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Old 07-02-2014, 07:14 PM   #41
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Hello all,

I just joined the forum and this is my first post. I am not trying to start a fast boat/slow boat debate here...

Thanks for your time,
Sam
Don't worry Sam, it doesn't take much to get these guys going. Come on back and let us know if we are providing the kind of feedback you need.
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Old 07-02-2014, 07:58 PM   #42
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Don't worry Sam, it doesn't take much to get these guys going. Come on back and let us know if we are providing the kind of feedback you need.
Actually the debate is exactly what he needs to. There is not a simple, right answer. People don't agree on this subject. So he gets all views and then he can decide who to believe or really who he is more like. It's obvious if you just look that boaters are passionate about very different boats than each other.
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Old 07-02-2014, 09:50 PM   #43
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Capt.Bill11 and Caltex,
In waves when more water comes up under one side of a boat the extra lift on that side causes the boat to roll. The round bottomed boat I showed pics of will experience much less upward force on the wave side whereas the GB or Hat will strongly lift "right now" producing a snap roll that's very uncomfortable. The narrower and rounded FD hull will have much less force lifting causing the roll. BUT there is much less force counteracting the lift from the other side so the response can be slow and not much force to stop the roll so lots of slow rolling results. So a FD boat will roll deeper (more degrees) and if the wrong timing of wave encounters are present heavy rolling can result. But on a FD stabilized boat very small forces are needed to keep her from rolling or rolling too much.

And if a wide hard chine boat has stabilizers and they "work fine" I'm going to assume they're going to be big and powerful stabilizers.
In many ways it boils down to which type of roll a person can deal with in the long run. Some people prefer one style of rolling over the other. And a low hard chine boat can be more stabile at anchor. One of my favorite boats at anchor are the Marlows. Low, fairly wide, hard chined and very comfortable at anchor.

Stabilizers do work just fine on both types of hulls and are relatively large and definitely powerful in both cases. The have to be to work efficiently and over come the forces in play.
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Old 07-03-2014, 12:44 AM   #44
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Passage making in a boat sounds like torture to me, bouncing/rolling around for weeks at a time. Ships, on the other hand, were made for passage making.

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Old 07-03-2014, 01:28 AM   #45
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Without active roll stabilization of any type, the most steady hull for a power boat in rough water would probably be a deep vee planing hull such as a Bertram 35. (until you run out of fuel)
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Old 07-03-2014, 06:56 AM   #46
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Without active roll stabilization of any type, the most steady hull for a power boat in rough water would probably be a deep vee planing hull such as a Bertram 35. (until you run out of fuel)
Or until you have to slow down because of sea state then beam seas woud have some of the saltiest puking...

Have seen it plenty of times.

Like Mark posted...any boat at some sea state is just beyond it's desired capabilities...even ships...but the bigger she is the more rare the times the sea wins.
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Old 07-03-2014, 07:08 AM   #47
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Once while bouncing around entering San Francisco in on my passage capable sailboat I realized how I really wanted to cross oceans when I looked up and saw planes bound for SFO
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Old 07-03-2014, 06:13 PM   #48
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I look at some form of stabilization, whether stabilizers or paravanes as a necessity. Now I know it's not on the level of food and water but it adds so much to the enjoyment. Once one has them, they never want to go back. Most characteristics and options of boats I see as very dependent on your intended use, but stabilization isn't one of those things. Every use of a boat involves some need. Although the boats I had on a lake were too small for it, I can see many times even on lakes and rivers it would have been nice, when all the weekend boaters were throwing wakes everywhere.
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Old 07-03-2014, 08:25 PM   #49
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Stabilization may not be as important as food or water, but for those of us guys who are married/attached it may be the difference between cruising and not cruising. Depends on the boat and the cruising area.
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Old 07-03-2014, 08:53 PM   #50
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Stabilization may not be as important as food or water, but for those of us guys who are married/attached it may be the difference between cruising and not cruising. Depends on the boat and the cruising area.
It's called "Pleasure Boating" so I'm for everything that makes it more pleasurable. We are fine with conditions many here wouldn't want to be in but at the same time we do try to make things as comfortable as possible. Safety is paramount, but pleasure is then what we all want in addition to it.
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Old 07-03-2014, 10:09 PM   #51
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Guys w stabilizers probably don't ride Harleys cause they vibrate.
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Old 07-04-2014, 12:40 AM   #52
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Guys w stabilizers probably don't ride Harleys cause they vibrate.
I don't ride Harleys for many reasons and vibration is the least of them.

but

Probably a better analogy though would be "don't ride Harley's over mountain trails and through the woods" as last I knew most road Harley's on smooth surfaces and the water is often not smooth. What if while you were stopped at the light on a Harley the road started tilting back and forth side to side about 20 degrees?
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Old 07-04-2014, 09:37 AM   #53
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while this conversation has morphed to stabilization,the one difference that I have noticed on a full displacement vs. semi is storage.Most fd boats have considerable more storage than semi,due to the hull design,as well as being able to hold much more weight with little compromise to draft.albeit,all additional weight on either should be stored as low as possible to not affect stability.So in my humble opinion,fd boats are more suited for longer distance cruises,or more time away from the marinas.
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Old 07-04-2014, 09:47 AM   #54
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while this conversation has morphed to stabilization,the one difference that I have noticed on a full displacement vs. semi is storage.Most fd boats have considerable more storage than semi,due to the hull design,as well as being able to hold much more weight with little compromise to draft.albeit,all additional weight on either should be stored as low as possible to not affect stability.So in my humble opinion,fd boats are more suited for longer distance cruises,or more time away from the marinas.
At a certain size and purpose...that "storage and carrying" capacity becomes irrelevant to most recreational boats.

Sure a coal barge needs to be full displacement...but a lot of mega yachts that aren't expedition yachts are not FD.

Even in sizes down to 50-60 something feet a boat can be a passagemaker and not be FD without sacrificing too much for speed, accommodations and amenities. Sure the design and materials become more out of the ordinary...but they don't fit the "must be displacement" rule.
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Old 07-04-2014, 10:02 AM   #55
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At a certain size and purpose...that "storage and carrying" capacity becomes irrelevant to most recreational boats.
Perhaps we have two discussions, one for the majority of pleasure boat which are under 65 feet and the other for those boats which are over 65 feet. The over 65 feet long boats fall into a different category for many reasons in addition to the need or lack of need for stabilization or hull form.
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Old 07-04-2014, 10:36 AM   #56
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Perhaps we have two discussions, one for the majority of pleasure boat which are under 65 feet and the other for those boats which are over 65 feet. The over 65 feet long boats fall into a different category for many reasons in addition to the need or lack of need for stabilization or hull form.
Exactly like other SD/FD discussions...there is no "hard" line to draw through...so it becomes a constant changing of parameters to even discuss.

Sure I'll agree that the more "standard" boat designs under 65 feet tend toward FD to be reasonable passagemakers and a good point about they really need to be stabilized...

My point is that an "unconditional" statement about all or mostly all passagemakers is just not true or completely relevant. As Mark pointed out...size usually drives passagemaker design where smaller passagemakers are forced to fiddle with design parameters to accomplish as many design desires as possible...if speed is one...the FD is out and other ways are figured in to accommodate engine size and fuel consumption.
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Old 07-04-2014, 10:55 AM   #57
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I know I'm talking about a small time vessel what can I expect with my 36 FD 1976 Gulfstar Mark II in moderate to light seas?
Thanks in advance...
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Old 07-04-2014, 01:05 PM   #58
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I would stay away from the Zeus drives if you're just in shoaling waters at all. I also love my stabilizers and I consider them a priority.
Over the past year of cruising full time we have used our fly bridge less than 1/2 dozen times, the pilothouse as others have mentioned is awesome and with a centrally positioned helm you have great access to anything you need.

I ditto the comment about chartering what you are looking at if time was on my side and we were looking at another boat which we are not I would definitely charter.

Lastly no boat will give you everything you need unless you just won the lottery....

Happy hunting

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Old 07-04-2014, 01:20 PM   #59
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I would stay away from the Zeus drives if you're just in shoaling waters at all. I also love my stabilizers and I consider them a priority.
Over the past year of cruising full time we have used our fly bridge less than 1/2 dozen times, the pilothouse as others have mentioned is awesome and with a centrally positioned helm you have great access to anything you need.

I ditto the comment about chartering what you are looking at if time was on my side and we were looking at another boat which we are not I would definitely charter.

Lastly no boat will give you everything you need unless you just won the lottery....

Happy hunting

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If I could easily do it I would remove the upper helm on my Gulfstar. I may end up doing it once I get the boat back to my home marina in NJ. To me it's wasted space I could use for additional solar panels and antennas. It's one less set of gauges, throttle and engine cables and steering controls to deal with. It would also lower my overall height possibly lowering my CG. I see practically no reason to use the upper helm given the view and comforts I will have at the lower helm.
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Old 07-04-2014, 01:51 PM   #60
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Over the past year of cruising full time we have used our fly bridge less than 1/2 dozen times, the pilothouse as others have mentioned is awesome and with a centrally positioned helm you have great access to anything you need.

I ditto the comment about chartering what you are looking at if time was on my side and we were looking at another boat which we are not I would definitely charter.
Just shows how different we all are. In terms of use of fly bridge, if by use you mean been on it at all, we use ours at least 70% of the days we cruise. If by use, you mean use the flybridge helm, we use it probably 40% of the days we move. Now I don't mean 40% of the time as sometimes that may just be a few hours out of the day.

Now we live in South Florida, so generally great weather for bridge. But the funny thing is cruising in the PNW we find ourselves moving up when we get a nice day, generally anything above 65 degrees and not raining, just to enjoy the day of nice weather.
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