Safety and Systems Monitoring

[AusCan]

Diesel engines produce on average about 5% of the carbon monoxide of a equivalent sized gasoline engine, but can produce much more if air intake is restricted similar operational upset.

 

[psneeld]

Try and find carbon monoxide fatalities related to diesel engines.

This has been debated before on boating forums and I have never seen reliaable statistics showing even one death even though a tremendously remote possibility.

I would he interested in finally putting the debate to bed one way or another.

 

[Sabre602]

Try and find carbon monoxide fatalities related to diesel engines.

This has been debated before on boating forums and I have never seen reliaable statistics showing even one death even though a tremendously remote possibility.

I would he interested in finally putting the debate to bed one way or another.

No idea. I can, however, tell you that I have seen a lot of CO poisoning in the Emergency Department (where I work) due to kerosene heaters, diesel heaters, charcoal grills, gas heaters, and other hydrocarbon-fueled stoves and heaters used indoors.

I worked aboard a 50-foot trawler in the Galapagos Islands in the 80s. We had a single Cat diesel. During one particularly lively passage the exhaust manifold came loose. Everyone on the boat got horrible headaches and started puking. As we were 600 miles at sea there was no way to verify our blood carboxyhemoglobin levels (and no one died), but it was certainly CO poisoning.

 

[psneeld]

I doubt it was CO poisoning, fumes and particulates have been clearly documented to produce those symptoms too.

If suspected, then foolish not to augment with fresh air. Which would help with CO poisoning but not from fumes and particulates if irritating.

The lack of finding ANY evidence seems to confirm the consensus that a reasonably well working diesel would not cause CO poisoning in normal boat usage. All your sources mentioned are not diesel engines are are often attributed to CO poisoning. If diesels were such a danger, there would be plenty of internet evidence.

How about some, even minimal proof, of what appears to be another boating myth or one so close to myth that you have a greater chance of death by metetorite.

Find decent proof and I will retract everything and acknowledge the problem.

 

[Sabre602]

I doubt it was CO poisoning, fumes and particulates have been clearly documented to produce those symptoms too.

If suspected, then foolish not to augment with fresh air. Which would help with CO poisoning but not from fumes and particulates if irritating.

The lack of finding ANY evidence seems to confirm the consensus that a reasonably well working diesel would not cause CO poisoning in normal boat usage. All your sources mentioned are not diesel engines are are often attributed to CO poisoning. If diesels were such a danger, there would be plenty of internet evidence.

How about some, even minimal proof, of what appears to be another boating myth or one so close to myth that you have a greater chance of death by metetorite.

Find decent proof and I will retract everything and acknowledge the problem.

I'm not sure why you have such a confrontational attitude. I have no need to prove anything, but am merely sharing information. There is no ego attachment nor do I have a dog in this fight.

The statement that diesel combustion does not create carbon monoxide is not only false, it's ludicrous and potentially harmful. Burning hydrocarbons other than in a theoretical state of complete combustion MUST create carbon monoxide. It's high school chemistry.

Now, as to whether or not people actually do experience significant exposure to carbon monoxide on diesel-powered vessels is an entirely separate issue. Yes, the nature of compression ignition internal combustion engines means higher rates of combustion; the ABYC is clear about risk assigned to gasoline versus diesel engines. Both my diesel engine and my diesel range are properly installed and in good working order, and the CO monitor sits in silent vigil. If I had a diesel forced-air furnace it would be the same case. Hell, if I had twin Crusaders burning high-test gasoline it would be the same, too.

Until something breaks.

It is foolish to believe and irresponsible to suggest to others that there is no carbon monoxide being generated by the burning of diesel. And if you truly think that there's absolutely no risk of that gas ever sneaking out, by all means omit the detector. Omit your bilge pump, too, since it's almost 100% guaranteed that your boat will never suffer emergency flooding. Almost.

As to the exposure that my captain, crew and passengers suffered, you have no idea what was happening, so why on earth would you suggest that you know what DIDN'T happen to us?

As I say, I have no ego fragility about this stuff...it's basic science and working with victims of hazardous gas exposures has been part of my professional life for decades. But if you feel that you must have the last word, please, go right ahead....

Over and out.

 

[twistedtree]

CO is the result of oxygen-starved combustion. CO2 is the theoretical product of combustion, not CO.

But you are correct that CO does exist in diesel exhaust because combustion isn't perfect. But diesel combustion is unique compared to a gas engine, diesel furnace or stove, etc. because it is compression ignition, and as a result is always an oxygen rich environment. The result is very low levels of CO, especially when compared to other forms of burning hydrocarbons.

There is a good Wiki article on diesel exhaust and it cites the CO content as 100-500 ppm. The OSHA has a paper on CO poisoning and the allowable continuous workplace concentration is 50 ppm.

So if you were in a small room with an engine exhausting directly into the room, you would end up over the limit. If you just have an exhaust leak into the space, it's very unlikely you would come anywhere near the limit.

One good example to consider is that mine equipment is diesel, and it's diesel because of the very low CO output. And that exhaust is released directly into the mine shaft space.

 

[psneeld]

Yes have CO sensors, crew education on CO, good maintenance, etc....

Sorta like many things on a boat.

Of all the fears to have on a diesel boat, my expeience and training allows me with proper risk management to place CO poisoning fron engines/gensets wayyyyyy down the list.

People that cant research the crap out of every boating danger need realistic input so they can be safe but enjoy without fears. Thus ABYC and its conservative recommendstions to stay safe.