interesting times as well. Ferrari world was fantastic, and the road down from Dubai to Abu Dhabi was incredible - 6 lanes most of the way.
Anyway back the the boat. She's lookin' good. However, looking at her derriere, so to speak, I have to say Darrell, it just cries out for that cockpit and side decks canopy extension like we did to ours, which is virtually identical to your boat. We still feel it was the best thing we ever did so far, in terms of improving the comfort out in sun and rain. I think it's a mod which would add more in re-sale that it costs to do really.
Regards,

 

[Per]

Congrats.
she looks ready for some good times...

 

[BaltimoreLurker]

Peter B wrote:
Anyway back the the boat. She's lookin' good. However, looking at her derriere, so to speak, I have to say Darrell, it just cries out for that cockpit and side decks canopy extension like we did to ours, which is virtually identical to your boat. We still feel it was the best thing we ever did so far, in terms of improving the comfort out in sun and rain. I think it's a mod which would add more in re-sale that it costs to do really.

*Peter:

I love the idea of the side deck and cockpit canopies.* And, if "Moon Dance" becomes a long term keeper I will do it.* But at present I'm undecided what to do with her.*

Among the options: 1) drive her 'till she drops (like I do with cars) 2) start pouring money into her over the next few (5 - 10) years to address the serious, but not immediate, problems (deck & house core rot) 3) Sell her for whatever I can get and get a newer, less beat up boat.* I really, really like the 36' Europa style of this family (MT, IG, CHB, etc)

I bought her knowing the problems she had but wanted a relatively inexpensive boat for practice and experimentation.* If I had waited another year to when the market completely fell apart I could have either paid much less or gotten a better boat.* There are some outstanding deals out there! But right now it's a tough call - bail out and get a newer boat or start investing in this one?

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[BaltimoreLurker]

Per wrote:
Congrats.
she looks ready for some good times...

Thanks.* She is quite the party barge.* My co-workers have been hounding me* for another Off-Site Team Building excursion to a favorite watering hole.* We did 2 last year. The company picks up the tab for food & beverages.* It has been suggested that I stop at the fuel dock on the way out and top off the tanks.* I'm not sure I want to push my luck!

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[BaltimoreLurker]

Old Stone wrote:Yikes Balt! - Probably the toughest question of all. When to get rid of her. Wait too long for something big to go wrong. and you can't give it away. Put too much money into it over time and look back and regret it? If you enjoy her now, why not put her up for sale and see if anything happens? The Forum has had that discussion of whether to sell first, then buy, or visa versa. If you are happy with her now, you will likely hold out for the best selling price because you don't have to sell. Even though the economy is weak, you can always find a great deal out there to buy, it is just either good luck, or a lot of searching. Your model MT is a lot of fun, very simple to maintain, so hard to think of getting rid of, so I don't envy your predicament! Meanwhile, just plain enjoy her, she's a beauty! And hey - If the company wants to put some fuel in her, why not? Only thing I have found is that if the fuel tanks have not been replaced, be careful about filling her to the top. Often, the pressure of filling to tanks will cause the top of the tank to expose some pinholes and really be a pain. They mostly rust from the top, but you can't tell it until they are under pressure, so just a suggestion.

I should consider myself fortunate that I have such a quandary!* Oh, dear, should I sell my boat and buy a newer/bigger one?* Many people would kill to be in such a predicament!

Fortunately, the fuel tanks have all been replaced with plastic units by the PO.** So that's one issue I think I'll never have to address.* The FL120 seems rock solid. Extensive core rot in the decks and house are, I believe, the only things I have to worry about.* I don't see water coming in from below the waterline anywhere.* But when it rains the bilge pump starts working overtime.

I have a more than full time job so I'm in no position to do the repairs myself and I have no idea of the cost to have it done professionally - $20k? $40k?* I can't imagine I can even get a good estimate as it's one of those things that the more you dive into it the more problems you find.

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[FF]

"Extensive core rot in the decks and house are, I believe, the only things I have to worry about. I don't see water coming in from below the waterline anywhere.

I have a more than full time job so I'm in no position to do the repairs myself and I have no idea of the cost to have it done professionally - $20k? $40k? "


Planning on what you need as a "repair" will be hard , finding someone to to a quality job you can afford will be much harder.

Anyone with the skills and ability to properly assay the damage , understand the level of repair you desire and actually do the work will not be a minimum wage person. You will be paying for a decade (at least) of experience, and a huge variety of skills.

Keeping the boat inshore only , no waves flopping on deck , no combers pounding on the pilot house would be a start.

Deciding on the term of longevity of the repair another.

Cosmetic look after repairs one of the most expensive decisions..


-- Edited by FF on Tuesday 26th of April 2011 10:40:53 AM

 

[BaltimoreLurker]

FF wrote:

Planning on what you need as a "repair" will be hard , finding someone to to a quality job you can afford will be much harder.


Keeping the boat inshore only , no waves flopping on deck , no combers pounding on the pilot house would be a start.

Deciding on the term of longevity of the repair another.

Cosmetic look after repairs one of the most expensive decisions..

You have previously described a repair method I like the sounds of.* It was along the lines of; tear off the teak, lay down a layer of Corecell(?), glass it & forget it.* That may be the optimal solution, all things considered. At least for the decks.

I doubt Moon Dance will ever go offshore.* Certainly not with me aboard! As for longevity, I figure I have 20 years, max, of active boating left in me, and this solution should hold up that long.

Cosmetics? Ha!* I'll get to it eventually.* Maybe.* I'll settle for safe, dry and running.

She's a party barge.* Come to think of it, that would be a good boat name. "Party Barge"* The SO wouldn't allow "Curmudgeon"

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[Peter B]

In the past the suggestion has been made by several, FF and myself included..."It was along the lines of; tear off the teak, lay down a layer of Corecell(?), glass it & forget it. That may be the optimal solution, all things considered. At least for the decks."

Darrell, in effect that was what the PO of Lotus did, and I have to say, it worked. As long as any leaks are fixed once all done, then the damp core becomes something you know is there, but does not really impact on the function in any way. It is sealed in a tomb of glass above and below forever, that's all. Re-coring it seems to me is something that is a prodigious job, has to be very expensive, is dubious value in a vessel that old, (ie cost more than it's worth), and at the end of the day, does not make it work any better, and is an expensive way of making the owner 'feel better.' As to re-sale - yes it might add a bit, but only a fraction of what it cost you to do. My approach when I sell will be to be honest. Explain why the boat was done the way it was, point out it has been fine for the umpteen years since it was done, and the money thus saved was spent on real improvements, like the new hot water, new tanks, canopy extensions and Airbreeze genny...oh, and almost forgot the full hull 2 pack re-spray, and newly painted topsides. *And that this is also why it will be cheaper by far then a new boat, or what they would pay for a 'fancy repaired' equivalent.

Just another way of looking at the same issue....?


-- Edited by Peter B on Wednesday 27th of April 2011 02:38:45 AM

 

[BaltimoreLurker]

Peter B wrote:

Darrell, in effect that was what the PO of Lotus did, and I have to say, it worked.

*Peter:

This does sound like the best solution for my situation.* It seems to be something that I could either do myself or not go broke contracting out.* And, I'm glad to to hear that it's more than theory, it works.*

Did you have core rot issues in the house walls too?* I'd like to find a relatively simple solution for that problem too.

- Darrell

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[BaltimoreLurker]

Old Stone wrote:
Balt - Just a thought, but you say when it rains your bilge pump goes overtime. Do the side walls of your engine room have any stains? If you can't seem to find the source, and there has to be a big one if your pumps go off in the rain, check our your lazarette. Usually, where the deck meets the hull is a good spot to start. Also, check that the drain holes at the channel for the floor hatch are clean. They can clog often, and then any rain goes directly into the laz. I say this only because the laz will automaticall drain into the bilge with no path for you to see. One nice day, hose down the aft deck only, and see if you get any water in the bilge. Again, just a thought.

*Carl - I haven't noticed any stains on the side walls, but I'll look closer.* The lazarette is not a bad idea.* Now that I think of it .... I can't remember even seeing any drain holes in the hatch lip/channel.* Doh!* Man, would that ever be a nice, easy fix!

- Darrell

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[BaltimoreLurker]

Old Stone wrote:
Those drain holes can get so clogged you can't see them when they are full, sneaky little buggers! If they are stuffed, you may need a coat hanger at first, then blast them full force with your hose until you see them pissing out the stern.

*That's such an easy thing to check I'm tempted to run down to the marina at lunch time.

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[FF]

The tear the teak off , bond in core material and glass over is REQUIRED if the deck structure has rotted to the soft and bouncy point.

If the structure is sound enough to not frighten guests from sagging , most any "cure" will be fine for as long as you own the beauty.

 

[BaltimoreLurker]

BaltimoreLurker wrote:Old Stone wrote:
Those drain holes can get so clogged you can't see them when they are full, sneaky little buggers! If they are stuffed, you may need a coat hanger at first, then blast them full force with your hose until you see them pissing out the stern.

*That's such an easy thing to check I'm tempted to run down to the marina at lunch time.

*

Well, I'll be dipped in grits!* Yup, they're there.* Invisible under caked goo.* Is there a stronger word than "clogged"?**

Thanks for the tip!

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[koliver]

BL
Now that you have found the problem, check the method of fastening the lines to those tiny drain holes.
On mine, not only were the holes plugged, but the line attachments had fallen out. this situation had persisted for some time with no correction by the PO, as the bulkhead at the front of the lazarette (the headboard of the bed) had started to rot from frequent wet/dry cycles. That was the first serious fix I had to do when I bought this boat. Since then those holes and the attached lines are on the frequent inspection list.

 

[BaltimoreLurker]

koliver wrote:
BL
Now that you have found the problem, check the method of fastening the lines to those tiny drain holes.
On mine, not only were the holes plugged, but the line attachments had fallen out. this situation had persisted for some time with no correction by the PO, as the bulkhead at the front of the lazarette (the headboard of the bed) had started to rot from frequent wet/dry cycles. That was the first serious fix I had to do when I bought this boat. Since then those holes and the attached lines are on the frequent inspection list.

I got the port side cleared.* Man, those tiny pipes carry a lot of water!* I'm still messing with the starboard one.* I'm going to try to blow it out with an air compressor.* Getting at the fitting on the hull is going to be a real trick if I have to go the route of removing the plumbing for cleaning.

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[BaltimoreLurker]

Old Stone wrote:
Patience Balt - Try NOT to use a compressor. Just keep squirtin' the hose in there, and it will eventually free up. A compressor may blow the line, fitting, or clog it worse.

Hmmm.* OK, then I'm back to rigging up a fitting to attach to the hose.* I tried water, which worked on the port side.* But the starboard side isn't breaking loose with the water pressure I can get just by clamping the hose nozzle to the pipe with my hand.

 

[BaltimoreLurker]

Old Stone wrote:
I believe you can get to detach the upper connection very easily. It's pretty obvious. Try unclamping the drain hose there (at the top) and then from the outside, blast the outlet in the stern with your hose if you can. Don't think that's exactly reverse osmosis, but then again, I don't get to use the word osmosis very often. If you can't reach the stern outlet easily, and IF the drain lines are flexible, undo the offender and sort of bend or twist the hose as far along its length as you can. That might break up the clogs. If it's copper, oviously, disregard.

Did you ever run a hose into the laz yet, just to see if she is draining into your main bilge? Be sure the drain hole at the bottom of the laz bulkhead is clean too. That will often clog with paint flakes, general dirt, etc.

There is a copper elbow below the hatch channel, then 4" of plastic hose, then copper all the way to the hull fitting. With a couple sharp turns on the way. Which is where I'm guessing the blockage is located.* The plastic hose comes right off and I've been working from that point.*

I didn't specifically check to see if the lazarette drained into the bilge, but it must.* There was enough water getting sprayed around in there that if it wasn't draining out I would have been ankle deep by the time I was done. But, I'll check anyhow!

'Ya know, I could just snip the the copper pipe a few inches from the thru-hull and replace the whole damn thing with flexible tubing. Any thoughts on, "why not?"

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[koliver]

Exactly what I did. I used that clear, reinforced stuff, so it looks way cool compared to the opaque stuff it replaced.

 

[Nomad Willy]

My drain hoses are about 1 1/4 to 1 3/8" ID. Sometimes I clear them w a shop vac. The deck drain hardware looks a bit like an old bathtub drain and they catch all kinds of crap. Can't pull it out very well w fingers so I use the shop vac. The hose has those circular reinforcing ridges so I'm not very worried about collapse. My drains are missing the top screen and that adds to the problem. But the shop vac works for me.

 

[BaltimoreLurker]

Old Stone wrote:
Go for it. Make life easy.

Easy, indeed.* Five minutes with a hacksaw, plastic hose and clamps.* After an hour of messing about with pipe cleaners, wrenches & water hoses.

Now I may even be motivated to clean out the crud in the lazerette.