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Old 09-12-2016, 12:01 PM   #81
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While never sure of course, I would bet anything that is definitely NOT was BandB meant. I am pretty sure that you probably know that as well.

FWIW, despite my 50 years of experience on the water, I am an amateur at best. I really do appreciate that professionals such as yourself know the rules and adhere to them. It makes the boating experience much safer for me.
I'm also willing to bet that is not what BandB was getting at as well. But I laugh at hearing "there is the book then there is real life". That book covers real life. There is not a situation you can get into that the Rules hasnt covered. I know this because it is my real life. I put food on the table and a roof over my family's head because I work on the water. These rules keep me from getting into a collision.

It doesnt take long to learn them, at least the main rules. Make time to learn them and what they mean to keep everyone on the watet safe.
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Old 09-12-2016, 12:11 PM   #82
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We used to go to the July 4th fireworks by boat. It was nice to be right under the shells. But we stopped, as it was just too dangerous. I don't drink, but have determined (using unscientific methods) that 100% of other boaters do.
Same here. Tacoma has a great fireworks and air show over the water. However, after the fireworks are over, Commencement Bay became just too dangerous. Too many boats being driven too fast by boaters who had been drinking all day. We quit doing it years ago.
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Old 09-12-2016, 12:15 PM   #83
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I'm also willing to bet that is not what BandB was getting at as well. But I laugh at hearing "there is the book then there is real life". That book covers real life. There is not a situation you can get into that the Rules hasnt covered. I know this because it is my real life. I put food on the table and a roof over my family's head because I work on the water. These rules keep me from getting into a collision.

It doesnt take long to learn them, at least the main rules. Make time to learn them and what they mean to keep everyone on the watet safe.
Complete big boat mentality.

I have been living with the rules since 1977 when I went through USCG Officer Candidate School.

The rules generally apply to 2 vessels. Often we are subjected to 3, 5 , 8 or more vessels at a time in the small boat on inland waters.

You can almost throw out the rules because they apply to 2 vessels and solely go with rule 2.... which is still the bottom line rule.

I have often said the rules were designed for ships/big commercial vessel ops...but there is nothing else all the way down to even rowboats...so we live with rules where all us little guys can stop in a couple boat lengths and not 3-5 miles.

Sorry, but I'll put my credentials up to anyone here and thinking the book and on the water is exactly the same...then I would have to say why have rule #2 and why make it #2 instead of at the end or in some apoendix?

I mostly a rule guy....but realistically....65 feet and under boats? No even close.
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Old 09-12-2016, 12:35 PM   #84
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If you want to make it a measuring contest, I'll put mine up as well....

Big boats deal with the same traffic small boats deal with. If following the rules is too hard then stay off the water. I have been on the water almost my entire life. I'm the only person in my family who sails for a living, so I also know a thing or 2 about rec boating. Reading this assures my line of thinking is a good line of thinking. When driving my truck or riding my motorcycle I assume other drivers are dumb and will do stupid things.... I'll keep that same mindset on the water.
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Old 09-12-2016, 12:41 PM   #85
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As I said......Just follow #2 and all will be well....
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Old 09-12-2016, 01:01 PM   #86
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As I said......Just follow #2 and all will be well....
Lol agreed
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Old 09-12-2016, 02:40 PM   #87
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It is much better to learn from our mistakes and the mistakes of others when they are not costly in life, limb, and damage to our boats. I appreciate that GFC brought this up.
Hasn't everyone here encountered a time they had to slam on their brakes on the highway, and they were very glad they had today's brakes and not those from 30 years ago, and they stopped in time to avoid an accident, but closer than they should have been to the car ahead? They failed to anticipate something but they did see it in time to avoid an accident.

When on the water we all depend on our own skills and knowledge but we also depend on others. Dhays made a mistake depending on another, but the other took evasive answer so no harm, no foul. There is no one here who can say they've never made a mistake on the water. Also, most of our mistakes are more grey than black and white. They're often "we did xyz and nothing bad happened but doing it over we should have done abc" or "I should have seen that boat a couple of minutes sooner than I did."
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Old 09-12-2016, 02:44 PM   #88
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Seriously? What would you have said? "You should have been more careful to keep me, the give way vessel, from hitting you?" That would be like honking at a pedestrian in a crosswalk who is crossing on a green as you run a red light.
I would have told him that he is showing the lights of a sailboat under power and therefore treated as a powerboat. I'll leave it at that.
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Old 09-12-2016, 03:36 PM   #89
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I have seen too many times where boats turn in front of approaching vessels causing it to take immediate action to avoid a accident.
You mean like this one?
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Old 09-12-2016, 04:41 PM   #90
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You made my day! I have a strong vocabulary and it is an exceedingly rare and pleasant experience to come across a term that I am unfamiliar with. I have never heard the term "allision" and had no idea what it meant. Thanks!
Yup, I also had to google that term as well.
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Old 09-12-2016, 05:02 PM   #91
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Good grief! 89 responses! Thank you Mike and Tina for posting and responding. And thank the rest of you for chiming in. That's what this forum is for, and we all benefit.
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Old 09-12-2016, 06:08 PM   #92
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Come on.... His anchor light may have been on, but he was moving and was under sail. He was in violation of the rules by leaving the light on but that doesn't change the fact that he was under sail. The light also had no influence on the incident or the outcome. If anything, it made the boat more visible. FWIW, I have also used the flashlight on the sail trick at night, even though it tends to trash our own night vision...
. The mast head light is irrelevant, the OP knew there was a sailing sailboat present and was not misled. Continuing observation of the sailboat and timely appropriate action to avoid danger is a live issue. 5 blasts would have been a good first step to defusing the developing situation.
But whatever view you take, the analysis from a divergent range of points of view is helpful to us all.
And, vision need not worsen with age, if you get your cataracts done. Highly recommended.
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Old 09-12-2016, 06:13 PM   #93
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Knowing the rules wont keep people safe? I've heard it all now. To hell with rules, I'll remember that next time I'm northbound in the Mississippi River on a loaded tanker!
I didn't say that. In fact, I said "There's a balance. I consider rules important."

Being on a tanker is much different that what the OP was describing and what the recreational boater faces. Now, my reaction to tankers, cargo liners, and cruise boats is to make it as easy as possible for them. If any question I speak to them, but I always give way to them, simply because I know my boat is far more maneuverable than their vessel. I know you have great experience on a tanker, but the OP's situation was just a simple and common recreational situation. I've faced hundreds of recreational boats not following regs or rules and I do what is necessary to avoid accidents. I'm not the one to teach them the rules. I'm more of the attitude of "ok, you're wrong, but go ahead and I'll make sure I don't hit you." When I'm facing a commercial ship, I assume they know the rules and if I sound the horn, they'll know what that means. The majority of recreational vessels do not have a mastery of all the rules.
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Old 09-12-2016, 06:18 PM   #94
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well sailors...we have a couple people that think it's OK to run your motor, keep the sails up and do whatever you want. Have at it....


wonder what's next....
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Old 09-12-2016, 06:19 PM   #95
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You made my day! I have a strong vocabulary and it is an exceedingly rare and pleasant experience to come across a term that I am unfamiliar with. I have never heard the term "allision" and had no idea what it meant. Thanks!
Reading CG and NTSB reports brought it into our vocabularies. We had never used it before seeing it there. However, it makes sense to have a separate term for those accidents.
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Old 09-12-2016, 06:26 PM   #96
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I remember when the USCG started being adamant about using the term allision with boats striking bridges.


In the field we were "what the heck is the difference?"...but I guess the Marine Safety Offices and the lawyers thought it was the term to use...obviously it had ramafications for maritime hearings and fault finding..
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Old 09-12-2016, 06:28 PM   #97
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well sailors...we have a couple people that think it's OK to run your motor, keep the sails up and do whatever you want. Have at it....


wonder what's next....
What's next. Same as before. If you're out on the water enough, you'll see everything. A lot of what you'll see will make no sense. Some will be total stupidity.

Oh, I thought the sailor rule was sailboats always rule. Now, I know the majority don't feel that way but on the water you will see many who do and think it's your job to avoid them, whatever they do.

There is a worse group though PWC's. I've seen them cut right in front of cargo ships, apparently not grasping that if they did fall or stop, there is no way the ship could stop. I've had them come within less than 10' of my stern wanting to get a huge wake to jump and seen them get airborne and return to the water no longer on the PWC.

Everywhere we boat has different challenges. On the lake the disparity in speeds led to issues. You had a lot of 60 mph bass boats who were in huge hurries to get to the next fishing hole.

You're right about rules for 2 boats. A busy lake on a Sunday with thousands of boats, there are no rules.
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Old 09-12-2016, 06:31 PM   #98
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I remember when the USCG started being adamant about using the term allision with boats striking bridges.


In the field we were "what the heck is the difference?"...but I guess the Marine Safety Offices and the lawyers thought it was the term to use...obviously it had ramafications for maritime hearings and fault finding..
I think the key in hearings and fault findings is that in an allision it's easy to assign fault and only in the rarest of cases can it be assigned to anyone other than the boat underway. Boat runs into bridge that has been there for 30 years and not moved, going to be very difficult to blame the bridge.
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Old 09-12-2016, 06:34 PM   #99
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Well this certainly has turned into an interesting thread. I expected it to run to about 10-15 posts and here we are over 90 posts. Wow.

I have learned several things from this thread:
--many people on TF are much more knowledgeable about COLREGS than I. Will I study them more? Probably, but not to the extent that many of you have done.
--when you see a 'target' at night, don't lose sight of it and expect it to do the worst possible thing.
--if you screw up on TF and post about it, expect to get your arse cleaned out by the Roto Rooter man.

Seriously, I have been a boater for almost 65 years of my near-70, but I admit there was a gap in the middle of all that as I went to school, joined the USAF for 7 years, raised a family, etc. I've now owned a boat consistently for over 35 years. During that time I've only been involved in one major mishap and that's when I was hit by a drunk boater and my boat was totaled.

I would say that, all things considered, I'm a VERY safe boater. When I'm on or around the boat, safety is my number one rule. Thanks to all of you for your comments. Some were kind, some not so kind, but they all were appreciated.
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Old 09-12-2016, 06:43 PM   #100
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Most operators have enough of a sixth sense that even when everything is going wrong...disaster is averted before the bottom line.


You averted an accident...sooooo.... you probably are very safe despite the things you pointed out that you might have done differently.


To even recognize those things says a lot.


Like I posted...a close call but a minor one...not like you grazed the side of a supertanker.


Learn, move on and enjoy!


Too many worry warts give me a headache....

.... and I am the cautious one most of the time.
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