School of hard knocks

[fryedaze]

I am new to this cruising game and on a regular basis I learn a new lesson in the school of hard knock. Wednesday we were cruising north on the Alligator River Pungo canal. We had just passed under the Fairfield Bridge. About 2miles up the canal were three sailboats in a line heading south. As they closed at about ¾ of a mile the 2nd sailboat decides to pass the first. The sailboat that was being overtaken didn’t slow and the passing boat gave them a wide berth. This forced me to slow to idle and move over as far as I could. Well I probably hit a stump while I was pushed out of the channel. The woman driving the sailboat was oblivious as she chatted with her mates and gave the other sailboat much more room than it needed. I now have a vibration in my starboard gear train and can actually see a small vibration in the stern tube at 1600 rpm. Boat speed isn’t affected. Best case I bent a prop. Worst case my shaft is bent.
Lesson learned, I will never be that accommodating again. I will hail other boats immediately when these situations occur.​

 

[Billyfeet]

Sorry to hear this. I have had similar experiences, only once with a prop getting nicked. I have learned to use the horn early and insistently.

 

[rwidman]

I am new to this cruising game and on a regular basis I learn a new lesson in the school of hard knock. Wednesday we were cruising north on the Alligator River Pungo canal. We had just passed under the Fairfield Bridge. About 2miles up the canal were three sailboats in a line heading south. As they closed at about ¾ of a mile the 2nd sailboat decides to pass the first. The sailboat that was being overtaken didn’t slow and the passing boat gave them a wide berth. This forced me to slow to idle and move over as far as I could. Well I probably hit a stump while I was pushed out of the channel. The woman driving the sailboat was oblivious as she chatted with her mates and gave the other sailboat much more room than it needed. I now have a vibration in my starboard gear train and can actually see a small vibration in the stern tube at 1600 rpm. Boat speed isn’t affected. Best case I bent a prop. Worst case my shaft is bent.

Lesson learned, I will never be that accommodating again. I will hail other boats immediately when these situations occur. ​

I have been forced out of the channel myself more than once but never had any damage. Each time I swear I'll never do it again but it's a natural reaction to avoid a collision.

The other thing I've noticed is, when trying to hail these boats, they most often don't respond to VHF calls or even horn signals. I have an extra loud two trumpet electric horn but even that doesn't work. Sometimes I think the boat must be on autopilot.

I'm glad you posted what you did, it's a warning for all of us.

 

[Tingum]

Communicate, communicate, communicate!

 

[siestakey]

Very sorry to hear that hoping it is just a prop job

 

[Willow-B]

I had the same experience as described and did, in fact, bend a prop. Now If I am being crowded on the 1-whistle side, I communicate this and cross to the 2-whistle side.

Others have complained, but I find that as they don't share in my repair bill, they have absolutely zero say. I am NOT aggressive, but assertive when need be.

Larger commercial boats/tugs, etc get all the maneuvering room they need/want.

 

[psneeld]

Near the same place a large tug and tow forced me over and I bumped, but the full keel did it's thing.

If in the same situation again, go to idle or even neutral a different immediately and try to make contact. Take a pic if you or crew can, video better.

If unable in a few seconds, make a call on 16 stating you have slowed or stopped and they are putting you in danger and briefly describe why. Hopefully the USCG radio system will record it. Start sounding the danger/doubt signal as soon as possible (continuous short blasts).

It's better if the blasts are during your radio transmission so they can be heard in the background unless too loud.

If I have to clear the channel, better to be slow and go bow first leaving the props in deeper water (if possible).

My guess is you bow looks massive as most sailboats on the ICW can't be too big cause of mast height, I think if you lay the horn with the danger/doubt signal, hard to imagine them not falling back know in line.

 

[Steve]

I have been forced out of the channel myself more than once but never had any damage. Each time I swear I'll never do it again but it's a natural reaction to avoid a collision.

The other thing I've noticed is, when trying to hail these boats, they most often don't respond to VHF calls or even horn signals. I have an extra loud two trumpet electric horn but even that doesn't work. Sometimes I think the boat must be on autopilot.

More likely on "dumbpilot"

 

[rwidman]

I had a trawler (bigger than mine and headed toward me) take the very center of a narrow canal on the AICW north of Charleston, SC. I called on the VHF, no response. I sounded the danger signal several times. No response. I sounded the danger signal on my portable air horn. No response. And of course he was trailing a wake so that when I pulled out of the channel and slowed to idle he rocked me pretty good.

Short of a shotgun, I don't know what to do with these people.

 

[psneeld]

My intent for the call and the whistle is more for documentation by the USCG just in case it ever goes further than a bad passing.

Sure some aren't paying attention, some don't know any better, some don't care and even some of the people feeling pushed over are not all that perceptive.

While things are sometimes bad...being to nice isn't the answer.

Then there are times grounding beats the alternative such as a dredge and trailing 1000 feet of pipe give you no choice.

 

[Ski in NC]

This is a case where a really good horn makes a difference. I have been in the same situation in a narrow channel. Two sailboats trying to pass abreast, taking up the whole channel. Horns are pneumatic, running off a pancake compressor in engine room, 90psi. Pull the air valve partially, it sounds a mild tone. No response from sailboats. I slow to dead idle, hold course as I have no intention of running aground. Next, repeat full blasts, no stoppin until I see the sailboat altering, which he eventually did.

The key is that horn is extremely loud and impossible for a sailboat to ignore. There is something psychological about how loud the horn is.

Regarding tows in narrow channels, I have turned around and run ahead of them in order to avoid a pass. Fortunately I knew there was a duck-in spot about half mile back, so it was no big deal.

Alligator/Pungo canal is a bad spot. Center of channel is not always centered between banks. That can throw someone off. Got to be careful there.

 

[chester613]

I try and never be forced out of the channel. You, as captain are supposed to everything reasonable to avoid a collision. I have crossed over a bow to get someone's attention. I find by moving VERY noticeably is needed at times. I always try port to port, but if I have to, I will cross them on the starboard side. I usually have a few "hand signals" as I pass! I have actually stopped in a channel, because I knew there was only 2 feet of water waiting for me. There is no cure for stupid!

 

[DauntlessFirstMate]

No Good Deed Goes Unpunished

 

[Willow-B]

You, as captain are supposed to do everything reasonable to avoid a collision

This is True. There is no excuse for a collision and should be avoided at all costs.

BUT... I will NOT ground my vessel, due to the actions of another.

 

[Marin]

I now have a vibration in my starboard gear train and can actually see a small vibration in the stern tube at 1600 rpm.
​

You might not want to run that shaft and prop until you can get the boat hauled or dove on to determine the cause of the problem. Continuing to use the starboard engine could make matters worse.

If your boat handles okay on one engine, it might be prudent to tie off the starboard shaft (if necessary-- it is on our boat) and continue on one until you can get to a yard you want to use. You can always start up the starboard engine (remembering to untie the shaft if you've tied it up) and use both engines for slow-speed maneuvering.

 

[fryedaze]

Thanks for the advice Marin. I may do that for the last 100 miles up the Chesapeake home. I can run on one engine and allow the Velvet Drive S7000 series free-wheel. Not looking forward to the haul out.

 

[healhustler]

Sorry about the penalty for your accommodating boatmanship, Dave. It could have been the same for me, ...probably would have been.

 

[rwidman]

............ Regarding tows in narrow channels, I have turned around and run ahead of them in order to avoid a pass. Fortunately I knew there was a duck-in spot about half mile back, so it was no big deal..

Getting out of the way of a tug and barge or tow that is wide enough to take up most of the channel is expected and good seamanship. Often, if you monitor channel 16 and 13 you will hear their warnings.

Being forced out of the channel by some nimrod operating a pleasure boat and not responding to radio and horn warnings is something we shouldn't have to put up with.

 

[hmason]

We are on our last 2 days of our migration from CT to Stuart FL. After running for over 1,400 miles, I am stunned by the number of boats that either don't turn on their VHF radios or do not respond when you try to communicate. I am also amazed by the number of boats with their names obscured by dinghies hanging over them, have no names, or names that are illegible or unpronounceable. There are times I have been reduced to turning on the loud hailer. Oh well.

 

[Ronald]

Saw a near collision on this same canal a month ago. I was south bound with a line on sailboats and trawlers when two 50 plus foot go fast yachts came blasting and weaving through the line of slower boats. When they approached the Fairfield bridge the first boat went around a Albin 36 at a modest speed and passed under the bridge. The second yacht sped up to get ahead of the trawler and through the bridge to keep up with his buddy. The trawler yelled on channel 16 for the yacht slow and allow him to pass since he was entering the fenders of the bridge. Fortunately for all concerned the yacht did yield and the trawler passed safely. The yelling on the VHF worked. Met the Albin that night in Belhaven and he said it was a close call and very unnerving for them. Moral of the story, the Alligator/ Pungo canal requires careful navigation. Many tugs with barges past through this canal also.

 

[Marin]

I can run on one engine and allow the Velvet Drive S7000 series free-wheel. Not looking forward to the haul out.

I appologize if I'm telling you what you already know, but if your boat uses a water feed to the cutless bearings in the shaft log, you may not want to freewheel the shaft even if the transmission is okay with this. Without that cooling water flow to the shaft log, you could heat things up pretty severely to the point of damage. Tying off the shaft elimates this problem.

We have Velvet Drive transmissions and the manual says they can be freewheeled at slow speeds, which they define as "trolling or sailing" speed. Not a very exact definition, unfortunately.

Our boat does have cooling water feeds to the shaft logs, so on the occasions when we've had to come home on one, we have always tied off the shaft.

 

[FlyWright]

My PSS Seal guidance states cooling water is not needed at speeds less than 12 kts. I have cooling water and have a crossover line that provides positive water flow from either operating engine to both seals. Overkill since it's not really even needed on my boat cruising at 7.5 kts, but it's there anyway. Yours might be similar.

After my second issue with prop damage (submerged log), I went to Prop Scan for the tuning of both props. Now the next time I tweek a prop (I know it'll happen!!), I'll only have to pull the affected prop to have it tuned back to its original pitch which matches the opposite prop and not pull both props. That should save money and time.

A good diver can measure the shaft while it's in the water and pull the affected prop. Maybe it'll save the expense of haul out. I hope yours is a simple fix.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

My PSS Seal guidance

After my second issue with prop damage (submerged log), I went to Prop Scan for the tuning of both props. Now the next time I tweek a prop (I know it'll happen!!), I'll only have to pull the affected prop to have it tuned back to its original pitch which matches the opposite prop and not pull both props. That should save money and time.

With or with out having had your props redone using Pro Scan, if only one got dinged why would you have to have both props pulled and reconditioned?

 

[Ski in NC]

With or with out having had your props redone using Pro Scan, if only one got dinged why would you have to have both props pulled and reconditioned?

If they had not been scanned recently, the repaired prop pitch might not match the other. So it is common to pull both to match, even though one needs no repair. With scans in hand, they can be matched even with one left under the boat.

 

[FF]

>Short of a shotgun, I don't know what to do with these people.<

A signal cannon , 12Ga with blank black powder loads , is louder than the shot gun and costs less than a short haul.

If cruising the AICW out of season it is a requirement for bridge tenders to hear over the TV.

 

[fryedaze]

I appologize if I'm telling you what you already know, but if your boat uses a water feed to the cutless bearings in the shaft log, you may not want to freewheel the shaft even if the transmission is okay with this. Without that cooling water flow to the shaft log, you could heat things up pretty severely to the point of damage. Tying off the shaft elimates this problem.

We have Velvet Drive transmissions and the manual says they can be freewheeled at slow speeds, which they define as "trolling or sailing" speed. Not a very exact definition, unfortunately.

Our boat does have cooling water feeds to the shaft logs, so on the occasions when we've had to come home on one, we have always tied off the shaft.

Thanks Marin, I really appreciate your follow up on my responses. I have the old fashion packing that was just repacked in the spring with GFO Gor Tex. We have run once before on one engine for 5 hours. During that period I used the IR thermometer on everything and all stayed cool. Keep the thoughts coming

 

[Capt.Bill11]

If they had not been scanned recently, the repaired prop pitch might not match the other. So it is common to pull both to match, even though one needs no repair.

With scans in hand, they can be matched even with one left under the boat.

Hmmm... If you say so. Can't say I've heard or seen pulling both props when only one has been damaged. Other than perhaps and as you mentioned, it's been quite a while since both props where tuned.

Heck, sportfish captains hate touching their props at all if the boat is a know fish raiser.

Sure. And not to say Prop Scan is not worth doing. But even with old school prop reports they could be matched, at the very least close enough for a trawler.

 

[FlyWright]

With or with out having had your props redone using Pro Scan, if only one got dinged why would you have to have both props pulled and reconditioned?

The prop profile resides in the prop scan computer and can be duplicated with the single prop. No longer a need to have both props side by side to replicate the pitch.

 

[Ski in NC]

Hmmm... If you say so. Can't say I've heard or seen pulling both props when only one has been damaged. Other than perhaps and as you mentioned, it's been quite a while since both props where tuned.

Heck, sportfish captains hate touching their props at all if the boat is a know fish raiser.

Sure. And not to say Prop Scan is not worth doing. But even with old school prop reports they could be matched, at the very least close enough for a trawler.

It's a big deal on fast boats, where you want to match engine loads at same rpm. I have to deal with that often. Not a big deal on a boat going hullspeed.

 

[gwkiwi]

In skinny water I have learnt not to move over when restricted by draft. We draw 5'7" on a good day and have had ski boats yell at me in narrow areas because I have not moved over far enough for them as far as they were concerned when in reality I was already over as far as possible.

As someone else said know your boats limitations and don't be afraid to stand your ground if all other contact efforts fail.

Having a 10'+ bow also helps I must admit my attitude on boaters having passed a license test has changed based on some of the experiences we saw on our Great Loop trip.