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Old 08-27-2013, 11:01 AM   #1
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Sea Trial, mechanical, move forward?

Good morning,
Yesterday we started our survey and mechanical on an 81 34' Convertible Tolly twin Crusaders. The mechanical so far has gone well. Temps held and were ok through WOT. However we only acheived 3100 RPMs during the sea trial. We believe that this was caused to several things, a fair amount of growth on the shaft and prop as the owner hasn't had the bottom attended to since 2/12. In addition there is a heavy tender on the back of the vessel as well as full tanks and six souls aboard.
However during the survey there were several key things found during the process. Last year the owner had the tanks scrubbed and all fuel polished. In the process the company that completed the work cut the aluminum tanks and put clean out plates on the side of the tanks. To which my surveyor says, "that is illegal." In a gas vessel you can not have any holes in the tanks on the side. No way to easily fix this issue now! The motors have to be removed to replace the tanks or hire someone that can weld the plates now back. Either way it's a safety issue.
The other issue, the deck has "plenty" of moisture. After doing a hammer and moisture reading in the cockpit around the lazerette cover extending about one feet around the piano hinge the moisture reader is pegged. The surveyor believes that the screws holding the hinge have allowed water into the core. In addition on the starboard side just aft of a filler running eight feet back to the salon. It appears it was the owner installed filler that has caused this. There is delamination occurring in both areas. Either way it has to be repaired and would probably cost more to repair the faux teak decking. So we would have to grind the old decking off and apply a non skid. OUCH....
Blisters - the surveyor didn't think they were to much of an issue. His recommendation, watch them each hull out and if changes occur repair. I didn't take pictures unfortunately but I would say there is maybe a total of 100 on the hull? But then again we could have some under the bottom paint, either way he didn't think there was anything to worry about.
Add a handful of other minor issues which I would equate to an older boat. Everything on the list could be repaired to the tune of maybe $500.
I guess my two major concerns at this point is the amount of moisture present in the decking and the extent of the fix needed to properly address the issue. In addition, plates on the gas tank. I asked for his professional opinion on the overall condition and he said better than most in this vintage.
I'd appreciate any feedback at this point. Has anyone had repairs to decking? What kind of cost did you occur? Should we keep looking? Should I expect this kind of condition in a 30+ year old boat and just fix it? We're looking at needing to spend about $8k on canvas as there is none. Now thousands more to resolve the moisture issues. So the boat is climbing to the mid $40s with all the needed work and improvements.
Thanks much for your help!
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:36 AM   #2
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>I guess my two major concerns at this point is the amount of moisture present in the decking and the extent of the fix needed to properly address the issue. In addition, plates on the gas tank.<

IF there is no sign of structural failure , cracked, crazed broken surface finish , I would ignore the moisture , or at best dry it out over a winter , or with heat , and simply do a proper workman like job on the hinge screws.

Should the info be correct about the tank hole either welding or a bladder would be easy cure.
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:50 AM   #3
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Yes there is cracks, probably three to each side about the size of half of a dollar or so. There was also a bracket bolted to this area to support the dink lift. This may have also been the area of water intrusion.
In both areas of the deck there is slight delamination that has occured as you can hear the "tacking" between layers of skin as you depress the area. This maybe gel again fiber but their bond is no longer viable. Previous repair attempts have injected epoxy in this area small holes with epoxy showing.
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Old 08-27-2013, 12:20 PM   #4
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Why buy the boat given the issues? Especially with the potentially explosive tanks. Forty year old problems sounds like a walk to me especially with the plethora of boats for sale in the PNW.
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Old 08-27-2013, 12:31 PM   #5
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We're about 5-10k under current pricing in the area. I am willing to deal with some of the minor issues which I don't believe to be owner neglect. He just didn't know about some of the issues. Example would be some of the non op equipment on the fly bridge because he doesn't use the fly.
I know that all boats in this vintage will have problems. The deck is my largest concern above any other. The tanks can be welded, bladder installed as previously posted sounds like an option, etc. Heck - even new tanks installed if the Polishing company is going to carry the bill as it was their error.
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Old 08-27-2013, 12:32 PM   #6
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Just as a point of reference we are currently under $40k cash purchase on this vessel.
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Old 08-27-2013, 03:54 PM   #7
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Question, who/how do you go about welding a gas tank?

I would think that would be quite a job and one I would like to see....from a distance.
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Old 08-27-2013, 04:34 PM   #8
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Empty gas, fill with water, weld, drain water, dry and refill. Quite labor entensive. Might be more cost affective to replace. Anyone know approximately how much complete replacement would be?
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Old 08-27-2013, 04:57 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Why buy the boat given the issues? Especially with the potentially explosive tanks. Forty year old problems sounds like a walk to me especially with the plethora of boats for sale in the PNW.
Agree with sunchaser...
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:33 PM   #10
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So for spending 35-40k I should expect less trouble and a better kept boat in the PNW? If so does anyone have any leads?
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:46 PM   #11
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We have already spent close to 1500 in survey, hull out, wash, and mechanical. I hate to do this too many times. Guessa moisture reader is in my future.
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:26 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by bshillam View Post
We have already spent close to 1500 in survey, hull out, wash, and mechanical. I hate to do this too many times. Guessa moisture reader is in my future.

Looking at 30-40 year old boats, you'll never find one that is perfect for your budget. At those prices, and I'm certainly in the same situation, treat the boat as a car. Use it, take care of it, but don't chase problems. The blisters are nothing and most likely are cosmetic. The boat isn't going to sink on you. The decks, if not spongy, will probably last a long time, you're not going to fall through.

No offense to the other gentleman in this thread, but the guys telling you to run have $150K+ boats. Of course they would run.

Is the boat usable (engine, systems)? Is it's appearance pleasing to you? If so, buy the boat and enjoy the hell out of it for the next decade. Possibly think about covered moorage to keep it dry (LaConner is cheap!). Good luck to you.
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Old 08-27-2013, 08:09 PM   #13
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Fact - Less expensive boats have warts

Fact - Expensive boats do too, just less noticeable ones

So far none of the deficiencies you've mentioned scare me off. Negotiate a lower price if they do not scare you either, especially if they where not disclosed prior to your offer. If you're uncomfortable walk away considering it $1,500 well spent.
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Old 08-27-2013, 08:20 PM   #14
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With 3 substantial issues it sound marginal. If you like the boat, price the repairs and deduct that from fair value for a boat in good order,plus a "pain and suffering" component for taking it on. If you can buy for that, go for it.
Do not disregard the blisters. Repair is labour intensive and requires extended haul out.
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:01 PM   #15
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With 3 substantial issues it sound marginal. If you like the boat, price the repairs and deduct that from fair value for a boat in good order,plus a "pain and suffering" component for taking it on. If you can buy for that, go for it.
Do not disregard the blisters. Repair is labour intensive and requires extended haul out.
Blisters are cosmetic, per his surveyor. I've never seen a boat sink from blisters, especially in the NW. Most blisters are actually in the bottom paint rendering them nothing more than an eye sore for the first 10 minutes after taking it out of the water. Blister issues are mainly scare tactics from yards who want costly repair jobs. Someone will have to show me pictures of boats that sunk or had to be scrapped due to blisters before I change my mind.
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Old 08-28-2013, 01:29 AM   #16
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We're about 5-10k under current pricing in the area.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:43 AM   #17
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Good quote,
however I don't think it's necessarily the wrong boat. Just has some issues that should be addressed. At this point we're working on getting a quote to grind the faux teak deck off and replace with non skid, address the moisture areas whether rot or needing drying and resealing around the deck hardware, in addition what the fix would be to those darn tanks. If we can get those things fixed and or agree on a financial amount I feel this would be a great boat for the family now and in the future. We have looked at a fair amount of boats all the way up to 100k and this feels like a good value, not a steal, but a good value.
I mainly want to insure that I am not approaching this emotionally. Or should I say as unemotionally as possible. After all, why do we buy pleasure boats? To satisfy an emotion, some might try to argue a need, but it really is an emotion we're satisfying. Call it crazy but being on the water is my therapy.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:52 AM   #18
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Funny, the biggest worry for me was the engines lack of getting to WOT RPM's, I would have preferred the owner resolve this issue, neg down a few bucks due to moisture and call it a day. Not sure for me personally would worry about access hatch in gas tank if it looks properly done.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:52 AM   #19
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This is simple, and nothing else matters untill you resolve this issue.

If the surveyor says the fuel tanks are illegal, then you will probably not be issued an insurance policy untill they are repaired.

I would not spend another dime on that boat untill you determine how you as the new owner would resolve the fuel tank issue.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:53 AM   #20
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Actually a very good point:
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This is simple, and nothing else matters untill you resolve this issue.

If the surveyor says the fuel tanks are illegal, then you will probably not be issued an insurance policy untill they are repaired.

I would not spend another dime on that boat untill you determine how you as the new owner would resolve the fuel tank issue.
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