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Old 11-19-2014, 10:27 AM   #21
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If GB is out of budget try Mainship, pretty impressive package for the price, friend has a 34 flybridge and boy that's a lot of boat.
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Old 11-19-2014, 11:18 AM   #22
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Since I anchor a lot I want an aft cabin to avoid wave slap. Avoid ladders, interior stairs may be ok, forget fly bridge. Remember you may have to move around the boat in a seaway.
IMO 12 Knots would not put most boats you describe solidly on plane.
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Old 11-19-2014, 11:48 AM   #23
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For those that owned or once owned a trunk style aft cabin, how is docking from the lower helm, not sure do you just look out the side door and use one pole as reference, or can you see aft or going to the flybridge a must?
Sorry for steering original thread, but figured it might also be informative to OP.
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Old 11-19-2014, 02:38 PM   #24
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For those that owned or once owned a trunk style aft cabin, how is docking from the lower helm, ...
We operate our boat only from the lower helm. We never drive from the flying bridge anymore for several reasons.

But even when we did, we would dock from the lower helm. We both find we can judge our boat's position better from down below than from up above, which may seem counterintuitive because of the wider view from up top. But we both feel very disconnected from the boat when we're on the flying bridge.

So even though we can't see the stern or the port quarter from the lower helm, and our view out the starboard aft window of the main cabin is largely blocked by the sailing dinghy we carry on the aft cabin top, we can sense exactly where the boat is from what we do see. So we are both very comfortable docking and maneuvering in tight quarters from down below.

Interestingly, we have a slip neighber who has a tri-cabin cruiser similar in layout to our GB. He likes to drive from the flying bridge and does so whenever the weather permits. But a year or so ago i noticed that when he comes back to his slip, when the boat is still in the fairway he comes down from the flying bridge and performs the docking itself from the lower helm.

So I asked him about this, and he said that he finds that he can judge the exact position and movements of his boat better from down below than from up above.

A big advantage in our view to docking from the lower helm is immediate access to the main deck should the other person need a hand with lines because of wind or current or whatever.

To both of us, driving from down below is just like driving a vehcile. Even though one can't see the front of the car, or the sides, or the rear, one learns to judge where they are from what they do see, and pretty soon they can drive down a narrow street at speed with cars parked on each side while looking straight ahead.

A good friend who we boat with a lot has a lobsterboat. While it has a rudimentary flying bridge, he almost always dfrives from the lower helm. And even though his boat has no aft cabin, his visibllity aft is restricted by the size of the two windowsin the aft bulkhead and door of the main cabin. And he has no problems at all judging his maneuvers from the helm seat on the starboard side of the boat.

I'm certainly not suggesting that docking from down below is better than from up above. It is for us, our lobsterboat friend, and apparently our dock neighbor, but every boater should operate from the position they are most comfortable and confident in. There is no right or wrong, only what works best.

But in our experience, docking a tri-cabin boat from the lower helm is very easy.
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Old 11-19-2014, 02:58 PM   #25
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I look out the back windows. If docking starboard side to I can just look out the door with a great view just like most boats. If port to, which hardly anybody but me seems to do....it's trickier but with practice you have a sense where things are and only is a rush or an emergency prevents me from walking over to the port salon door and taking a peek.


I have started docking from the flying bridge more, even in cold weather as my deckhand prefers to see and hear me better when on the bridge. This year we are trying headsets and my son got me a wireless camera so who knows where I may feel best at.
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Old 11-19-2014, 06:08 PM   #26
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For about 15 grand you can get a Yachtender remote wireless control system and dock from anywhere on the boat or even from a couple hundred feet down the dock. No worries about visibility just walk to where you see what is important during that stage of docking or undocking. You can pull your stern in and step off with dock lines tie up take your time then walk on dock to the bow and pull it in with the thruster grab a line and tie up. Always under control. If you have crew you can tell them to hide below when docking and look real cool.
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Old 11-20-2014, 08:03 AM   #27
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>I look out the back windows.<

For a couple of bucks we installed a car rear view mirror.

When lounging in the PH ,,putting along in the ditch with the AP steering,,

it stops the Surprise of another fish killer making another unskilled pass.
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Old 11-20-2014, 10:08 AM   #28
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I knew you folks would give me a lot to think about and so far you have not run me away from the Europa style. The problem is going to be finding a fairly new (1995+) one in my price range. I will probably look at the 38 Mariner Orient in Annapolis and was planning to look at the 40 as well but it is under contract. The 38 seems overpriced at $157K and the broker has indicated there is not much room for negotiation. The 39 Island Gypsy in RI is appealing but the forward cabin sports a V berth. Anyone out there have one they are ready to sell?

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Old 11-20-2014, 01:59 PM   #29
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I don't know why people focus so much on age. Once out of warranty how it was maintained is far more important. Buy an older boat from a fastidious owner and spend what you save on upgrades you want.
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Old 11-20-2014, 02:39 PM   #30
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I don't know why people focus so much on age. Once out of warranty how it was maintained is far more important. Buy an older boat from a fastidious owner and spend what you save on upgrades you want.
I agree. I missed seeing my current boat in my YachtWorld searches because I had set an arbitrary year of 1980 as the oldest I'd consider. Never saw the 1977 turnkey Californian with new interior and many updates/upgrades until the broker mentioned it as a possibility. When I saw her, I knew she was the right boat for us.

I got a great boat for the money and when I sell, the next lucky owner will get an even greater boat.
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Old 11-20-2014, 02:49 PM   #31
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I single-hand all the time. Most dockings are all but single for the most part. The wife snags a cleat here and there is about all.

Europa's keep you dry and out of the weather. They have great visibility from port, starboard and forward. Open the doors and walk out to either side to get a better view. When it's nice out, I love standing in the starboard door opening and driving from there. You can stand there and catch the fresh air, the scenery and stay dry at the same time.

We love ours. (CHB 42 Europa)
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Old 11-20-2014, 03:04 PM   #32
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Older twin engine GBs have their shift and power levers reversed in position from the later ones (and most other similar types of boats). On our boat, the two shift levers are on the right and the power levers are on the left. This means that I can stand on the starboard side deck, or lean out the door, and the shifters are easy to reach for maneuvering. On a later GB, the shifters would be too far away and I'd have to step back into the cabin to move them.

I don't know when GB changed the arrangement to power on the right and shifters on trhe left, but I'm glad ours are the way they are. Sometimes older is better.
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Old 11-20-2014, 04:50 PM   #33
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Bayview and Al, you are right about the age and I have arbitrarily equated age with condition which is my mistake. I would certainly consider an older boat and I was on a 38 Marine Trader this past weekend which was in excellent condition and had been well maintained by the current owner. My concerns on that boat were the generator was 4.5KW which I felt was too small to push the ac and water heater, the ac was too small for NC summers and the flybridge extension over the cockpit was not high enough to walk under without ducking my head. I do have concerns about systems that are pushing 30 years w/o replacement and the wiring I have seen on some older boats don't meet my standards much less ABYC. But I was wrong to exclude a boat simply due to age. The Chris Craft refit I completed this year is a prime example of a refit negating age.

thanks,

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Old 11-20-2014, 05:36 PM   #34
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....The 39 Island Gypsy in RI is appealing but the forward cabin sports a V berth....
Don
The "v-berth" of our 1981 IG36 Europa is close to queen size and partly walk around, so check carefully, it may not be pure v berth.
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Old 11-23-2014, 08:57 PM   #35
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Mariner Orient 38



Mariner Orient 38 fits your needs. Couple in MD.
Mine is pic below. Love the boat!
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Old 12-11-2014, 03:22 PM   #36
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Also check out the OA classic 430.
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Old 12-11-2014, 07:50 PM   #37
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Is a Sedan/Europa a Good Option?

I think an OA or CHB Europa are good lower priced options. We had seriously considered this style with a single engine as we went through our search. After over 2 years looking around we shifted to the Pilothouse layout, with a definite preference for a KK42 over all makes. I still believe the Europa style is a nice option and I'm sure we could have been satisfied with one. As will all boats, buy the best, most recent one available.

I should add that there's a woman in the PNW who operates a KK39 single handed. I'm sure that certain operations would be difficult, but possible with a joystick remote or similar unit.


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Old 12-12-2014, 07:19 AM   #38
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>I don't know why people focus so much on age. Once out of warranty how it was maintained is far more important. Buy an older boat from a fastidious owner and spend what you save on upgrades you want.<

Be it ever so slow , boat assemblers will slowly get rid of gross mistakes over the years .So a somewhat newer hull might require less maint in the long haul.
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Old 12-12-2014, 07:59 AM   #39
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I should add that there's a woman in the PNW who operates a KK39 single handed. I'm sure that certain operations would be difficult, but possible with a joystick remote or similar unit.
At the risk of some thread creep, I just noticed that the KK39 seems to have quietly disappeared from KK's website this year.
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Old 12-12-2014, 09:16 AM   #40
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>I don't know why people focus so much on age. Once out of warranty how it was maintained is far more important. Buy an older boat from a fastidious owner and spend what you save on upgrades you want.<

Be it ever so slow , boat assemblers will slowly get rid of gross mistakes over the years .So a somewhat newer hull might require less maint in the long haul.
I also think about it in terms of materials quality. Many materials tend to advance in quality over time, and stay better once those advancements have been made.
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