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Old 09-23-2014, 11:15 AM   #21
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None that we can detect. Obviously, these rudders create some additional drag - you wouldn't want to use them on a planning hull, but this doesn't really factor in at the displacement speeds our boats are capable of. In fact, we have upgraded many older boats for our owners and all have been thrilled with the new rudders - both performance-wise, and the fact that they don't corrode like steel rudders!
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Old 09-23-2014, 11:59 AM   #22
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Old School's prop & rudder from survey in 2008.
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Old 09-23-2014, 10:27 PM   #23
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Oliver's prop and rudder.
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Old 09-23-2014, 10:42 PM   #24
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Here's Boomarang's rudder, coated with PropSpeed last time. I mostly use the Simrad autopilot and jog-stick while underway. The hydraulic steering is 5 turns LTL and I have gotten really spoiled with the follow-up jog lever. It is mounted on a Ram ball mount and can be extended to the upper steering station for use there too. Serious overkill ($1,250) but really worth it.
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Old 09-24-2014, 12:28 AM   #25
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Refugio,
our N62 has a hydraulic proportional stern thruster - 25 HP - continuous duty. Makes me look like a Rock Star when docking. (I need it!)
And no bow thruster? Or one of those as well?

With neither, I can only change heading by a blast ahead, which of course pivots 1/3 of the way aft on the waterline. If I have my dinghy on the stern, I swing a big (and vulnerable) ass relative to my size - and that makes me very reluctant to go into tight spaces.

So I really want to move the bow without moving the stern as much, and I assumed that would mean a bow thruster, but I'm open to ideas. I have hydraulics for my windlass, but it's insufficient to run what I'm guessing would be an 8hp bow thruster. I could also see adding thrusters at both ends but now that's turning into a huge project.
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Old 09-25-2014, 09:57 PM   #26
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I mostly use the Simrad autopilot and jog-stick while underway. The hydraulic steering is 5 turns LTL and I have gotten really spoiled with the follow-up jog lever. It is mounted on a Ram ball mount and can be extended to the upper steering station for use there too. Serious overkill ($1,250) but really worth it.
oK, that got me poking into jog levers. I have a Cetrek 930 autopilot over my hydraulic steering. I point the boat, hit "on", and sit back. I use the rotary knob to ease around things, and have only used the jog buttons once. I have a remote station and handheld, but have never installed it. And there was a "proportional jog lever" at an eye-popping $1K that I never purchased. I just found a listing on the web for one NOS in Croatia for $200eu, but it's been sold.

So now I'm on the hunt...Puget Sound Instruments guy who deals with autopilots hasn't a clue, says to call ComNav. OK, ComNav has a jog switch - will it work with my autopilot? Tech there says theirs is a "bang-bang" switch - I can try shorting the port and starboard wires to the common and seeing if it moves the rudder. If it does, their NFU switch will work...but the switch that was sold for my autopilot is "proportional", so...per this Navitron page, I want a FU (also FFU) switch.

Now I get onto another jog dial manufacturer's support page, and calling them links me to one of the best techs I've ever talked to, period. What I'm really looking for is a switch with a potentiometer - when set in the middle range the rudder is amidships, less is one direction, more the other. I can buy their switch (it's in the $500 to $1K range - I'm deliberately being coy here) and hope that it works, or I can buy a corresponding potentiometer and try it myself first. We exchange a couple of emails, and a while later I end up with the schematic to their controller and the ca.mouser.com link to the 1K ohm linear precision potentiometer they use. I can get a (non-precision but still high quality) potentiometer with the same specs locally for $8.

If that works, then I just have to figure out how to gear 1 full turn down to a lever that rotates through about 60 degrees. And find a way to incorporate an "engaged" switch, a center return spring?, and maybe an "on" light, and then the plug for the Cetrek.

Damn, I really wish that unit in Croatia were still available!
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Old 09-25-2014, 11:22 PM   #27
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I know the OP asked for pics of rudders on single engine boats - but thought I would post these pics of the fiberglass Great Harbour "Fishtail Rudders" that we have been installing on our trawlers since about 2004. 60% smaller turning circle at cruise speed than the old flat-plate steel rudders.
Kraftee, that's exactly what I've envisioned on my twin Californian. Looks like the perfect solution for twin prop protection and enhanced maneuverability. Beautiful!!
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Old 09-26-2014, 09:59 AM   #28
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Art.
Of course there will be more drag and speed lost or an rpm and fuel burn increase. Big rudders right in the middle of the propwash trying to pull the boat backwards.

It's interesting how so many talk about fuel efficiency but think nothing of increasing drag or weight.

Just a bigger rudder will probably have less drag. But lots of commercial boats (helmsman not paying for fuel) have them and they are effective.
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Old 09-26-2014, 10:06 AM   #29
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Old 09-26-2014, 11:07 AM   #30
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I acknowledged that big fishtail rudders would certainly increase drag. But when you are talking about displacement speeds - in the real-world, with less than perfectly clean hulls, it's really only of minimal effect. We have retrofitted at least half a dozen Great Harbours from their original flat steel rudders to the new 'glass ones. NONE of the owners reported any noticeable change in economy or speed

I mean, even if one were able to detect a slight decrease in fuel economy, for many folks it's a welcome tradeoff for the increased maneuverability at cruise AND at the dock. With the fishtails, it is a simple matter to walk the boat sideways away from the dock - without touching the bow thruster.

However, if absolute fuel economy is your overriding concern, perhaps the higher drag rudders wouldn't appeal to you. We all have different priorities.

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Old 09-28-2014, 02:56 PM   #31
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Stout's Rudder (American Tug 34)

From survey haul out, AT-34, 26LH25.5 wheel. Seems to have good rudder authority. So far with the bow thruster it has been fairly easy to maneuver at the docks.
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Old 09-28-2014, 04:52 PM   #32
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Rudder is fairly large for my boat's size. Prop is 16" to give you a size comparison. I have fairly good maneuverability.
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Old 10-01-2014, 10:59 PM   #33
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Here is a video on how well a fishtail rudder can work.
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Old 10-01-2014, 11:16 PM   #34
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here is a video on how well a fishtail rudder can work.
ee-freaking-gad!!!!!!!
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Old 10-02-2014, 12:25 AM   #35
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Single screw... I am impressed!

No other assistance besides fish tail rudder?

And, really good operator!
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Old 10-02-2014, 12:28 AM   #36
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Correct all rudder I have a bow thruster but don't use it much except to get away from the dock.
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Old 10-02-2014, 12:46 AM   #37
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Correct all rudder I have a bow thruster but don't use it much except to get away from the dock.
Heck man... I've maneuvered singles (not with fish tail rudder) and not like your video reveals. My twin is really easy to play close-up with... but... it seems no better than your boat in your hands. That is you at helm, isn't it?
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Old 10-02-2014, 09:27 AM   #38
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A rudder to be thankful for

Yes that's me at the helm it's nice having a big heavy steel boat it is kind of predictable. The boat is a little harder to run with the fishtail rudder just because the size of the turn can vary so much. Most singles you go full rudder all the time for most docking turns. With the current set up I can turn rudder up to 75 degrees one way. This leads into the problem of too tight of a turn.
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Old 10-02-2014, 09:55 AM   #39
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Only 75 degrees? I find that amazing when it looks like the propwash is actually moving your boat backwards during your hard over turn to port!
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Old 10-02-2014, 09:59 AM   #40
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The backside of the fish tail is pointing way more than 90
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