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Old 11-18-2014, 04:50 PM   #1
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Is a Sedan/Europa a Good Option?

Ahoy all you Europa/sedan owners and antagonists. I believe I want a Europa/Sedan trawler w/ flybridge, 36-40 feet so that I can easily single hand. I like the backing visibility from the lower helm, access to the side deck and cockpit, and room for friends on day sails. 2 cabins, main w/ centerline berth, single head and a generator that handles all power needs on board. I enjoy ocean cruising but I am not looking for a passage maker. I would like a boat that would go up to 12+ knots but would cruise 7-8 @ 4gph not including the genset. No teak decks and fishing is not a consideration. Single or dual if it meets performance expectations at the stated fuel burn. 4 maximum draft. The boat has to be turn-key, projects are in my rear view mirror. I would like to spend $25K but the budget is $200K MAX. Looking to cruise the Chesapeake to the Keys, maybe the Exumas.


Am I looking for the right boat style? What are your suggestions on the mfg/model . What are the must haves compared to the want to haves? What else do I need to consider?


Thanks,
"Steelydon"
Don
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Old 11-18-2014, 05:02 PM   #2
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Lot of boats meet your stated cruising requirements. All an Europa does is eliminate the rear cabin. Buy a boat. You can never have too many boats.
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Old 11-18-2014, 05:11 PM   #3
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I am down to 3 right now. I spent several years rebuilding a 280 Chris Craft Catalina only to realize it was going to be too small for cruising. Sold it last week so its time to get the fleet back up to full strength.

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Old 11-18-2014, 05:30 PM   #4
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What I don't like about Europa's if single handling, is the trip down the ladder when up on the flying bridge and you are in a rush to get down.

Some have stairs to the bridge so that does make some models tempting.
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Old 11-18-2014, 05:31 PM   #5
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Europa's have nice layouts IMHO and should meet most your needs. They seem to be a fairly popular style of trawler. You might want to look at a Grand Banks 36 Europa.
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Old 11-18-2014, 05:46 PM   #6
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Extremely biased viewpoint.

Check out a pilgrim. Great single handed cruiser.
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Old 11-18-2014, 06:05 PM   #7
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All boats have pluses and minuses.

It good to hear from others and know all of them, then make up your mind of how you will cruise, crew the boat, and sit back and enjoy her.

Many people name a bunch of things that just aren't true, so you really have to sort through a lot of opinions if you never cruised or lived on a certain kind of boat.
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Old 11-18-2014, 06:52 PM   #8
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The GB is a budget buster. For docking I would plan to be at the lower station with access to the rail for docking. No rush from FB to deck. I am trying to avoid sundecks due to cockpit access for docking. The DC models seem to limit salon size. What else am I missing here?
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Old 11-18-2014, 07:11 PM   #9
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Trying to be objective.
If you go sedan/Europa make sure the cockpit is deep enough for entertaining. The inside sitting and cooking and refrig facilities work well with the outside, all on one level and close by. Our Europa has(not fitted in pic) "breeze" covers around the cockpit with clears cutoffs (on zips) at the 2 aft corners of the house, giving some protection outside even in rain.
Good luck with your search.
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Old 11-18-2014, 07:18 PM   #10
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Aft cabin with cockpit. The OA 42-44 and the similar Tollycraft 44 are within your budget. A bit of an update on the Taiwan Trawler look, but the same, maybe better bones.

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Old 11-18-2014, 07:50 PM   #11
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Greetings,
Mr. steely. "What else am I missing here?" Well, it's saloon for starters...
We've had both a DC and a Sedan. As mentioned, with a DC you loose saloon space and with our current cruising style we prefer the larger living area for entertaining. Deck overhang protects the side windows somewhat from both sun and rain.
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Old 11-18-2014, 07:56 PM   #12
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See that beast in my avatar? I'm a klutz, dyslexic and ADD. I have single handed that thing pretty easily. To me the secret is full walk around side decks, a door on each side of the helm and good visibility. If no one is on the dock to catch a line for you, you set a spring line and a rear quarter breast line and engine and helm keeps you to the dock. Toss the stern line to the dock, climb down the side ladder right by the helm and you're in. Takes some basic rodeo skills, but that is just a matter of practice, practice, practice.

So try out a few boats, maybe a few charters. Lacking that get on a few and walk yourself through the drills. As always, the smallest boat you can be comfortable in is the best choice.
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Old 11-18-2014, 07:56 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelydon View Post
The GB is a budget buster. For docking I would plan to be at the lower station with access to the rail for docking. No rush from FB to deck. I am trying to avoid sundecks due to cockpit access for docking. The DC models seem to limit salon size. What else am I missing here?
Depends, I think my saloon is bigger than those of a 40 Europa style as my galley is down. But so many different models...so many maybes.
Maybe the view from the lower station has good enough visibility for single handed docking, maybe not as I have seen in some models...then again there are plenty of boats without good visibility from either station.
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Old 11-18-2014, 08:00 PM   #14
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Give some thought to the flying bridge. Seems inconsistent with single handed docking, whereas a pilot house boat with side doors, perhaps a Nordic Tug, or a Europa style GB controlled from the lower helm (again with a side door) would work.
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Old 11-18-2014, 08:04 PM   #15
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For the PNW's rainy, windy weather a Europa has some real advantages. Since it can be enclosed and heated, it allows one to be outside without being outside.

The big disadvantage in the smaller ones (36') is that there is usually just one stateroom and head. Guests have to stay in the main cabin, which means the berth has to be made up at night and stowed away in the morning.

Were we in the market for a Grand Banks today, my wife and I would be very tempted to get a Europa. However, we would probably get a 42' or 46' so we could have a second stateroom up forward for guests.

Our 36' GB Classic (tri-cabin) works great with guests because they and we have our own cabins and heads separated by the neutral ground of the main cabin. What we don't have is that great covered aft deck where we could sit outside but out of the rain.

And I agree with Marty above. Both my wife and I believe that the very best configuration for a cruising boat is a pilothouse boat like the Krogen 42, Fleming 55, and de Fever 46. You get an elevated helm out of the weather and that great covered aft deck. And you can still have a flying bridge if you like driving from one.

As others have said, every boat is a compromise.
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Old 11-19-2014, 01:04 AM   #16
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We have an ocean Alexander Europa and I really like the layout of the boat and the comfort inside and outside. As previously stated the visibility to the stern is really good from the main helm and to be able to walk out to a covered aft deck is really nice.
Having had a standard GB 36 tri cabin I really prefer the Europa.

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Old 11-19-2014, 01:32 AM   #17
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I have a sedan and love it for all the reasons you state. The area lost in the galley up salon with side decks is made up in the cockpit space. There's an intimacy with the water from a cockpit not similarly experienced in a sundeck model. For me, one unexpected advantage for the FB is extra storage. I don't drive much from there.

I would not overlook the Nordic Tug 37 or NT42 for a boat with the layout and features you want, good single-handing access but the 12 Kts may be a problem.
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Old 11-19-2014, 02:02 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelydon View Post
Ahoy all you Europa/sedan owners and antagonists. I believe I want a Europa/Sedan trawler w/ flybridge, 36-40 feet so that I can easily single hand. I like the backing visibility from the lower helm, access to the side deck and cockpit, and room for friends on day sails.
Am I looking for the right boat style? Thanks,
"Steelydon"
Don
Indupitably yes - unless you plan on taking non-close-family type 'others' (and not many do) away on lots of sleep-overs and want the privacy of totally separated sleeping quarters, there is no real argumment for not having a Europa type lay-out. (IMHO) Maybe a sundeck type if you can go larger, (sort of has both) but there is that height up from the dock then. I can single hand mine easily, using tactics as suggested by caltexflank.
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Old 11-19-2014, 08:57 AM   #19
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There's an intimacy with the water from a cockpit not similarly experienced in a sundeck model.
In our boating area, intimacy with the water often equates to intimacy with swarming bugs. The additional elevation with a sundeck helps mitigate the issue. It's also up in the breeze that typically gets blocked by adjacent hulls (in the marina). And finally, the sightlines are over adjacent boats, so it feels much less confining than a low cockpit when "parked in" by other boats. And if we want to hang out at water level, we can move to the cockpit (sundeck with cockpit)...but we never do. That said, I do admire the exterior appearance of sedans and Europas. The OA Europa is exactly right to my eye.
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Old 11-19-2014, 10:07 AM   #20
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The OA Europa is exactly right to my eye.
Following in the footsteps of Mark....


I couldn't agree more

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