Rope sling for cleat, then attach multiple lines to dock

[sdowney717]

Endless Polyester Round Lifting Sling - 3' (Green)

I saw a sling mentioned as a way of doubling lines to a single cleat.
So found you can buy them here made of polyester.
Has anyone done such a thing using a rope sling to attach multiple lines to a single cleat?

Or alternatively, make your own sling.

Grog Sling | How to tie the Grog Sling | Splicing Knots

Here was their idea.
Cleat Extenders - Top Shelf Marine Products

Would a cleat extender idea cause more than normal wear to a dock line?

 

[psneeld]

I have been thinking of using a system like that...

If your dock lines don't wear on the pole or cleat end...they should last forever...well almost except for over stretching in storms.

Certainly no chafe.

 

[dhays]

Just make yourself a dyneema loop. Easy and cheap. It will be plenty strong and it holds up well to UV.

Edit: I just noticed that the second link was to a dyneema loop. Those work well. For extra securing you can stitch them. Coincidentally, I just happened to make one today while on the boat. Turns out I think I am going to want one a couple inches longer than the one I made.

 

[sdowney717]

I think this could still wear the line where the loops touch each other, if lines slide past each other.

Overall less contact so overall less chafing. Does seem like a good idea even with single lines.

How about braiding a 3/4 nylon line to make a short loop? I have lots of nylon 3 strand.
What is the advantage of a polyester, or Dyneema loop over a nylon loop?

They call these endless loops, and Amazon also sells them very cheap.
These polyester loop are lifting straps and some are tubular, some flat in profile, so don't know if that is a negative. Watch the width as it has to fit the cleat.

https://www.amazon.com/Purple-Endle..._9?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1490525245&sr=1-9
https://www.amazon.com/All-Material..._1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1490483318&sr=1-1

From the description says "16800 pounds vertical basket capacity. 1-1/8-inches approximately diameter."
https://www.amazon.com/ERS3-03-Poly...F8&qid=1490483246&sr=1-20#feature-bullets-btf

https://www.amazon.com/Green-Endles...3&sr=1-3&keywords=tubular#feature-bullets-btf

I found a width chart and color code for capacity for Advantage rigging endless loops

 

[dhays]

I think this could still wear the line where the loops touch each other, if lines slide past each other.

Overall less contact so overall less chafing. Does seem like a good idea even with single lines.

How about braiding a 3/4 nylon line to make a short loop? I have lots of nylon 3 strand.
What is the advantage of a polyester, or Dyneema loop over a nylon loop?

They call these endless loops, and Amazon also sells them very cheap.

I think those would work great. I still think that the dyneema has a few advantages, depending on your application.

Dyneema is extremely slippery so there is less friction with another line and therefore less chafe.

You can buy 50' of dyneema online for $30. That is enough to make 30 endless loops or soft shackles. That is under $2.00 each.

I have used the dyneema for sailboat applications for years, but have not used it for dock line applications. However I am about to start.

My proposed solution to the line on line friction that you mention is to do what you mention, splice an eye in three strand nylon but I am going to put a nylon thimble in the eye. This eye will be connected to a dock cleat with a soft shackle. My intention is to use use one shackle per dock line, putting two of them on a few dock cleats.

I don't need to put multiple lines on the same cleat on my boat at my home dock so will simply use a spliced loop to go over the cleat on the boat side. I am considering putting some tubing over the line in the spliced loop for added chafe protection. When the tubing wears too much from chafe, then I still have the good nylon line under it that can wear. I am hoping that I can get maybe 5 years of good use out of this combination.

For multiple docking lines on the same cleat on the boat, You could either use a dyneema loop or just use a soft shackle to connect the lines.

 

[DHeckrotte]

I prefer multiple lines to multiple cleats.

 

[SlowGypsy]

dhays: - might I suggest you research the idea of putting tubing over the rope, before you jump in? It seems at first a good idea, but I have seen evidence that storm surge can literally melt the rope inside the tube if you use the wrong material.
We used to recommend pieces of old, used fire hose for that purpose. Nowadays, however, fire hose is lined with a vinyl type material, and the heat generated by friction with your rope is quite awesome!
I think commercial chafe protection might be a better idea? I often just wrap the chafe points with layers of a cotton material, properly secured to keep it in place. In any event, frequent checking of your lines during a severe storm is prudent.
For every day use, you might find a tubing material that serves you well. If so, let us know what works, without actually making the chaffe problem worse.

 

[sdowney717]

I have read even soaking wet lines can weaken from heat caused by extreme yanking on the line. Would have to be a big storm, something I have never seen, meaning I have yet to have a line break in any storm on my boat. Boat has been docked at Wormley Creek in Yorktown, VA during Isabel which passed over us in 2003? and another storm can't recall name. Was on the boat at South Hall Landings marina in Hampton 2006?, with a friend as the eye went over, and the winds shifted.
Never had a line part. Mostly I use 3/4 Nylon 3 strand for dock lines on a 37 foot boat. I have a few 5/8 lines too.

I have produced some line wear at the loop ends of splices where I used to cinch the loop around a piling, just normal wear and tear I suppose. I stopped doing that, I now go round the piling at least twice and tie half hitches.

 

[dhays]

dhays: - might I suggest you research the idea of putting tubing over the rope, before you jump in? It seems at first a good idea, but I have seen evidence that storm surge can literally melt the rope inside the tube if you use the wrong material.

We used to recommend pieces of old, used fire hose for that purpose. Nowadays, however, fire hose is lined with a vinyl type material, and the heat generated by friction with your rope is quite awesome!

I think commercial chafe protection might be a better idea? I often just wrap the chafe points with layers of a cotton material, properly secured to keep it in place. In any event, frequent checking of your lines during a severe storm is prudent.

For every day use, you might find a tubing material that serves you well. If so, let us know what works, without actually making the chaffe problem worse.

I know that a few years ago practical Sailor did some testing on that very issue. They did find that many of the line failures during major storm events occurred from heat buildup.

My issue is not major storm events but the normal daily wear over years. My thought is to use simple nylon tubular webbing. It won't hold in heat, but also won't provide a huge amount of chafe protection.

 

[JDCAVE]

Would this work with hauser as well, or is it specifically for cleats only? Currently we use a single long line for the fore and aft springing for the boat at the amidships hauser. It's a pita to work with and I would rather have a two lines but there simply isn't room for them on the hauser, particularly with a fender line as well.

 

[sdowney717]

Would this work with hauser as well, or is it specifically for cleats only? Currently we use a single long line for the fore and aft springing for the boat at the amidships hauser. It's a pita to work with and I would rather have a two lines but there simply isn't room for them on the hauser, particularly with a fender line as well.

The loops work as cleat extenders, really like having extra cleats, so why not?
Doing your way simply pulls the loop from different directions at the same time, the strength of the loop is not changed.
The loop goes thru the eye of the cleat and over the horns. So it can't come off.

An advantage of the endless loop, if cleat and endless loop strength exceed the dock line strength you can easily double up dock lines if a major storm is coming.

My guess is the loop is going to be or can be selected to be the strongest part of the arrangement here.

 

[Snapdragon III]

I have used these continuous loops extensively for rigging as a pipe fitter on commercial construction projects. They are super tough, and chafe resistant. I think this is a really good idea, and will try it on my boat when it is time for new dock lines. I also think the chafe would be minimized since the sling has no stretch, and will not work itself back and forth over the boat edges as it stretches slightly. Unless your boat is huge, I would get the purple ones instead of the green ones.

 

[sdowney717]

Could the endless loop be secured to the cleat by just wrapping 2 loops round the cleat base, not passing through the eye? Fold the loop over on itself a loop in a loop..

 

[danderer]

I have used the dyneema for sailboat applications for years, but have not used it for dock line applications. However I am about to start.

I've never tried dyneema. What size would you think appropriate in this type of application?

 

[sdowney717]

went looking for Dynema rope slings and found 14 mm slings very cheap.
14 mm is 0.55 inches.
Although need to find out are these slings truly going to hold that weight since they mention sown slings, maybe they are spliced then sown. Seeing they sell to climbers likely they must be good.
SLINGS


Standard length slings sewn in a continuous loop: 24",36" & 48". (Custom lengths available).

14mm Dyneema "Short Slings"
ITEM# 655SS 12" $5.00

14mm Dyneema
ITEM# 656 24" $10.00
ITEM# 657 36" $13.001
ITEM# 658 48" $16.00

14 mm Dynema 8800 kg breaking strength, which is 19400 pounds.

Rope Selector : Dyneema Racing® - 14mm

 

[dhays]

I've never tried dyneema. What size would you think appropriate in this type of application?

3/16" or 5mm would be plenty strong. It has a breaking strength of over 5000lbs. The type of soft shackle that I make is about 1.7 x the single line strength. Today I made one up to use on the anchor chain to attach my bridle. It wraps around the chain twice.



I took a couple picks with a continuous loop on my cleat then I used a couple soft shackles to attach a couple lines with thimbles to show another option.