To Run or Not to Run the Generator

[markpierce]

I've no genset. But use your genset when needed but consider your neighbors' mental health.

 

[Bay Pelican]

Jim

Depending on what else you have on your pilot house roof of your Krogen 42 you can put two or three 140 watt solar panels up there and they will disappear from sight. Leave room however to access the name boards, running lights, and the forestay.

 

[Wxx3]

Jim

Depending on what else you have on your pilot house roof of your Krogen 42 you can put two or three 140 watt solar panels up there and they will disappear from sight. Leave room however to access the name boards, running lights, and the forestay.

I did it for $500.
Four 110 w panels each.
Two 30amp controllers.

They fit by raising them about 2"

They are perfect for topping up the batteries and leaving the boat for long periods of time.

Also, even now, at 52°N , 09:00 the boat is facing north, and obviously the sun is south about 20° above the horizon and the panels are putting out 1.5 amps.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I'm surprised that no one has commented on the noise made by a sailor's Honda 2K gas generator buzzing away on his foredeck for hours into the night. Frankly, that noise can drive me nuts.

Or on the docks with a big chain and lock so no one can walk off with it!!

 

[FlyWright]

I just replaced an electric stove with propane. I am almost finished installing 3-150 watt semi-flexible solar panels on the bimini. If anchored more than 24 hrs I had to run the genset to charge batteries and run the stove. I may be able to go a week without running the genset in the summer if conditions are good. My Kohler is pretty quiet in its sound sheild and sound proofed ER. I just like not running the genset.

Dave, I'll be very interested in your solar project. I hope you write it up when you're done. The bimini seems like a natural place for the flexible panels. They've been improving in efficiency while dropping in price. I'm also interested in cable sizing for the long runs to the ER.

Without a generator, there is no question.

Mark, when you don't have a choice, there's no decision to make. I'll take options any day. I like a Plan A, a Plan B and then the option for a possible Plan C. When it comes to living on the hook for a couple of weeks, options are a very good thing!

 

[Art]

Our Tolly is full electric (except canister BBQ).

When on the hook we run gen at 50 to 70 percent load from 45 min to 1.25 hrs in morn and eve... depending on needs. That = 2 hrs per day avg at approx. .75 gal per hr. Which = 1.5 gals at $5 per gal = 7.50 per day x 7 days = $52.50 for a full week aboard boat with hot-water, charged house-bank batts, charged computers, stove/oven cooking, coffee, cooled fridge. We never need AC.

$7.50 per day... for only a $52.50 cost for full week aboard with all amenities operational = Really Satisfied Pleasure Boaters!

 

[Marin]

Greetings,
Mr. 11. Nope, never burned the old oil. Use a recycling center. Let THEM deal with the oil in whatever fashion they choose.

We change the oil in our Onan MDJE 7.5 kw once a year. I've not done the math but that's probably well under 100 hours. We only use the generator on days we don't run the main engines and an hour a day is sufficient to heat water for the whole day and then some and throw a charge back in the batteries. It's probably less than 50 hours a hear if that.

But once a year is easy to remember and in the overall scheme of things lube oil and filters for the generator and main engines are free. I have yet to have an engine specialist-- automotive, aviation,nor marine-- tell me that fresh oil is bad for an engine.

Like RTF we dump the old oil in the port's recycle tanks. I have had every marine engine specialist I've talked to about this say that dumping used lube oil in our boat's fuel is a really bad idea, particularly with the engines we have, so we don't do this. Nor have we ever met anyone in our harbor who does.

Speaking of noisy portable gas generators on docks (I know there are newer ones that aren't noisy) some years ago a boater insisted on running his loud, screaming Honda on the dock next to his boat in a marine park. He ran it all day despite pleas from the other boaters to turn it off. He was actually quie rude about it, loudly cursing anyone who asked him to shut it down for awhile.

Unfortunately there were no park rangers on the island that day. Finally one boater had had enough, and as he walked by the generator he kicked it off the dock into the water. He got a huge round of cheers and applause from every boat on the dock and those on the buoys nearby.

 

[sunchaser]

Like RTF we dump the old oil in the port's recycle tanks. I have had every marine engine specialist I've talked to about this say that dumping used lube oil in our boat's fuel is a really bad idea, particularly with the engines we have, so we don't do this. Nor have we ever met anyone in our harbor who did.

But Marin you could save $3 dollars per year assuming the old oil has no deleterious side effects.

For large yachts running a 65 KW genset 24/7 does indeed pose some engine oil disposal issues, and reuse remedies.

Years ago when 2cycle Saabs were popular I filled up my Volvo at a gas station. The attendant helpfully put a quart of 2 cycle oil in my gas tank. For a week thereafter there were no mosquitoes around my college dorm.

 

[fryedaze]

Dave, I'll be very interested in your solar project. I hope you write it up when you're done. The bimini seems like a natural place for the flexible panels. They've been improving in efficiency while dropping in price. I'm also interested in cable sizing for the long runs to the ER.

I was going to wait until I was done to post but maybe I will start a thread and add as it moves along. That way I can tap the knowledge of the group. We are almost done. The last steps are installing the panels and wiring the MC4 connectors on the bimini. The canvas work is done and the controller and all other wiring is in.

 

[Codger2]

I have yet to have an engine specialist-- automotive, aviation,nor marine-- tell me that fresh oil is bad for an engine.
.

I can't say that it is good for an engine and back it up with any evidence but I can say it certainly has a positive effect on me!

 

[cardude01]

I was going to wait until I was done to post but maybe I will start a thread and add as it moves along. That way I can tap the knowledge of the group. We are almost done. The last steps are installing the panels and wiring the MC4 connectors on the bimini. The canvas work is done and the controller and all other wiring is in.

I'm also interested in an inverter/solar install. My genny is not as quiet as I would like even though it's in a sound box. The lack of a real engine room is the problem I think-- it's mounted in an area just below the pilothouse.

Not sure I can handle the install, and not sure I have room for all the cables.

If I need to store the inflatable dingy on the top of the pilothouse during rough passages will that damage the panels?

 

[fryedaze]

I can't say that it is good for an engine and back it up with any evidence but I can say it certainly has a positive effect on me!

I change every 200 hrs or every season what ever comes first. I also change my tranny fluid each time I change the engine oil
http://www.trawlerforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

 

[fryedaze]

I'm also interested in an inverter/solar install. My genny is not as quiet as I would like even though it's in a sound box. The lack of a real engine room is the problem I think-- it's mounted in an area just below the pilothouse.

Not sure I can handle the install, and not sure I have room for all the cables.

If I need to store the inflatable dingy on the top of the pilothouse during rough passages will that damage the panels?

You cant walk on the semi-flexible panels I purchased. I wouldnt chance having something on top of them that could scratch them. They do make panels you can walk on.

 

[MYTraveler]

We just consume too much electricity to get by without shorepower or a genset. So, if we are away from the dock, genset is running. Underway, the four engine room blowers plus electronics and inverting to run two and one half refrigerators (one is dorm room sized for drinks) and a 9 cf chest freezer is more than my alternators can produce. Not to mention that on fishing trips we are also running a 110v jacuzzi sized bait pump and a 600 pound per day ice maker. Even at anchor, we have most of those loads. So from my perspective, it is unavoidable. The good news is that it is so quiet, I sometimes worry about forgetting to shut it off. And, I am convinced that I will get at least 20,000 hours from each (there are two, Onan 17kw eQd's). That is almost 5 years of continuous use. My greatest desire would be to have enough time away from the dock to need to replace.

 

[Spottsville]

I just replaced an electric stove with propane. I am almost finished installing 3-150 watt semi-flexible solar panels on the bimini. If anchored more than 24 hrs I had to run the genset to charge batteries and run the stove. I may be able to go a week without running the genset in the summer if conditions are good. My Kohler is pretty quiet in its sound sheild and sound proofed ER. I just like not running the genset.

I would like to know more about you Bimini Solar panels. To me that application for solar panels just makes sense!

Norm

 

[Capt.Bill11]

But Marin you could save $3 dollars per year assuming the old oil has no deleterious side effects.

For large yachts running a 65 KW genset 24/7 does indeed pose some engine oil disposal issues, and reuse remedies.

Years ago when 2cycle Saabs were popular I filled up my Volvo at a gas station. The attendant helpfully put a quart of 2 cycle oil in my gas tank. For a week thereafter there were no mosquitoes around my college dorm.

Apparently oil is very, very cheap where you live.

But poop poop the idea all you wish. But most major engine manufactures address the issue and seem to allow it. I would think if it was going to cause major issues it would be absolutely disallowed.

Check out the first paragraph on page two under "Introduction":

https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/product_lit/americas_brochures/LT32587.pdf


As to its effects on a Ford Lehman, all I can say is something seems to happen to them when they get to the West coast. Apparently they get very sensitive and finicky. And you can't add a little used oil to their fuel once in a while nor can you any longer run them near their recommended max rpm without their committing seppuku.

 

[Marin]

Great. I love this shade-tree-mechanic idea of putting dirty, contaminated oil into the clean fuel I'm going to run my engine on. Particularly when it's going to be going through a jerk injection pump with very tight tolerances and is dependent upon real clean fuel for lubrication with minium wear.

This is right up at the very top of my list of Really Dumb Ideas. Probably fighting for first place with the one about adding Marvel Mystery Oil to fuel.

PS--- For grins I just ran this notion of putting used motor oil in the fuel that's going to be run through an engine to a friend who for decades until his recent retirement was the head of the engineering department of one of the marine industry's most prestigious powerplant and generator suppliers. I suspect he's still laughing.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

PS--- For grins I just ran this notion of putting used motor oil in the fuel that's going to be run through an engine to a friend who for decades until his recent retirement was the head of the engineering department of one of the marine industry's most prestigious powerplant and generator suppliers. I suspect he's still laughing.

So when he stops laughing ask him why engine manufactures allow it and even sell systems to do it if it's such a laughable idea.

Do you think the folks at Cummins and CAT, etc. are shade tree mechanics?

Do you think the oil mixed with the diesel fuel magically bypasses your fuel filters before to goes through your engine?

Do you really think adding oil to your fuel at, in you case I believe, ratio of 5 gallons to 300 gallons of fuel per side for less than 2% oil to fuel is going to kill your Lehman?

Actually never mind, you've made it clear what you think. Carry on.

 

[Marin]

I have read countless engine manuals over the years. Vehicles, outboards, marine diesels, reciprocating airplane engines from Lycoming, Continental, and Pratt & Whitney. Lawn mowers, chain saws, generators.

And with the exception of the two stroke engines that instruct one to mix CLEAN 2-stroke oil into the fuel, not ONE of these manuals ever said "After you have drained the crankcase of the old, contaminated lube oil please pour it into your fuel tank so your engine can run on it and you can save a couple of bucks."

Whether it kills the Lehman or not, it sure isn't going to help it. It will also clog up the fuel filters faster so one might negate the savings in fuel cost by the cost of more frequent filter changes.

So when he stops laughing ask him why engine manufactures allow it and even sell systems to do it if it's such a laughable idea.

Oh, he knows they do and mentioned such in our phone call. But he said that this doesn't make it a good idea. It's to accomodate people-- mostly big companies according to him-- who for whatever reason are trying everything they can to cut costs. That's one way to do it.

So your go through filters faster and you accelerate some of your maintenance costs, but the savings look great on paper and the engine manufacturers are more than happy to accomdate their customers who buy bazilions of dollars woth of engine parts and support over the years. "Want to cycle your old lube oil through your engines? Hey, have at it. It just means we'll make more money off of you down the road."

So says he, anyway, and he was in the business a long, long time.

 

[Richard W]

Do you really think adding oil to your fuel at, in you case I believe, ratio of 5 gallons to 300 gallons of fuel per side for less than 2% oil to fuel is going to kill your Lehman?

Just curious ... synthetic vs conventional oil, plus all these oil additives not intended for combustion ... does not any of these affects the engine?

 

[Capt.Bill11]

Just curious ... synthetic vs conventional oil, plus all these oil additives not intended for combustion ... does not any of these affects the engine?

Apparently not or I would think it would be a reason to void the warranty. Plus oils does commonly get into the combustion chamber on older engines.

You have to remember I'm not talking about adding used oil in mass quantities all the time. It's a very small amount once in a while that you prefiler to get the course stuff out. I only presented it as a way to recoop some of the money spent on the oil, a way to deal with it as opposed to storing it on board when cruising and as a excepted alternative to carting it off to the recycler. Especially if you put a lot of hours on your main engine and/or Genset.

Do it, don't do it, believe it, don't believe it, I don't care. But it is and has been done and engines dont seem to be dieing untimely deaths right and left because of it. Is it something you want to do with a modern common rail engine? I doubt it. But an old work horse like a Lehman? I can't really see nor seen the harm. And as far as doing so causing you to have to change you're fuel filters more often, now I'm the one laughing.

 

[BruceK]

It is great seeing people wanting to adopt solar. I did my own, the boat has not burned, the batteries love it, I run what I call the 12v "day fridge" on 180 watts of panel. It is another means of getting amps, the first cost is it, and you save by extending batt life. But unless you go in with lots of panel and batts it is not exclusive, I would not be without the genset, never going to run the mains voltage compressor (240) for the eutectic fridge and freezer without one.

 

[markpierce]

Mark, when you don't have a choice, there's no decision to make. I'll take options any day. I like a Plan A, a Plan B and then the option for a possible Plan C. When it comes to living on the hook for a couple of weeks, options are a very good thing!

Al, there is Option Z: running the electrical cord from your generator to the genset-absent Coot while "cuddled" to FlyWright. By the way, what is the exchange rate of gasoline (powering the generator) to IPA beer? One gallon for four beers?

 

[O C Diver]

Al, there is Option Z: running the electrical cord from your generator to the genset-absent Coot while "cuddled" to FlyWright. By the way, what is the exchange rate of gasoline (powering the generator) to IPA beer? One gallon for four beers?

Mark, it's funny you mention that. One of my electrical additions is a 30amp shore power female recepticle behind one of the small access doors on the inside wall of the back deck. I will likely only put a 20 amp breaker on the circuit. Have A couple of buddies with boats that lack generators. Thought it would be nice to share some ac when we get together. Pretty inexpensive addition if you're doing it yourself.

Ted

 

[sunchaser]

What Bill suggests is not new. Obviously how it is done is debatable. Think bio diesel fuel. For commercial fuel suppliers in the bio fuel game oil, cleaning before end use includes the use of centrifuges, not unlike an Alfa Laval system used on larger vessels. Used oil has a lot of debris that the centrifuge picks out. Once cleaned, used oil is used for all sorts of purposes, including ultimately destined for diesel fuel end users.

 

[Art]

I've decided to pour old-oil into the fuel tank of my 1967 Wildcat 430 cid / 360 hp engine at each oil change - NOT!

 

[Rustybarge]

I have read countless engine manuals over the years. Vehicles, outboards, marine diesels, reciprocating airplane engines from Lycoming, Continental, and Pratt & Whitney. Lawn mowers, chain saws, generators.

And with the exception of the two stroke engines that instruct one to mix CLEAN 2-stroke oil into the fuel, not ONE of these manuals ever said "After you have drained the crankcase of the old, contaminated lube oil please pour it into your fuel tank so your engine can run on it and you can save a couple of bucks."

Whether it kills the Lehman or not, it sure isn't going to help it. It will also clog up the fuel filters faster so one might negate the savings in fuel cost by the cost of more frequent filter changes.



Oh, he knows they do and mentioned such in our phone call. But he said that this doesn't make it a good idea. It's to accomodate people-- mostly big companies according to him-- who for whatever reason are trying everything they can to cut costs. That's one way to do it.

So your go through filters faster and you accelerate some of your maintenance costs, but the savings look great on paper and the engine manufacturers are more than happy to accomdate their customers who buy bazilions of dollars woth of engine parts and support over the years. "Want to cycle your old lube oil through your engines? Hey, have at it. It just means we'll make more money off of you down the road."

So says he, anyway, and he was in the business a long, long time.

I grew up on a farm and we used old burnt oil to lubricate the chain on our chainsaws, and indeed to mix with the petrol(gas) to make up the 2str mixture.

Over hundreds and hundreds of hours we never had any problems.....

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I've decided to pour old-oil into the fuel tank of my 1967 Wildcat 430 cid / 360 hp engine at each oil change - NOT!

How did a thread regarding running a Genny turn into pouring used oil into your fuel tank??? Thread Hijack????

 

[CPseudonym]

How did a thread regarding running a Genny turn into pouring used oil into your fuel tank??? Thread Hijack????

It's this guys fault.



The resident Trawler Forum Thread Creep

 

[N4712]

So back to gennys, RUN THEM!!!!!!