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Old 07-06-2014, 02:36 PM   #101
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Marty wrote;
"Rowboats have crossed the Atlantic so there is not need for a discussion that semi-displacement or planing boats are not qualified to cross big open water."

Any rowboat that would cross the Atlantic will be beyond any doubt a FD boat. And for that matter any rowboat that's actually a rowboat will be FD. Any boat designed to row must be efficient enough to get along well with just human power. Usually only one or two humans. With that small amount of power only FD boats need apply.

I exclude multi-purpose boats that are sometimes or even fairly often rowed like an aluminum skiff ... But they are not rowboats.

Actually the only need for something other than a FD hull is the need for speed and that usually isn't a "need". Most trawlers would be better off if they all were FD.
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Old 07-06-2014, 03:56 PM   #102
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Most trawlers would be better off if they all were FD.
Now yer just trolling for arguments...

That's like saying we would be better off if we all lived in Florida......Well, no, it would be different, but not necessarily better. Or we should all drive Volkswagen Beatles because it would save fuel.....actually that's a good idea, smart cars for all.......

Full Displacement hulls are fine (that's a pun), but they have drawbacks, lack of dynamic stability, high resistance at speed, lack of interior space, and lack of at rest stability (high roll angle).

Semi-displacement hulls have drawbacks as well, high resistance at low speed, quick motion in a sea, some may have a shallow forefoot that will pound going uphill, and they may handle poorly when forced to slow in a really big sea.

I'm just thankful not everyone wants to chug around in the same boat.
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Old 07-06-2014, 04:22 PM   #103
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Now yer just trolling for arguments...

That's like saying we would be better off if we all lived in Florida......Well, no, it would be different, but not necessarily better. Or we should all drive Volkswagen Beatles because it would save fuel.....actually that's a good idea, smart cars for all.......

Full Displacement hulls are fine (that's a pun), but they have drawbacks, lack of dynamic stability, high resistance at speed, lack of interior space, and lack of at rest stability (high roll angle).

Semi-displacement hulls have drawbacks as well, high resistance at low speed, quick motion in a sea, some may have a shallow forefoot that will pound going uphill, and they may handle poorly when forced to slow in a really big sea.

I'm just thankful not everyone wants to chug around in the same boat.
Well, soon he'll be back to telling us how little horsepower we should have and what idiots we are to have more. I'm sure he'd hate our boats but that doesn't bother me. I am a bit bothered in making absolute declarations as fact that are simply opinions. "Most trawlers would be better off if they all were FD" confused me between "most" and "all" but it's a statement that he simply can't make. No one can state what another person would be better off with.

My wife and I have our preferences in boats but we don't ever try to present our choices as being the "right" ones and "only right" ones. We do try to discuss all the options and encourage people to choose for themselves. In fact, not once here have I ever mentioned or suggested any brand boat we own. But the fact is there are many very happy persons who own semi-displacement and even planing boats and use them for the same type cruising as FD, just faster and at a little greater cost. Similarly there are many who have no desire to go more than 7 knots and love their full displacement.

I'm very glad there are different boats for different people and that we don't all want the same. Wouldn't that be boring?
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Old 07-06-2014, 04:41 PM   #104
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Actually the only need for something other than a FD hull is the need for speed and that usually isn't a "need". Most trawlers would be better off if they all were FD.
Oh Eric, I guess its sunday, and its raining, so I'll take the bait

I'll argue that if you separate "passagemaker trawlers" from "Coastal Cruiser trawlers" then most "Coastal Cruiser trawlers" would be better off as SD boats. I'lll also argue that the VAST majority of "trawlers" designed for coastal cruising are in fact SD boats already and for good reason.

For Coastal Cruising SD boats have several key advantages...

1. Speed and power. Afternoon "sea breeze" is a widely recognized effect in coastal areas. The speed of a SD boat can get you to the next port in calmer weather, avoiding the rough sea states typical of afternoons in coastal areas. That is just one example of many I can think of where speed and power have an advantage.

2. Stability at anchor. A SD boat with its higher initial stability rolls much less at anchor or in harbors that experience surge.

3. View and visibility. Although not a hull form specific issue, most SD boats have larger windows, offering greater visibility.

4. Larger interior living space. I know most won't believe this but its true. Compare living spaces on MOST SD boats vs MOST FD boats of the same design type, and you'll find more interior room. This isn't always the case, but it is what I've personally observed, and its the very reason why I have a Bayliner 4788. For those that say interior space doesn't mean much, try it some time. Larger interior spaces equals more comfort.

The ONLY thing that makes a FD boat better than a SD boat for coastal cruising is sea keeping ability. I will admit that a proper FD boat will be more comfortable in larger seas. This is mitigated though by the "why leave the harbor" concept. If its rough out there stay put. Enjoy the place you are at. Relax, explore another day or two. The weather will change.

For those that think the seakeeping ability of a typical FD boat is necessary, I'll counter that its all about perception and roll tolerance. Last weekend I was in a bouy measured 6.2' 10/7 second beam sea and used my boats large engines to squat the rear into a very enjoyable ride. I would argue that in moderate sea states a stabilized FD and a stabilized SD boat can both be comfortable. Take the stabilizers away from both boats and I've yet to see data that a SD boat is any less comfortable, if it uses its engines to dampen the sharpness of the roll.


Let the fur fly.
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Old 07-06-2014, 05:06 PM   #105
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For once I'll agree with the QBBL guru....but only if we narrow down the definition of a trawler.

IF...you think a trawler is something just like what manyboats has in HIS mind...OF COURSE they are all better off being FD....

We all know that trawlers are this magical, workboat look alike with highly glossed varnish jobs,

plus a 45hp, 1890's designed engine that turns max 87.3 RPM and pushed along at 5.2361 knots because no one should go faster...

and don't forget a QBBL that a rollercoaster addict could relate to...all with unlimited storage and range, yet can fit into tiny marinas for a song in dockage, carry 30 anchors and a few spares (easy as there's no genset so there's plenty of room below...there's no genset because trawler owners are green and noise conscious)....

I'd go on but that ought to do for now....
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Old 07-06-2014, 05:23 PM   #106
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for once i'll agree with the qbbl guru....but only if we narrow down the definition of a trawler.

If...you think a trawler is something just like what manyboats has in his mind...of course they are all better off being fd....:d

we all know that trawlers are this magical, workboat look alike with highly glossed varnish jobs,

plus a 45hp, 1890's designed engine that turns max 87.3 rpm and pushed along at 5.2361 knots because no one should go faster...

And don't forget a qbbl that a rollercoaster addict could relate to...all with unlimited storage and range, yet can fit into tiny marinas for a song in dockage, carry 30 anchors and a few spares (easy as there's no genset so there's plenty of room below...there's no genset because trawler owners are green and noise conscious)....

I'd go on but that ought to do for now....

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Old 07-06-2014, 05:24 PM   #107
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For once I'll agree with the QBBL guru....but only if we narrow down the definition of a trawler.

IF...you think a trawler is something just like what manyboats has in HIS mind...OF COURSE they are all better off being FD....:
Exactly what I thought, and given his clear expressions in many other threads, the statement makes total sense about vessels whose design was never intended for speed. Performance is a different thread.
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Old 07-06-2014, 06:09 PM   #108
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One things is for certain...a quote right out of Alice in Wonderland makes a point that is totally relevant to the discussion...

"Sometimes I believe in as many as six impossible things before breakfast.”
—Alice, Tim Burton’s Alice in Wonderland

If you keep shifting a reference point...everything you post will make sense...some are masters at it....

Another universal axiom is "clarity of thought"....I have sat in audiences of some of the finest minds in our known universe....I have also sat on a barstool next to some of the universes biggest drunks....the "clarity of thought" emanating from either source seemed to be "clear" at the moment. The next day...it was a heck of a lot more evident who was speaking something I could agree with.
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