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Old 08-25-2016, 06:11 PM   #21
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Old 08-25-2016, 06:30 PM   #22
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During my search for a boat, out of curiosity as to what insurance would be, I did online quotes through BoatUS insurance. In all cases (about 10!!!) with the exception of one steel hulled boat, the only thing that they said I had go do was provide hull number, a photo copy of my drivers license, a bunch of pictures and a "self survey" form has to be filled out.

What am I missing here? Will I have a surprise when I actually do buy a boat such as the one that is being surveyed tomorrow.....????? And that all of a sudden something else will happen with insurance. It seems most of you are worried about the OP not being able to get insurance? I have 10 quotes for agreed value (granted a 20 year old sub $30k boat) that quote otherwise.

Or is BoatUS Geico in reality funning me
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Old 08-25-2016, 06:40 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Gmarr View Post

What am I missing here? Will I have a surprise when I actually do buy a boat such as the one that is being surveyed tomorrow.....????? And that all of a sudden something else will happen with insurance. It seems most of you are worried about the OP not being able to get insurance? I have 10 quotes for agreed value (granted a 20 year old sub $30k boat) that quote otherwise.

Or is BoatUS Geico in reality funning me
I've bought and insured 3 boats w BoatUS and they haven't req'd a survey.
I had 2 of the 3 surveyed but chose to skip the last one based on my own inspection and age/condition of the boat.
I do endorse gaving a survey in most... but not all...situations.
Even the best experts protect themselves w disclaimers that they are not responsible for anything provided or missed.
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Old 08-25-2016, 06:41 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Gmarr View Post
During my search for a boat, out of curiosity as to what insurance would be, I did online quotes through BoatUS insurance. In all cases (about 10!!!) with the exception of one steel hulled boat, the only thing that they said I had go do was provide hull number, a photo copy of my drivers license, a bunch of pictures and a "self survey" form has to be filled out.

What am I missing here? Will I have a surprise when I actually do buy a boat such as the one that is being surveyed tomorrow.....????? And that all of a sudden something else will happen with insurance. It seems most of you are worried about the OP not being able to get insurance? I have 10 quotes for agreed value (granted a 20 year old sub $30k boat) that quote otherwise.

Or is BoatUS Geico in reality funning me
It all depends on the level of coverages provided by the policy. "Agreed value" is a method of loss settlement. The policy should be an All Risk Yacht policy, not a named perils policy.

Geico offers both.
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Old 08-25-2016, 06:41 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Gmarr View Post
During my search for a boat, out of curiosity as to what insurance would be, I did online quotes through BoatUS insurance. In all cases (about 10!!!) with the exception of one steel hulled boat, the only thing that they said I had go do was provide hull number, a photo copy of my drivers license, a bunch of pictures and a "self survey" form has to be filled out.

What am I missing here? Will I have a surprise when I actually do buy a boat such as the one that is being surveyed tomorrow.....????? And that all of a sudden something else will happen with insurance. It seems most of you are worried about the OP not being able to get insurance? I have 10 quotes for agreed value (granted a 20 year old sub $30k boat) that quote otherwise.

Or is BoatUS Geico in reality funning me
The key is the size and value you're covering.

Now, until you actually get the coverage bound there's still the chance someone will say no to it. Sales persons are more willing sometimes than underwriters.
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Old 08-25-2016, 07:10 PM   #26
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Hard to imagine any insurance company is going to insure fully any boat without a survey. A verbal assertion would not be enough.
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Old 08-25-2016, 07:49 PM   #27
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It all depends upon age of vessel. And amount of coverage required.

I realized that I asked for a 'full insurance survey' when a simple 'pre- purchase' survey would have sufficed. I didn't realize the difference. BUT.... The survey found several items I missed. BUT. The items the survey missed cost me several hundreds in repairs. The insurance is not related. The repairs needed to be done. I doubt that your insurance would accept a 'non accredited' survey. Not discounting your view. But... The CV does count for something (not necessarily valid, but it does count)
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Old 08-25-2016, 10:19 PM   #28
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It all depends upon age of vessel. And amount of coverage required...I realized that I asked for a 'full insurance survey' when a simple 'pre- purchase' survey would have sufficed. I didn't realize the difference. BUT.... The survey found several items I missed. BUT. The items the survey missed cost me several hundreds in repairs.....
Have you reversed "full insurance survey" and "simple"pre-purchase" survey?
Here, a pre purchase survey is usually much more extensive than an "insurance" survey, though on my boat I gave the purchase survey to the insurer. 5 years on I needed an insurance survey for renewal, it cost less and covered less ground than the purchase one, concentrating on safety, soundness and value.
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Old 08-26-2016, 12:49 PM   #29
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Personally is support the thought to forgo a thorough survey based on the owner to be's experience.
Surveys come with different degrees of effort on the part of the surveyor The least expensive is the "insurance survey". It took my surveyor under an hour to document the boats size, equipment and very general condition. I basically crawled around the engine room reading off serial numbers. This was all Boat US required.
Cheap and effective!

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Old 08-27-2016, 02:45 PM   #30
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Have you reversed "full insurance survey" and "simple"pre-purchase" survey?.

Yes. Flipped the description. Sorry to confuse.
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Old 09-04-2016, 08:16 AM   #31
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So, how did it go?

I'd hoped to be writing this after a year or two of experience with the boat. However, we have just returned from our 2000 mile road trip with no sale. It was a nice trip with a beautiful waterfront dinner watching the spectacular sunset created by the approaching storm but still over a grand invested in looking at a boat that we didn't buy and I'm glad not to have had another few hundred dollars for a survey added to the cost.

We stopped first at the office for the surveyor for the engine room flooding a year or two back and reviewed the file. I was quite impressed with this guy and, if I ever do need a formal survey in the area, Tom Eve is the one I am going to call. He doesn't get much yacht sale work now because he is too through for for brokers who want deals to go through. His calendar is filled solid though with commercial and insurance work. Availability could be tough.

I used to do a lot of stability testing work which is similar to surveying and this was a reminder of why I got out of it. I just hate giving people bad news. I wasn't nit-picking little stuff like wire terminals that don't meet current ABYC standards, just looking for the things that immediately matter to the safety and function of the boat. There were a number of items that would have been price negotiating points but wouldn't have kept us from buying the boat. When I went over my list at lunch with the owner (who is a friend of Tom Eve's BTW), he said, "Tom is tough but you make him look like my mother."

There was a deal killer. The Sampson post had hollowed out with rot. The water had been getting in through the paint cracks and the rot had worked its way down and taken out the whole chain locker bulkhead. I also found water working its way down through the flybridge deck into the support beams. No trouble there yet but there will be soon. I took the gear out of the steering gear space and stepped in to remove the floor over the tiller and the rotted plywood gave way and dropped me down the hatch. Since the sale of our last trawler was largely prompted by the arm injury sustained by my slipping in a hatch, my life kind of flashed before my eyes. I found the strongbacks that restrain the water tanks rotted to the extent that one was lying in the bilge.

I must point out that Tom Eve's survey of the boat was limited to the machinery spaces, I'm sure he would have found these things in a full survey.

We proceeded with the sea trial and haul out in case we could come to agreement about fixing the major items as we did quite like the boat. Almost nothing aside from the engine, the steering gear, and some of the electronics worked. No tach, no bow thruster, no generator. The boat does have the teak decks removed and two new aluminum fuel tanks so it is a rare A 36. If we haven't found another boat by the time the owner has had the Sampson post and bulkhead replaced and gotten everything working, we might take another look. In the meantime we are still searching for a boat.

I'm sure this was a beautiful and fully functional boat three years ago when illness began distracting the owner and I don't think he was trying to slide these things by us. It just goes to show how fast things can go to hell on a boat even when it has AC running full time inside and is being cared for by a good yard.
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Old 09-04-2016, 10:37 AM   #32
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Roger, just as a curiosity, does it look like he could pay to fix everything for less than the asking price? Seems like a bunch of labor intensive (expensive) work if the seller can't do it himself.

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Old 09-04-2016, 12:04 PM   #33
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Roger, just as a curiosity, does it look like he could pay to fix everything for less than the asking price?
I think he certainly could and the boat has potential. In other circumstances, and if the sea trial had gone well, we might have tried to make some kind of deal. However, with the storm coming I missed being able to spend another day finding out why so many things were not working in the reportedly first rate mechanical department.

Last we heard, he had an estimate from the yard and was going to proceed with repair. He doesn't have much choice. OTOH, he wasn't going to take the fly bridge canvas down for the storm because it's "been through tropical storms before". I wonder if it is still there.

The boat you really want always seems to come along just after you buy one. We know this boat well now. If we hear that everything is fixed, I might hire a surveyor to look at the repair, send photos, and do a sea trial. On that basis, I would be prepared to buy sight unseen. Meanwhile, we can keep looking.
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