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Old 12-12-2014, 09:47 AM   #41
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I also think about it in terms of materials quality. Many materials tend to advance in quality over time, and stay better once those advancements have been made.
That is correct.

Case in point...

30 years ago many, if not all boats used balsa or other wood in the decks, and many of them penetrated those decks with thousands of screws.

Lots of older boats have, or had, or will have soft/rotten deck issues requiring a major remediation.

Today the we have foam core, and the deck problems are pretty much gone.
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Old 12-12-2014, 10:17 AM   #42
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Many materials tend to advance in quality over time, and stay better once those advancements have been made.
Yes and no. While basic advancements may stay the same, competition can force manufacturers to reduce costs, and this can result in fewer features, simpler interiors, cheaper components.

The Grand Banks 36 was taken out of production sometime in the 90s because the build quality forced the boat to be too expensive for the 36' boat market. But there was still a demand for that model. So Grand Banks created what I call the GB36 Lite. Costs were reduced wherever possible, which was mostly in features and the interior fittings and finish. Still a very nice boat, but a "lesser" boat than the 70s, 80s, and early 90s GB36s. And the boat was still too expensive for the market so after a couple of years the GB36 was discontinued for good.

Our 1973 boat is from the first batch of fiberglass GB36s ever made. One slip away from us is the very last GB36 ever made. The differences in trim and interior features is subtle but definitely there.
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Old 12-13-2014, 01:33 AM   #43
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My boat has been holding herself afloat for 34 years now. Her hull was being laid about the time I l graduated High School. That says something for older boats.
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Old 12-13-2014, 10:51 AM   #44
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Thumbs up Mainship

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If GB is out of budget try Mainship, pretty impressive package for the price, friend has a 34 flybridge and boy that's a lot of boat.
I'm probably the rookie here. We just acquired a Mainship 390 which meets our needs, and seems to address yours as well. Reasonably good view from lower helm out rear sliding door, but also has the side door right there for looking at the starboard-aft area. 2 staterooms. Steps leading up to FB, not a ladder. She'll fast cruise at 14 knots guzzling the diesel elixir. I believe she was about 17kt WOT during the sea trial. But economically cruises at 7-8. I'll know more once the mechanic is done doing some PM's and a couple repairs (including flowscans) and I can start getting some quality time aboard.
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Old 12-13-2014, 11:02 AM   #45
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We like the Europa style. The covered side deck are great to have. Aft deck is smaller than I would like to have, however, more than adequate for our needs. We have docked from both upper & lower helms. More frm the upper than the lower. In a strong current, here on the Columbia, docking is an event to say the least. We are working on the tactics. Admiral handles the lines. What I really don't like about the docking frm the upper helm is, I can not see her ALL the time. Which, to me, is a safety issue. After reading this thread, I'm going to start docking frm the lower helm.

We have a large salon, which is great. Our girl is a '78 vintage. Solid as a rock. We paid fair money for her, so we are ahead so far. New upgrades are part of the older boat thing, I guess.

As to cruising speed, at most she will only do 10 knots @ 2500 rpm. 8 knots @ 1900 rpm. I have no idea what the fuel consumption is at this point.

Older Europa boats look classy! You gotta have some style! Look at the Taiwan boats. They maybe in your price range.

Good hunting.
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Old 12-13-2014, 06:27 PM   #46
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Update. My broker and I visited a 38 Mariner Orient about 3 weeks ago. I liked the layout, FB, etc. There were several items that need changing/updating. We made what I consider was a fair offer. (higher than the only 2 previous sales of the same model during the past 2 years) The seller did not counter so I moved on and am now looking at a 2002 Sabre 36 FB.It is not a Europa but at least it is a sedan.

The Sabre has the 6yla stp yanmars 370hp ea. I have some concerns about running at low rpm even with a 1 hour throttle up toward the end of a days run. I'm probably insane to consider a 36 foot boat with 740hp but it would have speed to make a run if my gas card can stand the heat. It is a single master suite layout with galley down compared to the MO 2 stateroom galley up. F/W, fuel, and holding capacity is limited 100/300/30.

I can't find a lot of info on the boat re: problems. For example is the hull cored below the waterline? If anyone has any advice or experience on the boat or engines please chime in.

Thanks,

Don
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Old 12-13-2014, 08:19 PM   #47
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Aside from the cost of going fast, what's not to like about a Sabre? I only wish I could have a boat like that!
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Old 12-14-2014, 07:16 AM   #48
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>Today the we have foam core, and the deck problems are pretty much gone.<

Quality foam core was easily available in the late 1960s , AIREX

It did cost more than house grade plywood , so was not bothered with till the ply (Chinese Composite) began to give the boats a bad reputation ,worldwide.

AIREX is still mostly only used in commercial boats and military boats , as cheaper plastic is now available for budget construction.
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Old 12-14-2014, 09:00 AM   #49
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I can't find a lot of info on the boat re: problems. For example is the hull cored below the waterline? If anyone has any advice or experience on the boat or engines please chime in.
Hopefully Moonstruck will chime in but, if not, rattle his cage.
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Old 12-14-2014, 09:01 AM   #50
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Is a Sedan/Europa a Good Option?

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I also think about it in terms of materials quality. Many materials tend to advance in quality over time, and stay better once those advancements have been made.
Except anything natural. The best gets used up first, the subsequent gets lower in quality and more expensive to extract.

Wood, in particular, has turned to shit and become very expensive. Bought any large teak boards recently?

Edit: and gasoline absolutely sucks dead wombats. And good, heavy leather is much harder to find. And nobody can afford solid bronze anymore. And copper gets stolen by tweakers. And fiberglass, based on oil, is expensive (is it going down with the lower price of oil?).

I give up. What material is "better" than it was 20 years ago?
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Old 12-15-2014, 06:34 AM   #51
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Well the offer was accepted on the Sabre 36 FB (no counter) so I am going to be headed up to Annapolis and looking at the boat and for a surveyor.

Many thanks for you comments on this thread. If you have any advice on what to look out for on this model I would appreciate your comments.

Don
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Old 12-15-2014, 12:27 PM   #52
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Well the offer was accepted on the Sabre 36 FB (no counter) so I am going to be headed up to Annapolis and looking at the boat and for a surveyor.
Good luck! Sabre makes a nice boat...
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Old 12-15-2014, 12:31 PM   #53
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Congratulations Steelydon! Best of luck on the transaction.
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Old 12-15-2014, 12:41 PM   #54
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With apologies for the thread hijack, Refugio your point would be well taken if I had mentioned raw materials. But I'm talking about assembled components of the boat. Consider the canvas for example. The material, the dye, the treatment solution, and even the tread itself (such as Tenara) is considerably more durable, water repellent, UV protected, and easily maintained than canvas from decades ago. New luxury vinyls are similarly rugged, stain resistant, and UV protected and are tremendous improvements. You can go down the list from better gel coat to more durable paints, to modern highly specialized fasteners, hinges, and systems connectors that provide secure, durable, and easy connection and removal. Interiors have more durable carpet with better stain resistance, and even honeycomb grids in cabinetry that provide great stiffness with less weight. Of course this isn't anything compared to the improvements in technology in the electronics, charging systems, maintenance and monitoring systems, etc.

I will acknowledge that my experience is on smaller recreational craft, not heavily built boats such as are the norm here on the forum. I apologize if my experience does not apply to these vessels.

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Old 12-15-2014, 03:41 PM   #55
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Take care with assumptions about construction. My 1981 IG turned out to have foam cored decks,in a f/g sandwich. Two small 'step up" areas where teak was used instead of foam were in a poor state.
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Old 12-15-2014, 05:45 PM   #56
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Sabreline makes a nice boat. Gorgeous woodwork and solid construction. Good looking too!

Boatdiesel.com is a good place for info on the Yanmar motors. There is a section on Yanmar motors. Don't confuse 370hp model with its big brother the 6LY2A 440hp. The 440 has a less than great reputation.

I bet if you called Sabre, they would be happy to give you information on whether the hull is cored.

Best of luck with the new boat.
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Old 12-15-2014, 06:48 PM   #57
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We are going to have to put Dons (Moonstruck) face on a milk carton. He must be doin big big "bidness" not have responded to these posts.
Sabres enjoy a great reputation, and Dons has been used/cruised more than most.
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Old 12-15-2014, 07:54 PM   #58
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We are going to have to put Don's (Moonstruck) face on a milk carton.
LOL! He certainly has been AWOL lately. Hope all is well.
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:09 PM   #59
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I certainly appreciate the concern over my health The truth is that I am just emerging from an upper repertory infection that laid me a little low. Really trying to get much better for some cruising next month.

I weighed in on the Sabre issue via PM. Actually, 36 sedan is one of my favorite models.
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:20 PM   #60
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[QUOTE=Moonstruck;291096] The truth is that I am just emerging from an upper repertory infection that laid me a little low./QUOTE]

Glad that you are performing better (sincere, not snide). Welcome back. We look forward to your next act.
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