Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-15-2016, 08:10 AM   #141
omc
Senior Member
 
omc's Avatar
 
City: Antibes
Country: France
Vessel Name: LUTIN
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 42' Motor Yacht
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by GFC View Post
Well, we all know THAT is a truism!
LOL !

My friend, I wonder what would have happened if your guests were boys instead of girls ? Would you had passed the helm to Tina ? Would the skipper of the sailboat had changed course to cross your path ? I am a little curious about that.

There are still some open questions and they are not going to be resolved by looking at the pictures of your day. Then we will never know.

(Only kidding of course ).
__________________
Advertisement

omc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2016, 08:40 AM   #142
Veteran Member
 
OldToby's Avatar
 
City: Hope, Idaho
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Mary Elyse
Vessel Model: 1964 Boston Whaler Eastport
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 31
A few years ago, two cars collided at the uncontrolled intersection in front of my parents' house, located in a quiet, leafy neighborhood with not much traffic. My old dad wandered out, hands in pockets, to have a look, and engaged one of the agitated drivers in conversation. The man, visibly (and audibly) angry and upset, insisted over and over again that since his had been the car to the other driver's right, he had had the right of way, and the other driver was therefore at fault. My unflappable dad (rest his soul) looked at the man's mashed-up vehicle steaming away in the middle of the intersection and quietly said, "Well, it doesn't matter much now, does it?"
__________________

OldToby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2016, 10:38 AM   #143
omc
Senior Member
 
omc's Avatar
 
City: Antibes
Country: France
Vessel Name: LUTIN
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 42' Motor Yacht
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldToby View Post
A few years ago, two cars collided at the uncontrolled intersection in front of my parents' house, located in a quiet, leafy neighborhood with not much traffic. My old dad wandered out, hands in pockets, to have a look, and engaged one of the agitated drivers in conversation. The man, visibly (and audibly) angry and upset, insisted over and over again that since his had been the car to the other driver's right, he had had the right of way, and the other driver was therefore at fault. My unflappable dad (rest his soul) looked at the man's mashed-up vehicle steaming away in the middle of the intersection and quietly said, "Well, it doesn't matter much now, does it?"
This well shows that between theory and practice only reality matters.
omc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2016, 01:52 PM   #144
GFC
Guru
 
GFC's Avatar
 
City: Tri Cities, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Beachcomber
Vessel Model: Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,500
Quote:
Originally Posted by omc View Post
LOL !

My friend, I wonder what would have happened if your guests were boys instead of girls ? Would you had passed the helm to Tina ? Would the skipper of the sailboat had changed course to cross your path ? I am a little curious about that.

There are still some open questions and they are not going to be resolved by looking at the pictures of your day. Then we will never know.

(Only kidding of course ).
Well, OMC, since it was dark and the skipper of the sailboat couldn't see the guests I had on board I'm certain he didn't change course to voyeur my guests (though I would not have blamed him!).

Had we had a bunch of guys on board I still would have passed the helm to Tina. As a matter of fact, I let several of the guests who wanted to drive take the helm as we cruised during daylight hours. I almost always do that, but make sure I'm right there watching as we cruise. Most of our guests on these cruises are non-boaters and enjoy a chance to take the wheel.

Certaines questions sont mieux laisser sans réponse à laisser l'esprit vagabonder où il pourrait !
__________________
Mike and Tina
Beachcomber 1995 Sea Ray 550 Sedan Bridge
GFC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2016, 09:11 PM   #145
Senior Member
 
foggysail's Avatar
 
City: Ashland
Country: United States
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 499
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
If there had been a collision, both skippers would be at fault.
YES, everyone has the responsibility to avoid situations that can lead to a collision.

One year I had just dropped sail (our old sailboat) outside Cuttyhunk harbor. So while motoring at about 1-2K getting the boat ready to enter the harbor some fool captain on another sailboat under sail almost rammed me in the midsection. Sure, as soon as I saw this Ahole I accelerated, changed course and screamed at the other boat who was about 20' from us. Their reply..."we are under sail, we have the right of way." Wifey had to grab me because I had full intention to give him a right of way across the back of his head.
foggysail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2016, 09:34 PM   #146
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 11,352
Quote:
Originally Posted by foggysail View Post
YES, everyone has the responsibility to avoid situations that can lead to a collision.

One year I had just dropped sail (our old sailboat) outside Cuttyhunk harbor. So while motoring at about 1-2K getting the boat ready to enter the harbor some fool captain on another sailboat under sail almost rammed me in the midsection. Sure, as soon as I saw this Ahole I accelerated, changed course and screamed at the other boat who was about 20' from us. Their reply..."we are under sail, we have the right of way." Wifey had to grab me because I had full intention to give him a right of way across the back of his head.
Wifey B: Guess he showed you. I'll bet in his mind that's what he's thinking with no grasp of the situation.

My hubby doesn't yell in such situations as he feels like it's just a waste of his voice, since the guy won't get it anyway. I might be known to sometimes yell.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2016, 10:37 PM   #147
Guru
 
hmason's Avatar
 
City: Westport, CT
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Magic
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 46 Europa
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,765
For a sailboat to be considered under power, the motor must be in gear. If he's sailing he might be running the motor to charge batteries. It can be hard to discern by looking at the boat. Another reason to pay attention and avoid a mishap based on misinformation or assumption.
__________________
Howard
Magic, 1996 Grand Banks Europa
Westport, CT and Stuart, FL
hmason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2016, 11:51 PM   #148
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,519
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldToby View Post
The man, visibly (and audibly) angry and upset, insisted over and over again that since his had been the car to the other driver's right, he had had the right of way, and the other driver was therefore at fault.
Well, what your Dad said was sort of right, but point of order here...just out of curiosity who was in the wrong there..? We give way to the right, but we drive on the left in right hand drive cars. Over there, you drive on the right with left hand drive cars. I always assumed your give way rule would therefore be opposite to ours, and you would give way to the left on a roundabout or uncontrolled intersection..?

Because, if I'm correct the guy was completely wrong in any case - aside from the smashed vehicle I mean.
Here it gets confusing, because the rules of the (seas) road say you give way to a vessel to your right, wherever you are in the world by international agreement, but not on your (land) roads I would have thought.
__________________
Pete
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2016, 12:11 AM   #149
Veteran Member
 
OldToby's Avatar
 
City: Hope, Idaho
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Mary Elyse
Vessel Model: 1964 Boston Whaler Eastport
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 31
We give way to the right at uncontrolled intersections too. I don't know about roundabouts: I learned roundabout protocol in Saudi Arabia, where one gives way to NO ONE.
OldToby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2016, 12:31 AM   #150
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,519
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldToby View Post
We give way to the right at uncontrolled intersections too. I don't know about roundabouts: I learned roundabout protocol in Saudi Arabia, where one gives way to NO NONE.
Well, if you are still driving, and still in the US, then you better learn, and fast.
__________________
Pete
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2016, 05:09 AM   #151
TF Site Team
 
Bay Pelican's Avatar
 
City: Chicago, IL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bay Pelican
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,657
150+ posts, an interesting topic. So far no one has mentioned the size of the boat which crossed in front of the OP. Every time I see a small boat at close quarters I am cautious as I find inn these small boats a greater lack of understanding of both the right of way concepts and the lack of maneuverabilty that larger boats have when compared to the under 25 footers. Obviously not true of all small boat operators but frequent enough that I have a concern and act defensively.
__________________
Marty
Bay Pelican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2016, 05:21 AM   #152
Guru
 
LaBomba's Avatar
 
City: Beaverton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Airswift
Vessel Model: Ontario Yachts Great Lakes 33
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 776
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bay Pelican View Post
150+ posts, an interesting topic. So far no one has mentioned the size of the boat which crossed in front of the OP. Every time I see a small boat at close quarters I am cautious as I find inn these small boats a greater lack of understanding of both the right of way concepts and the lack of maneuverabilty that larger boats have when compared to the under 25 footers. Obviously not true of all small boat operators but frequent enough that I have a concern and act defensively.
X2
We have a public boat launch on the channel from our marina to the lake and inevitably someone launches a 14+ ft boat right in front of us and backs right into the centre of channel while they "attempt" to start their engine. Very frustrating.
__________________
Allan & Ann
Airswift
LaBomba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2016, 06:02 AM   #153
Senior Member
 
City: Edmonds
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 174
I skipped to the end of these posts after reading three pages of them. There is one thing I hadn't seen mentioned. What if the sailboat skipper was a jerk? I read an article a year or so ago by a female sail boater who mentioned an early sailing experience. Her then-boyfriend took her sailing and when he saw a nearby powerboat he intentionally changed course in order to cut in front of the power boater. When the other boat changed direction, he then turned his sailboat in front of the new course to make the power boater change course again. He laughed and did it one more time and told her he enjoyed messing with power boaters. Some sail boaters can be jerks...

On the other hand, some power boaters can be jerks. On multiple occasions I have had to hail another boat on radio and/or change course when the other boat is on autopilot on a collision course with me and no one is at the helm keeping a lookout. That ain't good either.
Robster_in_edmonds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2016, 07:39 AM   #154
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,638
When "right of way" does not even come into the picture. But, survival does! LOL


October 2008, during a blustery day, the now deceased billionaire Tom Perkins was bringing his 289' super sail/motor boat/yacht The Maltese Falcon into SF Bay and under the GG Bridge.

There were over a hundred boats playing "pilot fish" during entry. I'd met Tom a couple years prior. Well before reaching Golden Gate Bridge we were traveling parallel and fairly close (50 to 75 yards) away from the Falcon's forward starboard quarter. Along with several other motor boats we were each keeping close proximities and well respecting each other's areas. SUDDENLY... Seemingly Out of Nowhere... a freaking sail boat (a 35'er??) under full sail, but not with full wind capture, and obvious also under power came bolting across from Falcon's port side at 45 degree angle to The Falcon's bow (very close to it) and heading directly into my and the other close proximity power boaters way of travel. All hell broke loose as we all maneuvered to miss collision with the sail boat. Needless to say... all we captains on the power boats did what we had to do and no collision occurred. However, it was a close call on many accounts during that very up-tight group of seconds.

Soon as possiable after the group of 30' to 45' power boats I was in formation with reformed good seas stances I took my opportunity to exit that area completely. Once free of constraints due to other boats I (for one of the very seldom times utilized) pushed our Tolly to WOT and headed at 90 degree angle to the formations in order to get completely out of the fray. Sure was/is nice to feel/see our Tolly step un n' go at some 22/23 knots. I only left her at that speed for matter of a minute or three.

Can say - I do not plan to ever again put myself, boat and crew in position such as that again by playing "pilot fish" to any other big boat coming to port.

Live and learn!
Art is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2016, 12:00 PM   #155
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 11,352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robster_in_edmonds View Post
What if the sailboat skipper was a jerk?
Another reason I avoid an accident but don't get into a confrontation. What if he's a drunk jerk with a loaded gun? Water rage. Not as common, fortunately, as road rage.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2016, 04:17 PM   #156
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmason View Post
For a sailboat to be considered under power, the motor must be in gear. If he's sailing he might be running the motor to charge batteries. It can be hard to discern by looking at the boat. Another reason to pay attention and avoid a mishap based on misinformation or assumption.
That might be open to legal interpretation.

"Remember that a sailboat running an engine, even if sails are up, is legally categorized as a powerboat. In a congested area it is best not to run the engine with sails still up, because captains of other boats may not be aware of your engine running and may assume you are operating under sailing rules."

This is from the USCGAUX. Doesn't say "engine running and in gear".

And this comes from Boat US:

"Sailing Vessel - Any vessel under sail alone. Remember, the engine only has to be on for a sailboat to be considered a powerboat."

I was always told if the engine is on/running in or out of gear, the sailboat becomes a power boat.

If you think about it, it makes sense.

Otherwise all a sailboat has to do is shift in and out of gear to go back and forth with its sails up from being a sail boat to a power boat.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2016, 04:31 PM   #157
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 14,861
Add in the "underway, making way" and "underway, not making way" concept and a running engine gives the sailing vessel ability to alter course (somewhat) at a moments notice.

I would agree that it is a power vessel, despite sails up if the engine is running. That is why the steaming cone is important, it leave little doubt.

Just in case the sailing vessel is running to charge batteries but incapable of going into gear.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2016, 04:48 PM   #158
Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 629
This thread reminds me of an incident (not quite an accident!!) we had in the Chesapeake a few years back. Proceeding North at about 7kt we encountered a boat of similar 50ft size. Despite us clearly being the stand on vessel, the other boat continued to cross directly across our bow at close quarters. We were forced to "slam on the brakes" to avoid collision.
The other boat justified his action by saying he was a fishing boat. After he passed we did notice 2 old guys in the stern with rods. So, the question is, is a boat fishing the same as a fishing boat under USCG rule??
As for sailboats I always give them a wide berth,because you just never know what they are about to do!! I also always do the same for commercial fishing boats, because it is hard to tell exactly where their nets or lines are. Both are especially true at night!!
As for this thread, I actually find the very fact that there is so much discussion about the reported event quite concerning. The OP was obviously in the wrong and should have been paying more attention.
Chrisjs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2016, 04:56 PM   #159
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 14,861
No, trolling, even with a commercial fishing vessel carries no special privilege...it is just another power vessel.

Most people are suprised a vessel towing is just another power vessel unless she declares restricted in the ability to maneuver.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2016, 06:43 PM   #160
Ted
Guru
 
Ted's Avatar
 
City: Campbell River
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Okisollo
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 579
Read the OP, the "sailboat" was showing the lights for a sailboat up to 23' oal
(approx. 24') running with engine on. It was showing green side light, it was not the
stand-on vessel. He avoided a collision, the "sailboat" should have never put him in
that position.

Ted
__________________

Ted is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012