View Poll Results: Rules of the road
You must stop your vessel since the other vessel is the stand-on. 6 30.00%
You must sound one short blast of the whistle and turn to starboard. 1 5.00%
You must sound the danger signal 12 60.00%
You must stop your engines and you may sound the danger signal. 1 5.00%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-12-2012, 03:27 PM   #41
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Anchor ball isn't required in a "designated" anchorage. But I use one regardless.
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:35 PM   #42
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Good point. What do you use for the ball?
I use an anchor ball made by Plastimo. Found one at West Marine. It folds for storage. I slip it between a couple of manuals in the aft cabin when not in use.
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:50 PM   #43
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Anchor ball isn't required in a "designated" anchorage.
What kind of anchorage?
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:53 PM   #44
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Don't know what kind of anchorage for sure, Rick. Doesn't matter for me because I have the ball up when the anchor is down regardless of where I happen to be. How do you interpret the rule?

Edit: It appears that a "designated" anchorage and a "special" anchorage are the same. There are few special anchorages along the U.S. coasts....San Francisco Bay being one of them. So I guess I don't need to display a shape when at anchor but I do regardless.
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Old 10-12-2012, 04:01 PM   #45
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It isn't how I interpret a rule, it has everything to do with what you might see in certain places and misinterpret to the point of creating a hazard if you don't know the exception(s) and where they apply.
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Old 10-12-2012, 04:12 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Giggitoni View Post
Don't know what kind of anchorage for sure, Rick. Doesn't matter for me because I have the ball up when the anchor is down regardless of where I happen to be. How do you interpret the rule?

Edit: It appears that a "designated" anchorage and a "special" anchorage are the same. There are few special anchorages along the U.S. coasts....San Francisco Bay being one of them. So I guess I don't need to display a shape when at anchor but I do regardless.
A special anchorage has to be designated by the Secretary of the Dept the USCG is in....there's not all that many...

(g) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length, when at anchor in a special anchorage area designated by the Secretary, shall not be required to exhibit the anchor lights and shapes required by this Rule.
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Old 10-12-2012, 04:15 PM   #47
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Why?
Rule 9...note the last about crossing vessels...

(b) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway.
(c) A vessel engaged in fishing shall not impede the passage of any other vessel navigating within a narrow channel or fairway.
(d) A vessel shall not cross a narrow passage or fairway if such crossing impedes the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within such channel or fairway. The latter vessel may use the sound signal prescribed in Rule 34(d) if in doubt as to the intention of the crossing vessel.

And the grande finale is that the stand on vessel MUST sound the danger/doubt signal when in doubt....
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Old 10-12-2012, 04:35 PM   #48
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(g) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length, when at anchor in a special anchorage area designated by the Secretary, shall not be required to exhibit the anchor lights and shapes required by this Rule.
I'm less than 20 meters. So I don't need to display a shape or lights in SF Bay, a special anchorage? What are the ramifications if I do display anchor lights and ball?
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Old 10-12-2012, 04:47 PM   #49
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psleeld--- Thanks much for the explanation. Obviously whether or not a crossing vessel is impeding the passage of a vessel in a channel can only be determined by the people on the spot.
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Old 10-12-2012, 05:35 PM   #50
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I do! Insurance companies and attorneys scare me...
You're the only on I know in central California doing it. I've got the day signal but haven't displayed it yet. But then I've only anchored three times this century and then it was between twilight to daybreak twice where I showed the anchor light.



Ray, where do you display your anchor day signal? (Have a photo?) I'm thinking of the bow staff.
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Old 10-12-2012, 05:39 PM   #51
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Anchor ball isn't required in a "designated" anchorage. But I use one regardless.
I understand that it is exempt in "special" designated anchorages and that only Richardson Bay is the only one in central California. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:08 PM   #52
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Title 23, Part 110, Subpart A, 110.126a includes San Francisco Bay. No mention if Richardson Bay only. However, I would include Richardson bay as part of "San Francisco Bay".

I display the ball off the spreader on the stbd side.
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:12 PM   #53
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.......... If I am in my GB and I need to stay in the channel while going up the Swinomish Slough, for example, and another boat starts crossing in front of me from my starboard side, say coming out in one of the wider spots along the slough, am I the stand-on vessel simply by virtue of needing to be in the channel even though it is no problem for me to slow down or even stop in that situation?
And how does the other boater know that you've decided that you are the "stand on" vessel because you need to stay in the channel? What if he also decides he needs to stay in his channel and that he is the "stand on" vessel? I see a boat wreck in the making.
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:23 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggitoni View Post
Title 23, Part 110, Subpart A, 110.126a includes San Francisco Bay. No mention if Richardson Bay only. However, I would include Richardson bay as part of "San Francisco Bay".

I display the ball off the spreader on the stbd side.
I notice Richardson Bay to be the only special (as opposed to merely "designated") anchorage in the San Francisco estuary.

Subpart A—Special Anchorage Areas :: PART 110--ANCHORAGE REGULATIONS :: CHAPTER I--COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY :: Title 33 - Navigation and Navigable Waters :: Code of Federal Regulations :: Regulations :: Law :: Justia

Isn't a forward position of the day signal preferred?
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:59 PM   #55
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And how does the other boater know that you've decided that you are the "stand on" vessel because you need to stay in the channel? What if he also decides he needs to stay in his channel and that he is the "stand on" vessel? I see a boat wreck in the making.
Exactly. Obviously the Colreg stating that every vessel must do everything in its power to avoid a collision regardless of who's stand-on and who's give-way applies to this and every other situation. But there is a lot of interprative leeway when it comes to the "rules of the road" because of the absence of cut-and-dried rights-of-way. I understand why you can't do this with vessels (as opposed to vehicles). But it can make it very hard to say, "In this situation do this," unless you describe the situation in exacting detail.
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:26 PM   #56
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When asked these theoretical questions, it's best to think of yourself in command of a large commercial vessel unless otherwise indicated.
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:50 PM   #57
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Exactly. Obviously the Colreg stating that every vessel must do everything in its power to avoid a collision regardless of who's stand-on and who's give-way applies to this and every other situation. But there is a lot of interprative leeway when it comes to the "rules of the road" because of the absence of cut-and-dried rights-of-way. I understand why you can't do this with vessels (as opposed to vehicles). But it can make it very hard to say, "In this situation do this," unless you describe the situation in exacting detail.
Not only are there no cut-and-dried rights of way on the water, but the colregs give different rights to different sizes and types of vessels where road rules apply pretty much equally to all vehicles from bicycles to 28 wheelers.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:19 PM   #58
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You guys just don't seem to get it in it's true simplicity..the crossing vessel in a narrow channel situation should always be sensitive and call on the radio or make a move showing that he's the give way...if he doesn't and the vessel in the channel needs the channel, that vessel should sound the signal when in doubt ...90 percent of the time it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know if the vessel in the channel needs the channel or not and if still clueless... the vessel crossing should assume because as the crossing vessel you obviously don't need the channel and should just plan on going astern of the other vessel in the channel...it's so simple a caveman can do it.

You guys are making it way too hard...it happens to me a lot and it works out when I sound the danger /doubt signal as it should/as in the rules...mostly because people who DON'T know or understand the rules figure the guy laying on his whistle signal must...
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:52 PM   #59
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You guys just don't seem to get it in it's true simplicity..the crossing vessel in a narrow channel situation should always be sensitive and call on the radio or make a move showing that he's the give way...if he doesn't and the vessel in the channel needs the channel, that vessel should sound the signal when in doubt ...90 percent of the time it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know if the vessel in the channel needs the channel or not and if still clueless... the vessel crossing should assume because as the crossing vessel you obviously don't need the channel and should just plan on going astern of the other vessel in the channel...it's so simple a caveman can do it.

You guys are making it way too hard...it happens to me a lot and it works out when I sound the danger /doubt signal as it should/as in the rules...mostly because people who DON'T know or understand the rules figure the guy laying on his whistle signal must...
I agree with you psneeld, and hope what I say encapsulates your teaching/feeling!

Basically... In addition to navel or CG rules: Common sense and common courtesy play a large part in the operator’s safe operation/physical-positioning of any vehicle... water borne vessels most certainly included.
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:18 AM   #60
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You guys just don't seem to get it in it's true simplicity..the crossing vessel in a narrow channel situation should always be sensitive and call on the radio or make a move showing that he's the give way...if he doesn't and the vessel in the channel needs the channel, that vessel should sound the signal when in doubt ...
Tell that to the commercial tug boat, which made no signal, leaving its berth to enter the Point Potrero Reach channel and appearing immediately in front of me from portside (causing me to stop). I've got to start pushing the five-short-and-quick-horn-signal button if just to emphasize other captains'/commanders' ineptitude.

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