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Old 09-17-2016, 05:35 AM   #161
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Do you really think that the typical sailboat owner knows or cares to change lighting depending whether the boat is under sail or power? If it has sails up, give it the benefit of the doubt. Unless it is the blackest night on earth you can usually see the sails no matter what lights are showing.
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Old 09-17-2016, 07:47 AM   #162
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We sure make a lot of broad generalities about other boaters here, don't we? Actually, most of the people I sail with understand the difference between a steaming light and an anchor light and would never push rules of the road to the point that the boat in the OP's account did. There are idiots in every form of boating . . . whether they have masts or not. Now PWC jockeys are another matter . . . .
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Old 09-17-2016, 07:56 AM   #163
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I agree that most boaters of either persuasion probably know the difference between steaming lights and anchor lights. But, I thought this thread was about the difference between lights shown by a sailboat sailing vs a sailboat under power.
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Old 09-17-2016, 08:01 AM   #164
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We sure make a lot of broad generalities about other boaters here, don't we? Actually, most of the people I sail with understand the difference between a steaming light and an anchor light and would never push rules of the road to the point that the boat in the OP's account did. There are idiots in every form of boating . . . whether they have masts or not. Now PWC jockeys are another matter . . . .
....even my 1977 Cape Dory had "steaming light" on the electric panel. Maybe they should go back to that term.

But on many forums predominate by sailors...most laugh at steaming cones and swear they have never seen one.

Have to agree there...pretty rare.

So my cut is that most boaters pick and choose what rules they see as important in the real world.

As someone pointed out, is it really a big deal if you are a sailboat with its motor running/pushing and everyone treats you like a sailing vessel? Especially because no one expects anyone else on the water to know or understand the rules?

Heck I don't know....but I do know that I follow the rules till I clearly suspect the other guy isn't going to follow them.

Because as I posted before, avoiding a collision in our smallish boats is usually pretty easy so I can wait until the last moment usually.

When towing and I am restricted in the ability to manuever, I do lay on the continuous blasts of the horn....it is the only thing that seems to work....and even then not all the time.
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Old 09-17-2016, 08:46 AM   #165
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I agree that most boaters of either persuasion probably know the difference between steaming lights and anchor lights. But, I thought this thread was about the difference between lights shown by a sailboat sailing vs a sailboat under power.

It should have been. But as seen the thread never brought that up until much later. But this thread is an excellent example of how 'stories' grow and gain traction as 'the truth' when after all the details are out the 'perceived incident' isn't exactly like it was originally portrayed.


To recap: A vessel (A) was underway at night. Another vessel (S) was seen ahead. The vessel (S) was described as a sailing vessel which vessel A perceived to be 'stand on' because they were a SV.

Later vessel A had to take evasive action in extremis to avoid collision with vessel s. So who was not paying attention?

The 'incorrect lights' by vessel S didn't seem to be a concern to Vessel A. That is a huge alarm bell for me. It shows someone's clueless.
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Old 09-17-2016, 09:19 AM   #166
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I agree that most boaters of either persuasion probably know the difference between steaming lights and anchor lights.
Think so? Go look at a thread named "Anchor Light Regulations" on the sister site (I don't know how to link it).
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Old 09-17-2016, 11:02 AM   #167
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Common guys and gals - We're not talking about 1000 ++ ton ocean liners here with considerably restricted "quick maneuvering" capabilities.


We're mainly [in this forum anyway] mulling over the capability of our little [25' to 60'] quick turn/stop/accelerate pleasure cruiser motor boats capability to avoid disastrous collisions with any other type boat [sail or pwr]. And, shoals, floating debris, docks too for that matter.


Of course sail boaters can be a big pia. But so can pwr boaters who get all anal retentive about the whole "right-of-way" thang!

So I leave it at this statement. IMO: All pleasure boat captains of any type boat should leave their right-of-way egos at the dock. Sure there will be times when another boater may act as a puffed up a-hole regarding the ways of boating and sure there are plenty of pleasure boaters that have not a clue regarding what is/are correct actions to take on the water - BUT - So What?? Simply keep your eyes open and avoid all chances of collision at nearly any cost (especially the cost of temporally deflated ego) is the way to correctly play the pleasure boating game.

So, I repeat. "Here lies the body of one Michael O'Day. He died defending his right-of-way. He was right, dead right, as he sailed along... but he's just as dead as if he were wrong!"

Lighten up, loosen up, enjoy pleasure boating and most importantly stay alive!!

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Old 09-20-2016, 02:48 AM   #168
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Common guys and gals - We're not talking about 1000 ++ ton ocean liners here with considerably restricted "quick maneuvering" capabilities.


We're mainly [in this forum anyway] mulling over the capability of our little [25' to 60'] quick turn/stop/accelerate pleasure cruiser motor boats capability to avoid disastrous collisions with any other type boat [sail or pwr]. And, shoals, floating debris, docks too for that matter.


Of course sail boaters can be a big pia. But so can pwr boaters who get all anal retentive about the whole "right-of-way" thang!

So I leave it at this statement. IMO: All pleasure boat captains of any type boat should leave their right-of-way egos at the dock. Sure there will be times when another boater may act as a puffed up a-hole regarding the ways of boating and sure there are plenty of pleasure boaters that have not a clue regarding what is/are correct actions to take on the water - BUT - So What?? Simply keep your eyes open and avoid all chances of collision at nearly any cost (especially the cost of temporally deflated ego) is the way to correctly play the pleasure boating game.

So, I repeat. "Here lies the body of one Michael O'Day. He died defending his right-of-way. He was right, dead right, as he sailed along... but he's just as dead as if he were wrong!"

Lighten up, loosen up, enjoy pleasure boating and most importantly stay alive!!

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Well said, Art..... how true.
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Old 09-20-2016, 06:28 AM   #169
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Up until the maritime hearing.....
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Old 09-20-2016, 08:10 AM   #170
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It pays to observe the same "rules of the road" on the road as well!! Could not agree with you more, especially in these days of texting instead of looking where driving (car or boat). I try to keep out of the way of other drivers regardless!!
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Old 09-20-2016, 08:39 AM   #171
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Up until the maritime hearing.....
Maritime hearing or not, and outcome of such a hearing... Michael O'Day is still dead due to his refusal to let go of his own presumed (and very possibly correct) "right-of-way" rights! Unfortunately... maybe others are harmed or dead too.

Where as, good ol' Michael O'Day could have simply bit the bullet that time of dangerous boat position confluence and conceded passage to the other (very possibly incorrect) right-of-way usage Captain.

It's pretty easy to drive to stay alive. A lot easier than what happened to Michael O'Day during that time of his puffed-up ego; i.e., attempting to prove beyond a doubt that he had THE Right-Of-Way... which he probably did! But, so what??!!

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Old 09-20-2016, 03:17 PM   #172
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Of course sail boaters can be a big pia. But so can pwr boaters who get all anal retentive about the whole "right-of-way" thang!
:

There are places I AVOID if at all possible and that is getting in the way of sailboat races. They become arrogant SOBs if you even hint of challenging them. And I found this true many times in my SAILBOAT!
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Old 09-20-2016, 03:49 PM   #173
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There are places I AVOID if at all possible and that is getting in the way of sailboat races. They become arrogant SOBs if you even hint of challenging them. And I found this true many times in my SAILBOAT!
So do bicyclists, especially those in events. I'm fine when they take one lane especially when it's marked as a biking lane, but when there are two lanes in the direction and they decide to take both, and a line of traffic piles up for miles. Worst is two cyclists who decide they must ride side by side but not too close, so take both lanes. I'm happy to give the right of way but not to surrender the entire road.
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Old 09-20-2016, 04:55 PM   #174
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Yeah, and in Massachusetts it is now legal for bikes to ride two by two
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Old 09-20-2016, 06:42 PM   #175
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Yeah, and in Massachusetts it is now legal for bikes to ride two by two
Two by two in one lane I can live with, but it's when bicycles block the entire road, I have a problem.
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Old 09-20-2016, 07:04 PM   #176
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Is this part of the the rationale for having Rules? If all boats apply the Rules, all boats have a reasonable expectation how other boats will behave in a given situation.
The overriding obligation to avoid collision remains paramount. But even then, if one boat turns away in accordance with the Rules, and the other turns away contrary to the Rules,they may still collide, eg in a meeting head on situation. The Rules do matter.
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Old 09-20-2016, 07:15 PM   #177
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Is this part of the the rationale for having Rules? If all boats apply the Rules, all boats have a reasonable expectation how other boats will behave in a given situation.
The overriding obligation to avoid collision remains paramount. But even then, if one boat turns away in accordance with the Rules, and the other turns away contrary to the Rules,they may still collide, eg in a meeting head on situation. The Rules do matter.
Of course the rules matter....

But much like 4 cars coming to a 4 way stop, and no one quite sure who should go first....if there is a collision with any of the 4 stopped cars....2 people are complete idiots and terrible drivers.

Follow the rules, but if you can't manuever most 65 and under boats pretty handily, meaning avoiding a collusion from an extremis situation easily, maybe you better turn it over to a Capt that can?
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Old 09-20-2016, 07:57 PM   #178
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Of course the rules matter....

But much like 4 cars coming to a 4 way stop, and no one quite sure who should go first....if there is a collision with any of the 4 stopped cars....2 people are complete idiots and terrible drivers.

Follow the rules, but if you can't manuever most 65 and under boats pretty handily, meaning avoiding a collusion from an extremis situation easily, maybe you better turn it over to a Capt that can?
If everyone followed the rules on the road, there would never be any wrecks. However, there are a lot. Many are avoided however by defensive driving and anticipating other cars won't follow the rules. Boating is no different.
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Old 09-20-2016, 09:39 PM   #179
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Of course the rules matter....

But much like 4 cars coming to a 4 way stop, and no one quite sure who should go first....if there is a collision with any of the 4 stopped cars....2 people are complete idiots and terrible drivers.

Follow the rules, but if you can't manuever most 65 and under boats pretty handily, meaning avoiding a collusion from an extremis situation easily, maybe you better turn it over to a Capt that can?
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Old 09-20-2016, 09:53 PM   #180
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If everyone followed the rules on the road, there would never be any wrecks. However, there are a lot. Many are avoided however by defensive driving and anticipating other cars won't follow the rules. Boating is no different.
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