Seeking steering response and stability

[Heron]

Low fluid or air in the system ?

I just spent some time working on my friends 34' Marine Trader. He blew a line off on a trip and we repaired, but as we returned home turns went from 4 turns to 10. Needless to say we were all over the place. Diagnosis later proved we had not bled it well and air eventually made it's way down the line. A very careful bleeding in both directions, and fluid monitoring at the top helm, then the lower got it all back into spec. 4 turns lock to lock, and all is well...

 

[Nomad Willy]

Remember if the rudder pivots more than 35deg or 40 deg is is a brake , not a rudder.

It’s always a brake. How far it’s deflected depends on how much of a brake it is. 90 degrees and it’s 100% brake. But wrose than that because it’s in the propwash.

However my rudder deflects about as far as any here on TF. But w/o any trick devices from rudder TE mods to thrusters my boat probably turns quicker than any other here. The raked bow and canoe stern along w a fairly short overall WLL helps.

But to criticize my rudder deflection using a SD or planing boat standard is just an indication you’ve not done it. My boat slows down when full deflection is employed but even w the gear in neutral the boat coasts along quite far turning very well. Probably better than most or almost any here.

If you’re really concerned how much braking a rudder does you’d install two rudders on your boat .. one on each side of the propwash. The rudder in the center of the propwash causes considerable drag. The poropwsh is trying to push the rudder backwards kinda like the fusalage, wing roots and verticle stablizer of an aircraft (all in the propwash) w the prop out front tractor style. But it’s a good trade for what you get. Most propeller driven aircraft are configurated this way.

And the only time my rudder produces more drag from more than normal deflection is when it’s deflected more than normal. And then I’m getting the benefit of awsome turning.

But to have an advantage in turning ability you need a big rudder and almost no boats here have such a rudder. Because we’re about 90% SD here I probably should never have mentioned using more than 35 degrees rudder deflection. I hope nobodies tried it w a small rudder. If you tried that FF you’d get worse than a bit of a brake. You’d create a lot of post rudder turbulence and a largely ineffective rudder. Stalled basically.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Our boat was designed by 2 ex sailors so likely the reason for the large rudder and 3 turns stop to stop. I like it a lot!

Allan and Ann,
I think the Willard was designed by a NA that usually designed sailboats. There are numerous features of the Willard that seem to come from sailboats. I didn’t know sailboats had quick steering.

My Willard has two attachment holes on the rudder horn. So it appears it was intended as an option. I opted it and the result was much better turning. I haven’t checked other Willards to see if the rudder horn was/is standard equipment or not OEM.

But I have a hard time imagining how one deals w 6’ quartering stern seas w a slow steering like 6 turns. I really like my excellent quick and effective rudder response. And of course in the marina good rudder response is good too. Before my two trawlers my boats were outboards so I wasspoiled early on.

 

[Donna]

Low fluid or air in the system ?

Solved the same issue with a top off on fluid.

 

[jimisbell]

Oh yes- Suicide knobs! Not so good on my boat as both wheels are vertical but Im going to include them in the 'mix'.

Something like that on a vertical wheel could catch your pants leg and flip you over.....LOL


I never counted the turns on my MS-34, but its a lot. But I dock in very close quarters and have to make a "back and fill" turn in a cul-de-sac to get to my slip port side to. But I have just learned to do it. Much better than modifying the boat and then regretting one of the unanticipated consequences.

 

[Keysdisease]

Sea Star Selection Guide. Has # turns for some inboard systems on page 5-3, others systems elsewhere in the guide

http://www.seastarsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/SL6001-24.pdf

 

[dhays]

I wish RM made a jog lever for their auto pilot. That would be a perfect solution for me. Unfortunately, they don't and I'm not bright enough to kludge something together.

 

[geoleo]

Im going to go ahead and move the tillers pin location in 2 inches. This will not change the lock to lock requirement as it will increase the rudder total angle but it will move the rudder 30% faster when the steering wheel turns. (6.5 divided by 2=.3) I don't know what effect it will have on the auto -pilot. Stay tuned --but I wont be able to test it for 3-5 weeks as Im doing other work.

 

[DDW]

I wish RM made a jog lever for their auto pilot. That would be a perfect solution for me. Unfortunately, they don't and I'm not bright enough to kludge something together.

You mean like this?

 

[dhays]

You mean like this?

Yes, but I don’t think they have anything currently that will work with my older AP. It would be great if that would work with my old autopilot though.