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Old 02-07-2009, 01:34 PM   #21
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RE: The Salmon Troller WHITE CLOUD

Outlaw,

*** I wouldn't have anything to do with Dock Street Brokerage unless they have changed hands recently. See Lynn Riester - Seattle surveyer.

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Old 02-07-2009, 02:44 PM   #22
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RE: The Salmon Troller WHITE CLOUD

Ironwood. That makes since. It's even painted and trimmed up to the anchor pulpit. Good eye Rick
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Old 02-07-2009, 03:37 PM   #23
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RE: The Salmon Troller WHITE CLOUD

"Good eye ..."

Nah, I just have a lot of sawdust in my closet from living and working on too many wooden boats in the PNW.

Look at any wooden troller in the region and you will see that distinctive*swoop of dark painted ironbark on the bow. There is usually another section midship or near the aft pit under the gurdies where the gear comes onboard. The*cannonballs really whack the planking.
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Old 02-07-2009, 07:32 PM   #24
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RE: The Salmon Troller WHITE CLOUD

born, no, don't know what you are saying. there probably is alot of white clouds out there. this was and still is sorta a ketch turned salmon troller built in 1928, builder unknown.

Rick, i probably do not have all the experience you have working on old wood boats but i do know a thing about boats, haveing grown up for awhile arount fishermen and their boats in old tacoma and sewing nets when i was 6 yrs old. i have seen enough about boats to say yes to your ?. i also have a few years working on boats in Florida so yes and since i have been around wood and lumber all my life yes i do know athing or two about things. i know about ironwood and yes in the picure there look like something was going on. when i look at it it looked ok. i just haven't gotton inside the boat yet to see if anyrthing is going on with the stem, which there could be but i doubt it. that hull on the outside just looks a little tired, i would be too if i was born in 1928.lol.

i have never used dock street brokers so i do not know about them. they just haven' gotten back to me yet, so i will have to go see em and get on the boat to look to see if this is really what i want. getting a name of someone to survey a boat for me was a nice thing to do. if i get really serious about this at least i have a name in which i will check up on her and a good mechanic. even though i have also worked on diesels only in trucks, not marine, so if ya all know a good one that too would be nice. again, thanks all for your comments and i don't want this to become a bad thing. we all have oppinons about things and i just wanted to here what you all think. thanks

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Old 02-07-2009, 09:09 PM   #25
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RE: The Salmon Troller WHITE CLOUD

Outlaw - Welcome to the show. Just remember, you asked. Now, what other vessels are you considering that we can tear into?
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Old 02-07-2009, 09:29 PM   #26
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RE: The Salmon Troller WHITE CLOUD

>

Outlaw, there was absolutely nothing wrong with your post about. This is what this forum is about.

It will not become a "bad thing"!!!
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Old 02-07-2009, 10:00 PM   #27
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RE: The Salmon Troller WHITE CLOUD

you guys are a trip. i think i like you all. i have no problem getting slamed. if i ask and want your oppion i know what i'll get. brutal.lol. all oppions are welcome here. this is the only boat i am thinking about. there was another but i talked to the broker about it up in canada and the price was right and a good boat builder that built it, but the boat hat way too much wrong with it and it would of been to hard to bring it to seattle with just an engine and no radar or anything so i passed. so right now i am still thinking about this boat. yep, those lines of an old boat have got me. but this is the style that i like. the house, well thats a different story. don't like the looks of it that well but i think i can do something with it. anyways, if i get a chance to go see dock street brokers this week, well we'll see. thanks guys, your all way too funny, that's a good thing.

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Old 02-08-2009, 05:41 AM   #28
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RE: The Salmon Troller WHITE CLOUD

If you get into a restoration, here is a great resource I used a lot during mine:
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com
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Old 02-08-2009, 08:14 AM   #29
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The Salmon Troller WHITE CLOUD

I am not taking sides here Rick. The "brokerage" in question is not a participant on this forum and is not a personal entity. Yes, Somebody did "slam" them...as you say. But that is of no consequence to this forum and that is ultimately the scope of my moderation. WIth all that said, maybe Willy should provide us the reason for his opinion of that brokerage, which could surely help the OP of this thread. You can also provide us the reason why you think that brokerage is so reputable. Both of your opinions could be helpful to the OP of this thread(aka Outlaw).


-- Edited by Baker at 11:14, 2009-02-08
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Old 02-08-2009, 11:08 AM   #30
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RE: The Salmon Troller WHITE CLOUD

JB, thanks. yes, i would very much like to hear what both partys have to say about dock street, since i have never done business with then. why are they bad and why are they good. give me points on both sides, so i know what i'll be dealing with and if i deal with them, i will be able to come back here and give you all the true factor's if they are good or not.

thanks

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Old 02-08-2009, 11:22 AM   #31
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RE: The Salmon Troller WHITE CLOUD

Outlaw, are they the listing broker?
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Old 02-08-2009, 01:05 PM   #32
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RE: The Salmon Troller WHITE CLOUD

For me the moderator NOT stepping in and moderating every post is a positive. Several other forums are so closely moderated, sometimes one sidedly, that I lose interest in trying to post.

I believe that you need to be an adult to be on this forum. By that, I mean that not everything everyone says is going to please everyone. Some people have opinions which are unpopular. Some people even say things that are rude, crude and socially unacceptable. That kind of talk happens everyday everywhere. Would you advocate a moderator in each bar/park/workplace?

I think that most of us automatically recognize who said it and either ignore it or post a comment back. If the moderator were constantly sanitizing each thread we would gradually become a bunch of "little Bakers", because the only ones who would stay and converse would be those who believe the same things he does. That's what happens with heavily moderated forums. Seldom is there a healthy debate because the favorite son gets his say and the outsider gets his posts stricken.

Worse than strictly moderated forums are those with moderators who aren't man enough to even admit they are moderating your posts. Every post you send is delayed because the subject line matches a "filter". What pansy a**ed crap. The favorites get 2 or 3 posts immediately and the opposing sides post appears several hours or a day later.

Just my opinion, yours may vary.

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Old 02-08-2009, 04:05 PM   #33
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RE: The Salmon Troller WHITE CLOUD

Rick,

*** I slamed you because you ranted at me and called one of our new members stupid.
*** You said " I don't want to sound rude or anything" and then you refered to the iron bark as a " patch " but in that reguard you probably were quoting. Then you said the iron bark is " as fundamental to older wooded workboats as a rudder " with the obvious implication that if Outlaw knew what a rudder is* .. he should know what iron bark on wood boats is for. Furthermore iron bark*( as discussed ) obviously is nowhere near as fundamental*to a boat as a rudder! If you had not said " rude or anything " " patch " " ... fundamental ..." and just said " the*spot that looked like a patch*probably is*iron bark and*is usually there*to protect the hull " no offense could be taken.
*** As for Dock Street I knew someone who worked there and they had very bad things to say about*the owner so I wanted to give Outlaw a heads up so he*would have all his antennas out to protect himself as required. It's possible ( but not*likely ) what I heard was not even true so a simple heads up was all the situation called for.*If you recall I didn't accuse anybody of anything but I did imply that there is/was something wrong at Dock*Street. I also made it clear that my information or knowledge was*a bit dated. I did, however state my warning*too harshly and for that I apologize.****

Eric Henning
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Old 02-08-2009, 09:18 PM   #34
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RE: The Salmon Troller WHITE CLOUD

Geesh - for a while there I thought I was on the "trawlers and trawlering" list ! Easy goes it guys !

Outlaw - you will find that you will get a lot of conflicting answers to your posts and once you get through reading them you can sit back and decide which course of action is best for you.

When I first started the refit on our boat I posted a few questions on several boating lists (this one did not exist then) and got some very conflicting answers to them. Two in particular were the source of arguing back and forth between the list members for weeks and never did anyone take notice that I had an ex commercial fish boat, built like a brick s--t house rather than a pretty, lightly built, pleasure boat.

My advice to you in the pursuit of a commercial vessel is to get as much time as possible on board yourself and start at the bow and take a good look at everything, under, inside and alongside and only then will YOU have a firm idea of what you are looking at. I do not mean that you should skip having a good surveyor look at the boat but also have a good look yourself so you know what the surveyor is talking about and what you are getting yourself into.

Which ever way you go, good luck on your project, Old Fishboat and I have been down this path so we have definately had some experience (s)

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Old 02-08-2009, 09:34 PM   #35
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RE: The Salmon Troller WHITE CLOUD

hey oldfishboat.wonder when you were going to chime in. thanks. all your ?'s are totaly right on.i don't know a thing about the boat , well just a little. haveing a prob getting to talk to dock street. they have a listing on the boat on their web. thats all i know. i just saw the pic's of the new house going on. a pic of the old house. the boat was built in 1928 as a ketch motor sailor then turned into a salmon troller. there are no fishing #'s on the boat. it is rigged for trolling. the chain stay looks like they are orig and in place, who knows. the deck is covered with something. of what, who knows. everything is who knows. the hull looks ok, nothing protruding, just tired looking. whats inside, again, who knows. untill i can talk to someone at dock street and go aboard and get inside and look for my self, again, who knows. in the back there looks like a lazzeret with alot of stuff in it. the forward hatch, i pulled up and look in side as good as i could was dry and open. was dark in there so hard to see. the engone is a perkins with low hrs. can't really tell with out a mag what the house is made of or the bulwarts. looks like 1/8 steel plate. so there for the moment thats all i know. as soon as i can get aboard and talk with dock street i know nothing. if i see that it is in pretty good shape and i decide to go further with this then i will call in a survayer an a good diesel man. take it for a spin around the block, do a haul out. offer a bid and go from there.
this has been a great show on here. so everyone, lets get along and be happy. man life is way to short to ruffle feathers. i know you are all there not wanting to see me make a big mistake and i thank you all for that. your oppinons are of great value. i know lots of things but sometime as you all know, one can get carried away and lose their thinking. i haven't done that yet, thank God. will let you all know when i find out myself what will happen next. thaks all.

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Old 02-08-2009, 09:49 PM   #36
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RE: The Salmon Troller WHITE CLOUD

I've just about had it with all this bickering! Keep it up and you won't have SeaHorse ll to kick around anymore....<grin>
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Old 02-09-2009, 02:47 AM   #37
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The Salmon Troller WHITE CLOUD

Outlaw---

I don't know anything about the troller White Cloud or the Dock Street brokerage so I can't add to the controversy and bickering*swirling around them.* I can say that in the past ten years of trawlering in the PNW I have seen a number of outstanding troller/seiner/longliner conversions, both wood and glass.* So if you have the wherewithall to take on a project like this, or buy an existing conversion, they can be very nice boats indeed.

Wood is every bit as good a boatbuilding material as glass, aluminum, or steel.* All four materials rerquire different construction, maintenance, and repair techniques, but I don't believe that one is superior to the other as a blanket statement.* Anyone who doubts the longevity, maintainability, or repairability of wood*has only to visit the Grand Banks Owners forum to see that wood boats that were well made to begin with can give every bit as long a service life as glass or metal boats.* But I suspect you know this already.

The one thing I would suggest investigating as you pursue the acquisition of an older wood*"fishboat" is the question of insurance.* While I don't know if the practice has spread to all marinas in the Puget Sound area yet, proof of insurance has become a requirement for acquiring or retaining a slip at many of them, including Squalicum Marina in Bellingham where we keep our boat.* No insurance, no slip.* Not a problem for a newer or glass boat, but it can be a challenge for an older wood boat.

Several years ago the owner of an immaculately maintained 1940s, 36-foot, double-ended salmon troller was forced to leave our marina because he could not obtain insurance, or at least not at a price he was willing to pay.* He moved the boat to a private dock in a waterfront community north of Bellingham where exposure to the winds and*weather took quite a toll on the boat.* "Donna," was gone from our marina for two years*until last year, when she reappeared.* I was telling the owner how nice it was to see" Donna" back and he said he was finally able to obtain the required insurance and return to the protection of the marina.

If you plan to keep your boat where having a specific type of insurance coverage is not a requirement then it's not an issue for you.* But if you are intending to keep the boat in a marina then the insurance question is something you might want to have answered sooner rather than later.

Finally, others have talked about the importance of getting good hull and engine surveys.* Good advice but make sure you get a surveyor who REALLY knows wood boats.**There are some great surveyors in the Puget Sound area but many of them--- perhaps even most of them--- deal almost exclusively with fiberglass boats.* This makes sense since that's about all most surveyors encounter these days.* So take the time to determine if a surveyor who's recommended or who you hear about really understands the characteristics of wood, how it's affected by time, neglect, etc.

Good luck with your search and remember, boating is supposed to be fun.


(currently in Xiamen, China, at the other end of the bridge from the Nordhavn plant)

-- Edited by Marin at 03:50, 2009-02-09
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Old 02-09-2009, 06:38 AM   #38
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RE: The Salmon Troller WHITE CLOUD

Outlaw:* At Van Isle Marina in Sideny BC there is an outstanding old wooden 46 fisheries boat for sale. Dock D Slip 411. Perfect seaboat for the PNW. It is in good condition with all the stuff you'd like + more. 6-71, hydraulic dinghy hoists and anchor drive, Dickenson stove and it floats and runs to boot! Paint is good fro a season or more. I'd say $30-40 K and its yours. Call Greg Andrew at Van Isle for details.
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Old 02-09-2009, 08:29 AM   #39
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RE: The Salmon Troller WHITE CLOUD

thanks guys. yeah, the insurance thing, almost left that one out. whoops, you are right that could be a prob. will check in to it.

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Old 02-09-2009, 11:29 AM   #40
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RE: The Salmon Troller WHITE CLOUD

Outlaw - if you go ahead with purchasing an ex commercial wood boat (or any hull material for that matter) you might want to look at the Westcoast Work Boat Assoc.. We have been able to set up reduced rate insurance for our boats through a BC firm that are not all that bad. We do not have Penta insured as a "boat" at the moment as she on the hard in the back yard and covered with a rider on the house insurance but I will be getting her insured before re launch.

www.wwba.ca

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