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05-02-2018, 04:22 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
City: Blaine
Vessel Name: Slow Bells
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 38
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 327
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rudder angle
My twin screw Marine Trader 38 has hydraulic steering, and it is becoming increasingly obvious to me that I would greatly benefit from knowing when my rudder is centered. What are my options to make that happen?
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05-02-2018, 04:46 PM
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#2
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Valued Technical Contributor
City: Litchfield, Ct
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,786
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If you have an autopilot they can often be fitted with a rudder angle indicator that shows on the autopilot display. Some chartplotters also have that capability. If either work for you, then you need to get an indicator from the manufacturer of the autopilot/chartplotter and hook it up. I have never seen a stand alone rudder angle display, but I suspect that they exist. Check Garmin, Raymarine, Simrad, etc.
David
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05-02-2018, 04:51 PM
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#3
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Guru
City: Aventura FL
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116 2008
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 10,595
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Install a rudder angle indicator. The sending unit is attached to the rudder post and then there is a remote indicator. Garmin is one of many makers.
OR
Knowing how many turns of the helm wheel stop to stop, 1/2 the number of turns should place the rudder at 0 angle. Put a decorative cord on the spoke when the rudder is centered. You just have to remember to count the helm turns.
__________________
Two days out the hospital after a week in the hospital because of a significant heart attack.
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05-02-2018, 04:55 PM
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#4
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Guru
City: Cape May, NJ
Vessel Name: Irish Lady
Vessel Model: Monk 36
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,966
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Your AP may already have that feature. What make and model?
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05-02-2018, 05:21 PM
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#5
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Master and Commander
City: Vallejo CA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,559
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My broken rudder indicator needs to be fixed! Find a properly operating indicator to be very useful. Didn't need one when using a tiller to steer, however.
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Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
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05-02-2018, 05:29 PM
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#6
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Guru
City: Sarasota,FL/Thomasville,GA
Vessel Name: Steppin Stone IV
Vessel Model: Marine Trader Kelly Trawler 46
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seattleboatguy
My twin screw Marine Trader 38 has hydraulic steering, and it is becoming increasingly obvious to me that I would greatly benefit from knowing when my rudder is centered. What are my options to make that happen?
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Are you trying to do it old school (very Basic), or do you want a gauge ?
__________________
Alan
Skype roatan63
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05-02-2018, 06:14 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
City: Blaine
Vessel Name: Slow Bells
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 38
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDan1943
Install a rudder angle indicator. The sending unit is attached to the rudder post and then there is a remote indicator. Garmin is one of many makers.
OR
Knowing how many turns of the helm wheel stop to stop, 1/2 the number of turns should place the rudder at 0 angle. Put a decorative cord on the spoke when the rudder is centered. You just have to remember to count the helm turns.
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I have no autopilot, but I do have a Garmin chartplotter (model 741). I'll do some homework to find out if I can plug a rudder angle indicator into the Garmin's network. Thanks. As for turns on the helm, it is roughly 5 full wheel rotations from hard-to-port to hard-to-starboard, so the decorative cord is not going to work well for me on this boat. I did use the same idea on my former sailboat, and that worked out reasonably well.
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05-02-2018, 06:16 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
City: Blaine
Vessel Name: Slow Bells
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 38
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siestakey
Are you trying to do it old school (very Basic), or do you want a gauge ?
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All I am really interested in is when the rudder is centered. Anything that will quickly tell me that is going to satisfy all my requirements.
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05-02-2018, 06:24 PM
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#9
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Guru
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDan1943
...
Knowing how many turns of the helm wheel stop to stop, 1/2 the number of turns should place the rudder at 0 angle. Put a decorative cord on the spoke when the rudder is centered. You just have to remember to count the helm turns.
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+1
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" MurrayM
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05-02-2018, 06:27 PM
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#10
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Guru
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seattleboatguy
All I am really interested in is when the rudder is centered. Anything that will quickly tell me that is going to satisfy all my requirements.
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For a fix now,follow the advice in post 3. You can also operate the boat straight ahead,and mark the top spoke.If you have twins,be sure your engines are at equal output.
Longer term, install a simple rudder indicator gauage.
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
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05-02-2018, 06:28 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
City: Albany, N.Y.
Vessel Name: Tranquility
Vessel Model: Trojan F32
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 116
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I made one that is very accurate. I bought a universal fuel gage and sender. Hooked the sender up to the rudder linkage and when the gage is showing half full the rudder is centered.Cost under $35.00.
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05-02-2018, 06:34 PM
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#12
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Guru
City: Sarasota,FL/Thomasville,GA
Vessel Name: Steppin Stone IV
Vessel Model: Marine Trader Kelly Trawler 46
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seattleboatguy
All I am really interested in is when the rudder is centered. Anything that will quickly tell me that is going to satisfy all my requirements.
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Bruce and others have you covered with good ideas
Just a basic gauge and KUS senso can be installed for under $150
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Alan
Skype roatan63
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05-02-2018, 06:50 PM
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#13
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Guru
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenk
I made one that is very accurate. I bought a universal fuel gage and sender. Hooked the sender up to the rudder linkage and when the gage is showing half full the rudder is centered.Cost under $35.00.
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Sneaky.
Any hints as to how this was rigged up?
Did you mount the gauge upside down, and does the needle mimic the rudder angle while steering to port or starboard?
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" MurrayM
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05-02-2018, 07:14 PM
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#14
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Guru
City: Melbourne, FL
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,731
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Kenk’s idea is a good one. The fuel sending unit with a float arm, take the float off and center the sending unit where half full is straight ahead. Should work on both port and starboard. Hard part would be securing the fixed part of the sending unit where half full reads straight ahead.
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05-02-2018, 07:27 PM
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#15
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Guru
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stubones99
Kenk’s idea is a good one. The fuel sending unit with a float arm, take the float off and center the sending unit where half full is straight ahead. Should work on both port and starboard. Hard part would be securing the fixed part of the sending unit where half full reads straight ahead.
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So...instead of the float moving up & down to indicate full or empty, you rig it to indicate port or starboard by moving sideways, right?
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" MurrayM
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05-02-2018, 07:44 PM
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#16
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Guru
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,308
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Both Raritan and VDO make nice stand alone rudder indicators.
http://raritaneng.com/ruddermaster/
KenK, I like the fuel gauge trick. Very clever.
__________________
Parks Masterson
Retired from Hopkins-Carter Marine Supply
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05-02-2018, 07:51 PM
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#17
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Guru
City: Melbourne, FL
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,731
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05-02-2018, 08:36 PM
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#18
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Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
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My Willard works out really well counting turns of the helm.
There’s three turns L to L so going all the way either way is quick and 1 1/2 turns finds rudder position centered. Easy and fast. Both important.
Two turns L to L or four would work too but two turns would require power steering (probably) and four turns is much more helm spining. Sore fingers?
But w/o power steering three turns is probably too fast for most trawlers. But there’s quite a few smaller (less than 33’?) trawlers that could go there.
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Eric
North Western Washington State USA
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05-02-2018, 09:53 PM
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#19
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Guru
City: Aventura FL
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116 2008
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 10,595
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My AT34 has Vessel View by SmartCraft and has a rudder position indicator..... which I find useless because of its location on the display. I added a Garmin rudder position indicator at near eye level. At the same level, I have a Garmin depth sounder indicator attached to a glue, to the inside of the hull, depth sounder.
To me, these two indicators plus a magnetic compass and current paper charts can get you home or to your destination, if necessary.
__________________
Two days out the hospital after a week in the hospital because of a significant heart attack.
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05-02-2018, 10:21 PM
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#20
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TF Site Team
City: Saltspring Island
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,663
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Google: Rudder Angle Indicator
Lots of good possibilities.
__________________
Keith
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