A shame to put it back in the water

[Marin]

This was our boat before we relaunched it yesterday morning. Seems a shame to put it back in the water and hide them again.......

 

[Jolly Time]

Nice Bling Bling!!

 

[Conrad]

Beautiful shot Marin! A candidate for the next header photo I think...

 

[CPseudonym]

Aside from elbow grease, what if anything was applied to the props?

 

[Fotoman]

It's probably a good thing to hide them, somebody would steal them!

 

[Marin]

Aside from elbow grease, what if anything was applied to the props?

Nothing. We use the boat enough that barnacles and whatnot are not much of an issue. Plus we have a dive service check the bottom every six months or so. I did talk to the yard manager this time about prop coatings and he said that while they carry threes types he personally doesn't think any of them are either worth the cost or do a very effective job over time, which jibed with my own opinion. We've never used anything on the running gear in the thirteen years we've owned the boat and saw no reason to start now.

 

[Bilgewater]

Awesome set of wheels, Marin. Did you do it yourself, and what process was used. Envious minds want to know.

 

[Take Five]

Very Nice, I notice you do not have any zincs on the rudders, are they bonded to something else ?
Regards
Graham

 

[Marin]

The rudders are bronze as is the entire steering system in the lazarette. All of it is tied into the bonding system. The boat has two "license" plate zincs on the transom, we run two shaft zincs per shaft, and we have shaft wipers in the engine room.

Our marina has brackish or fresh water on top of it because of a stream emptying into the marina and a large river emptying into the bay so on the advice of our marine electric shop and the dive service we use we, like a lot of other boaters in the marina, also hang a zinc on a heavy cable about six feet down off the stern. The cable is clamped to one of the rudder bars and thus into the bonding system.

 

[Marin]

Awesome set of wheels, Marin. Did you do it yourself, and what process was used. Envious minds want to know.

After discussing the various prop coating options with the yard manager and deciding not to use any of them I told the manager to just "clean off the props and we'll call it good." What they did is what you see in the photos. I have no idea what method they used. So far as I know they did not remove the props to do it. Whatever they did they charged us two hours labor and that's it.

 

[Larry M]

"A shame to put it back in the water"

Not in my book. Boats belong in the water.

 

[baldpaul]

I just had mine done a couple months ago....felt like when I was in the army after being in the field for several weeks and being able to put on fresh underwear...the simple things in life are the most satisfying.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr.baldpaul, welcome aboard if I haven't offered the greeting before. Now let me get this straight...You were in the Canadian army and got underwear? Must have been under a Liberal government surely...

 

[sunchaser]

With everybody bragging on their clean props, please don't overlook the very large rudders on the DeFever in comparison to the much smaller on the Grand Banks. That DeFever is a monster!

 

[Nomad Willy]

Tom,
Relative to the size of the boat I'll bet Willy's got the DF beat for rudder size. Below the water line I personally do'nt see what's so special about the DF. They have a great following so are probably a well designed boat but they seem middle of the road or a bit above average like Art's Tolly. Good boats to be sure but nothing really exceptional jumps out at me when I see them hauled. Looks like the DF's have a high CG but it could'nt be "too" high or their reputation would have gone south quite some time ago. Pic is for rudder size on Willy.

 

[markpierce]

It's nice to have a keep-protected, barn-door rudder.

 

[baldpaul]

Regarding underwear.....yes, 4 pair, green, big hatch in front....very thin material. I still have a couple pair From 1985 I wear on special occasions. Government at the time was Conservative.

 

[Marin]

With everybody bragging on their clean props, please don't overlook the very large rudders on the DeFever in comparison to the much smaller on the Grand Banks. That DeFever is a monster!

Of course the deFever is 13 feet longer and Lord knows how much heavier than the GB. Rudders are nothing but drag, so putting big rudders on a small boat, or putting too-large rudders on a big boat, is not always the smart thing to be doing. I've never felt our boat is not responsive enough to rudder input. If our rudders were on that deFever I would probably feel differently if I was the deFever helmsman.

The trick is to find the right balance (pun intended) between effectivness and drag when it comes to a rudder. On slow boats like ours the drag is not as impactful a factor as it was on, say, a PT boat. But it's a factor nevertheless.

In looking at the photo of the deFever, it appears to me that the relative size of the props to the rudders is about the same as it is on our GB although the deFever's rectangular rudder shape would give them more area than the GBs more tapered rudders if they were all the same size.

 

[Art]

"...they seem middle of the road or a bit above average like Art's Tolly. Good boats to be sure but nothing really exceptional jumps out at me when I see them hauled."

Darn Eric

Due to not having a good pict of our baby girl's pretty private parts, I hadn't even placed my georgious Tolly Baby into this "under the skirt" X-Rated beauty contest... but, then of course, you just had to mention me and, down play our Tolly a bit anyway, now didn't cha?? And after all the wonderful things I say about your wooden boat! Tolly is just shaking her carefree fiberglass head She is pretty shy about her private parts' beauty ya know!

She dosen't blurt it out and very easily expose herself like others. Never would allow me to snap a pict while in the stirrups on the hard!

But, I'm NOT one bit shy!! Tolly and I compliment each other well.

 

[sunchaser]

OK Eric, your Willy is bigger than one of baldpauls, but he has two!~

Mark your protected position is to be noted but get that thing out in the ocean and report back.

Marin, in relation to prop size my applied Cad program gives the edge to the DeFever largely because it is rectangular rather than spade shaped. Inches count!~

And baldpaul, please tell me you have a Bruce anchor?

 

[Nomad Willy]

Marin,
One of the really great things about the DFs rudders is that they are high aspect ratio and much more effective than most for their area. The rudders on your GB do look a bit small. As to the drag .....at 6 knots Willy is almost totally unaffected but when (if ever) you rev up those big Lehman engines prop drag could be at least a small issue. But you would benefit from the DF rudders.
Art,
I've seen lots of Tollies out of the water and the deep V hull that's not very deep is typical of the vast majority of planing hulls designed after "Moppie" trounced all the competition in 1961 at the Miami Nassau power boat 500 mi race. If I remember correctly Tollies have a long straight constant deadrise over most of the length of the hull. Even without a keel your directional stability should be fine and w the Tollies relatively high aspect ratio bottom pitch stability should be excellent even better. The V at the transom should help reduce the need for big rudders in all but the smallest boats.
Mark,
For the size of your boat your rudder is'nt exceptionally large. And I'll bet it's plenty big enough.

 

[Art]

For a look-see at my 34' Tolly tri cabin's vintage of bottom. Not my actual Tolly cause I'm not much into taking picts. Picts you see of our Tolly were likely not taken by me. However, it is the bottom of a same model Tolly.

 

[Marin]

But you would benefit from the DF rudders.

I'm gonna go way out on a limb here, but I betcha that when American Marine designed the GB36 that they went and asked someone real smart how the turny things at the back should be designed. I bet they asked things like "how big should they be," and "what shape should they be." Stuff like that. They might have even had someone like that in the office there in Kowloon. You know, one of them naval architecher-type guys. Since they'd been building boats since right after the ark grounded out on that hill, I bet they knew at least one guy like that.

And I'm betting that guy got out his slide rule and books and tables and charts and thought back to what he'd learned in naval architecher school and did a bunch of calculations and said, "You know, the turny things for your twin engine, 36 foot boat should be this big and look like this."

And I'll bet he had a bunch of numbers and graphs and stuff to prove that he was right. And I'm betting that American Marine built them that way since they'd paid this guy a bunch of money to tell them what to do.

Which means---- I'm betting---- that the turny things on the twin engine GB36 are exactly right for what the boat is supposed to do. Just like I'm betting that the turny things for that deFever are exactly right for what that boat is supposed to do.

Now I don't know nothin' 'bout no naval architecher. What I do know is that when I turn the wheel thingy in our boat that's attached to the those turny thing doohickies, the stern moves sideways right now and right quick. From day one I have been impressed by how responsive the boat is at idle, cruise speed, and even standing still. Them two wee spady bits hanging down in the back do an amazing job of aiming that 30,000 pound boat (we weighed it on the Travelift yesterday) where I want to aim it 'specially seein' as how it's got a big ole keely thing hanging way down underbeneath the boat tryin' to keep it from swinging its ass sideways.

Which is why I'm betting--- and I admit I could be wronger than a turbofan on a Livingston---- that the fellow what designed them two spady bits got the size and shape exactly right for that boat.

A clue what I'm using to think that perhaps I'm right is that they started building that two-engine GB36 back in the 1960s and they builded them until about 2001 or therabouts. And from what I seen in the yard next door I don't think they changed the size or shape of the turny things in all that time. They did change what they made them from. First they was bronze and later they was fiberglass. But I'm pretty sure--- but not a hunnerd percent sure I admit--- that the turny things never changed in all those years. Which you'd a thunk if they'd been the wrong size or shape they'd a figgered that out at some point during them thirty-five years and changed 'em. I don't think they did which means if I'm right that first guy must have been, too.

 

[Art]

Well, double slap my knee, Marin - - > Dere ist som dang gdst humer inst yaa! And, bout thems directional paddels unter yu boat - I agrezz wit cha! Mattr O' Fact I thinks I cud say same dam thang bout my Tolly, i.e. Ed Monk Sr. and Ed Monk Jr. as Tollycraft's deecades serven Navel Ark-e-tects! :lol:

 

[markpierce]

Mark,
For the size of your boat your rudder is'nt exceptionally large. And I'll bet it's plenty big enough.

Eric, let's just say I've nothing to regret with the Coot's responsiveness to rudder adjustments at all speeds, even at two or less knots in the marina. A short burst of power "kicks."

 

[Nomad Willy]

Marin's start'in to sound like Sarah Pailin. All I'm say'in Marin is that I think the GB was conceived as a faster boat than it turned out in the present and was definitely in a faster category than the DeFever. hence the rather large difference in rudder size.
Mark,
All I'm say'in is that your rudder is of average size and I'm sure it works quite well. Not inadequate just not excessively large as I thought you implied.

 

[markpierce]

Mark,
All I'm say'in is that your rudder is of average size and I'm sure it works quite well. Not inadequate just not excessively large as I thought you implied.

Eric, naval architect George Buehler says the Coot's "rudder is oversized." I can take that with a grain of salt too.

 

[Marin]

Marin's start'in to sound like Sarah Pailin. All I'm say'in Marin is that I think the GB was conceived as a faster boat than it turned out in the present

To be powered by what in the 1960s? There were no "big" diesels for recreational boats back then. In fact most of them were still being powered by gas engines. American Marine never made any claims for speed in their literature for the GB and I've read most of it over the years from the 60s on. They talk about reliability, they talk about economy, they talk about efficiency, they talk about quality, and they talk about the stable ride of their hard-chine hull. But never a peep about speed.

Speed doesn't become a word in the GB lexicon until the 1980s and it became a major selling point in the '90s. And of course it is today with their new fast hulls. By the later '80s there were more powerful engines that could fit into the same space formerly occuped by the FL120 and 135 so buyers who wanted to go faster could now take advantage of that aspect of the hull design. But it most definitely did not start out that way.

 

[markpierce]

Speed doesn't become a word in the GB lexicon until the 1980s and it became a major selling point in the '90s. And of course it is today with their new fast hulls.

Ouch. That's definitely not trawler-like.

 

[magicbus]

After good results last year, I once again coated my metal with Barnacle Buster.

Dave