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Old 04-20-2016, 09:37 AM   #1
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Rudder surprise

Well, the boat is sitting in the water in Michigan. It's getting close to the time to head for Ohio. Like everybody else taking their boat out for the first time, I'm doing the mental list of things to do.

Into my head pops the odd rudder configuration. Solid stainless with a 3 inch hole towards the leading edge. I thought it was odd. Survey said nothing about it. Huh... I asked the owners if it was the original rudder. They acted like what are you talking about.

So last night I started looking for photos of Heritage West Indian 36s online and lo and behold! The Heritage has a foil shaped rudder. Evidently at some time over the years the fiberglass fell off the rudder and the stainless skeleton is all that's left. Crazier still is that the rudder functions really well. Though it would probably blow me away how well it would work if it was correct lol...

The current owners had no idea about this. ( I really believe they didn't). I guess that now I have another project. Anyways, is there a Heritage West Indian 36 owner out there that can give me the dimensions of the rudder. I'd need the length, depth, width at the thickest cross section and the dimension from the leading edge to the front of the rudder shaft.

looks like the fun is about to start

Thanks guys, Ted
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Old 04-20-2016, 10:04 AM   #2
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A plate, stainless steel rudder with a hole is not unusual, I've surveyed many boats with this type. The hole is for withdrawing the shaft without having to remove the rudder.

I have no idea whether or not it is original but it is almost certainly not the frame of an original foil rudder. FRP foil rudders will have some sort of stainless skeleton frame or large tangs welded on to the rudder stock and then encapsulated, not a solid plate. A photo would be nice.
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Old 04-20-2016, 10:11 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
A plate, stainless steel rudder with a hole is not unusual, I've surveyed many boats with this type. The hole is for withdrawing the shaft without having to remove the rudder.

I have no idea whether or not it is original but it is almost certainly not the frame of an original foil rudder. FRP foil rudders will have some sort of stainless skeleton frame or large tangs welded on to the rudder stock and then encapsulated, not a solid plate. A photo would be nice.

Our rudder is SS. This is after priming.
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Old 04-20-2016, 10:16 AM   #4
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Our stainless rudder looks similar
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Old 04-20-2016, 10:47 AM   #5
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Old 04-20-2016, 11:43 AM   #6
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tedted,
What's this "project"?

Jay how does your external stern thruster work?
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Old 04-20-2016, 01:59 PM   #7
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Jay how does your external stern thruster work?
I answered in a PM so as to not distract from the subject.
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Old 04-20-2016, 02:52 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by tedted View Post
I guess that now I have another project.

Ted,
a foil shaped profile on your rudder might reduce the drag of the rudder to a certain extend but only as long as we are talking about small rudder angles. (The more you increase the rudder angle i.e. the more you increase the "angle of attack" of your foil the less the drag will be controlled by the profile itself. )
As long as you won't cruise with excessive speed i.e. if you won't cruise usually at high planning speed you can neglect this positive effect of drag reduction at small rudder angles on fuel consumption IMO. In addition you seem to have already positive evidence of rudder effectiveness.
Of course it is satisfying to rebuild a boat to the original design, but there might be other things on higher priority...
(As mentioned in previous posts: I'm an engineer. To be precise: fluid mechanics / turbo machinery. But I'm not an owner of your type of boat, so it is all theory what I stated above)


best regards / med venlig hilsen
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Old 04-20-2016, 02:56 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by waddenkruiser View Post
Of course it is satisfying to rebuild a boat to the original design, but there might be other things on higher priority...
(As mentioned in previous posts: I'm an engineer. To be precise: fluid mechanics / turbo machinery. But I'm not an owner of your type of boat, so it is all theory what I stated above)
There might also be a reason the boat isn't as the original design. Perhaps even changed before build. But whoever chose the current rudder probably had a reason to stray from the original and it would be very sad to spend the work on the original design only to find out what that reason was and that the current one works better.
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Old 04-20-2016, 03:21 PM   #10
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Visiting Cleveland/Port Clinton Next Week

My wife has a work meeting next week, and I will likely be out looking at boats Tuesday- Thursday Anyone wants to meet at a marina, please let me know. If schedules can work, would love to learn more about our boat and others. --New to trawlers last year. - I just posted a strut question on our Californian 34.

Thanks!
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Old 04-20-2016, 03:21 PM   #11
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Greetings,
Mr. w. Ah, yes. Fluid mechanics. A noble profession, to be sure. Amazingly enough, there are a large number of such types in another section of TF (OTDE). Even though amateurs, it appears they have honed their skills to such a level as to approach professional status (See below). To those NOT familiar with this "subscription only" section of the site I suggest avoidance.
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Old 04-20-2016, 03:53 PM   #12
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Funny pic/video!

Not sure what you are talking about though.
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Old 04-20-2016, 04:06 PM   #13
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Greetings,
Mr. s. There is another section of TF called Off The Deep End (OTDE) which, as mentioned is by subscription only. You have to sign into this option in order to be able to read and post. The topics are controversial, or can be, to say the least (religion, politics etc.) and NOT for the faint of heart or those easily offended. Nasty place, for the most part but it does provide a venue for those subjects which should and must be kept out of the main forum. You're not missing anything much.

Re: the GIF...I strongly suspect a number of the posters on OTDE are problem drinkers and unable to hold their alcohol. Their posts substantiate this suspicion on a daily basis.
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Old 04-20-2016, 05:06 PM   #14
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I strongly suspect a number of the posters on OTDE are...unable to hold their liquor.
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Old 04-20-2016, 11:46 PM   #15
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CP,
Surprised no one has picked up on that one yet!

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Old 04-21-2016, 06:50 AM   #16
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Thanks a lot folks. I do have a photo in the survey. The hole is indeed aligned with the rudder for shaft removal. Mystery solved. Being an ex sailboater I'm not really proficient in the nuances of the "other side".

It raises the question as to why the photo of the other West Indian has a foiled rudder. After seeing other makes of trawlers with stainless rudders of very much the same design, I'm not so concerned. As their size seems appropriate and proportional to what I'm seeing in the photos posted.

I'll have to read up on how to post a photo. I realize how handy they are to a discussion. I'm fairly computer illiterate and am still wrestling with the arcane process of cut and paste

Thanks again guys for clearing this up for me. Ted
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Old 04-21-2016, 03:35 PM   #17
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Post #6 specifically answers how to post a picture but the entire thread is worthwhile of a read for the newer members and even some of the old hands.
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