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Old 12-21-2015, 03:01 PM   #101
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I don't mean to beat the finance/pay-cash thing to death because we've covered it pretty well, but the other thing that crosses my mind -- you know we often have discussions here about the cost of fuel, fuel burn rates, etc. I remember we recently got into a thread about some boaters who don't seem to think the cost of fuel is a big deal in light of the overall cost of boat ownership. Heck, boats cost an arm and a leg, fuel is a negligible fraction of the overall cost, don't let it drive your boat choice, etc. While that's not my thinking and I watch fuel burn like a hawk, when it comes to interest payments on a boat loan, that really is a tiny fraction. In fact -- where's the calculator -- yes, we spent more on fuel than we paid in boat loan interest last year. (Come to think of it, we'll spend more on new canvas and strataglass this year than we will on interest. Heck, one year's haul-out and winterization and launch is about triple the annual interest, although we do have a relatively small loan with a low rate and short term.)
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Old 12-21-2015, 04:10 PM   #102
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Did anyone ever say that a "retirement boat" means one that the person is going to live on full time? Is that what the term "retirement boat" means?

Or is it just a boat that you own in your retirement years and have available for use for day trips or longer cruises?
Exactly!! We consider our boat as a part, not the main of our retirement. Living in our natural local constructed log house on the beach,burning a wood fire there are times that choosing between the boat or a glass of wine on the deck is a real challenge, one we truly enjoy. Now think how wonderful retirement is when we take that wine out on the boat and enjoy those voyages with the same settings from a different anchorage. We think our attitude allows having many different 'toys' the boat being a main one.
It is a case of living within your means and allocating assests to retirement joys!!

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For our road trips through B.C.Canada/golfing outings
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Al, to define "retirement boat" for this discussion....it would be a boat to cruise full time on. That was the intent of my post. If I was just going to live on land and take the boat out when the mood strikes, I'd keep the boat I have. Because that is exactly how I am living life currently...although not retired. I am averaging about 300 hours a year with a full time job.
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Old 12-21-2015, 04:15 PM   #103
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Here in Galveston Bay, there is an island called Redfish Island. It lays along the Houston Ship Channel and was created by the spoil from dredging the channel. The Channel itself acts as a (mental) barrier to most and the vast majority of the boating around here is bordered by Redfish Island and the HSC....so much so that I refer to the HSC as "the edge of the world"...because nobody really goes beyond it...they go right up to it and turn around/tack and go back the other way. Well I friend and songwriter wrote a song about this and I will post two verses below as well as the chorus in between. It definitely brings home the point about timing and our mortality....
Here's another...kinda Jimmy Beffet-esque - a catchy tune. Something here for everyone.

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Old 12-21-2015, 04:36 PM   #104
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I don't mean to beat the finance/pay-cash thing to death because we've covered it pretty well, but the other thing that crosses my mind -- you know we often have discussions here about the cost of fuel, fuel burn rates, etc. I remember we recently got into a thread about some boaters who don't seem to think the cost of fuel is a big deal in light of the overall cost of boat ownership. Heck, boats cost an arm and a leg, fuel is a negligible fraction of the overall cost, don't let it drive your boat choice, etc. While that's not my thinking and I watch fuel burn like a hawk, when it comes to interest payments on a boat loan, that really is a tiny fraction. In fact -- where's the calculator -- yes, we spent more on fuel than we paid in boat loan interest last year. (Come to think of it, we'll spend more on new canvas and strataglass this year than we will on interest. Heck, one year's haul-out and winterization and launch is about triple the annual interest, although we do have a relatively small loan with a low rate and short term.)
Yes, Yes... But, But! Interest on a loan is a cost that would be completely eliminated if cash were used for all initial purchase expense. So... utilizing my silly little calculator mind set... unless you can make more $$$ than the interest cost by having cash\money remaining on hand due to having that loan, or, unless you simply do not have enough cash to begin with and require a loan - there is little to no reason to have a loan on a pleasure-boat that is simply a play toy. Of course, if it's used as business expense, then write-offs can come into play and loans may perform well in overall context!
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Old 12-21-2015, 04:38 PM   #105
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Wow. Lots of boats! Do that many anchor for the night or just for the day?
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Old 12-21-2015, 06:01 PM   #106
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If you have pretty clearly defined the boat you want (size, layout, ergonomics, etc.) and have the financing/payment issues in hand, boat availability is more important to me than timing in relation to actual retirement. In our case, we pretty much knew we would fully retire when our daughter heads off to college in the Fall of 2017. We realized that back in about 2009/2010. We also had a pretty good idea as to what we wanted in a boat. So, we started looking. By 2011, we found a deal we felt was unlikely to be matched any time in the relatively near future, so after a lot of thought, we went ahead and bought our "retirement" boat, about 6 years before retirement and before we had anticipated buying. Don't regret it for a single minute. The boat has turned to be all that we expected plus some. By now, it needs nothing other than fuel and supplies to take off, and we need nothing in the way of learning the boat, anticipating maintenance and the like. And, our thoughts at the time that the deal was too good to turn down have been borne out. While we are comfortable financially with the boat, we could not afford to duplicate now what we did then. So, in our case, buying when we found "The Boat" rather than worrying about the timing has worked out well. Not to mention the past 4 years of enjoyment on the boat!
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Old 12-21-2015, 06:08 PM   #107
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... unless you can make more $$$ than the interest cost by having cash\money remaining on hand due to having that loan, or, unless you simply do not have enough cash to begin with and require a loan - there is little to no reason to have a loan on a pleasure-boat that is simply a play toy. Of course, if it's used as business expense, then write-offs can come into play and loans may perform well in overall context!
Well, let's see -- I do write off the interest as a second home on our taxes -- barely makes a difference on our annual balance sheet but it's a few bucks (buys half a tank of gas maybe). And then I left state employment in Alaska in 1999 with a chunk on money in a benefits program where I could choose from a menu of investment options. I chose mostly S&P. Deduct management fees (I had no choice, bad program, but a huge future income hit if I had cashed out and moved it) and inflation, and the cost of taxation when I take the distribution, and now 16 years later I have almost exactly the same amount in there now that I did in 1999, so that particular investment has been flat as a board long term. Yes, interest may be burning money in one sense, but to me it's the price I pay for current enjoyment over deferred enjoyment that I may or may not ever live to see. And most investment rates of return have been so ridiculously low in recent years that the net lost income for financing the boat is -- well, again, less than the cost of the new canvas on the flybridge this spring.

I actually worry far more about covering the skyrocketing property taxes on my house after retirement than I do about a few bucks in boat loan interest for the next three years. The little town of Sioux Falls, SD is half a BILLION dollars in debt. The boat is nothing compared to that potential tax escalation.
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Old 12-21-2015, 08:34 PM   #108
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Wow. Lots of boats! Do that many anchor for the night or just for the day?
Generally..they just stay for the day. There might be a few stragglers that overnight.

The explanation of that song is that Redfish had been there forever and then in the early 90s it disappeared due to heavy ship traffic. It has since been rebuilt to about 1/3 the size it used to be. It WAS a very good anchorage. It really isn't that great anymore due to its orientation to prevailing winds and its smaller size.
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Old 12-21-2015, 08:46 PM   #109
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I purchased our first retirement boat at the age of 45 (WITH A GOAL OF RETIRING AT 55) and glade we did so. Our boat was a new Nordhavn 40 which we sold in 18 months before building another N40 then life happened and my wife became ill. Sold the boat, had a difficult 4 years before being able to get back on the water. We just started to build what may become our retirement boat (Helmsman 38 PG) at the age of 55. No way I can retire as planned for another five years if things go well.

Bottom line is buy the boat today and start enjoying life. There are no guarantees.

John T.
Couldn't agree more. get out there and do it asap is the way to go, as one does not know quite what the future will hold. I bought our boat with cash, but as a lower cost fixer-upper, when I was 55, planning to do her up slowly as we could afford, so when I retired she would be just right, and we'd have more time to use her.

Well, as we have heard from others, health issues and other unexpected things, like financial set-backs eg, can sometimes throw a huge spanner in the works, and we now find ourselves in the position of having to sell the boat in order to be able to retire. Not what I had hoped for, but hey - we have had 13 yrs of fun out of her which if we had waited for retirement we would not have had.

So...Baker's original query being...what is the best way to plan for your retirement boat? My advice is get the best time you can out of what you can get now, and decide on the retirement boat when you are actually there..!
After all, some may well find, even if money no object, that after doing this thing for a period, world travel is more fun than zooming round your local pond, however big that pond is...just sayin'
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Old 12-21-2015, 11:04 PM   #110
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Exactly!! We consider our boat as a part, not the main of our retirement. Living in our natural local constructed log house on the beach,burning a wood fire there are times that choosing between the boat or a glass of wine on the deck is a real challenge, one we truly enjoy. Now think how wonderful retirement is when we take that wine out on the boat and enjoy those voyages with the same settings from a different anchorage. We think our attitude allows having many different 'toys' the boat being a main one.
It is a case of living within your means and allocating assests to retirement joys!!

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Sun set from our deck.

[/URL][/IMG]

Al, to define "retirement boat" for this discussion....it would be a boat to cruise full time on. That was the intent of my post. If I was just going to live on land and take the boat out when the mood strikes, I'd keep the boat I have. Because that is exactly how I am living life currently...although not retired. I am averaging about 300 hours a year with a full time job.
Sorry, Didn't mean to be dissing the forum subject. Will back off and allow a more serious discussion on the specific merits of your original post. Forgive me for intruding. It was of my first attempts to post photos to

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Old 12-21-2015, 11:15 PM   #111
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You are way too early to know what boat you will need in your retirement.

It may be the one you have already. It may be larger, it may be smaller. It may be what you would now not even go to look at.

My point is, get retired first. Use your present boat to its max. See what you like about it. See what you don't like about it. See how much money you actually spend doing the lifestyle you see as your retirement lifestyle, then see how much you actually have for boating, including capital and ongoing costs.

You will be surprised at how different your retirement will be from what you envision now, both in what you can actually afford and in your attitude towards the cost of things that will make your retirement more enjoyable.

A year or two after you retire, report back. We need to know how it all works out.

Good luck!
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Old 12-22-2015, 12:23 AM   #112
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You are way too early to know what boat you will need in your retirement.
Frankly, John, I think what Ken (I assume the "k" in koliver is Ken but maybe not) wrote in his previous post is the best answer to your query in this thread. You're a smart guy or you wouldn't have succeeded in the career you've pursued so I suspect you would have figured all this out on your own.

But Ken just gave you the best picture of reality on this topic I've seen yet. I wish I could have written something so clearly and succinctly.

So print that one out and stick it in your Jeppesen approach plate/SID/STAR book unless the planes you fly have EFBs or your stuff is all on an iPad and read it every now and then.
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Old 12-22-2015, 12:32 AM   #113
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Baker, On second read- "Or is it just a boat that you own in your retirement years and have available for use for day trips or longer cruises?" a segment of your original post.

Would seem to fit the response regarding part time use over full time living given in my post. Not to belittle the matter, just to clarify that the 'opening'
was there, With that I will again retreat from the discussion

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Old 12-22-2015, 10:01 AM   #114
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Baker, On second read- "Or is it just a boat that you own in your retirement years and have available for use for day trips or longer cruises?" a segment of your original post.

Would seem to fit the response regarding part time use over full time living given in my post. Not to belittle the matter, just to clarify that the 'opening'
was there, With that I will again retreat from the discussion

Al-Ketchikan
No need to retreat, Al. Your contributions have equal weight and merit!!! Much appreciated!!
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Old 12-22-2015, 10:04 AM   #115
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Frankly, John, I think what Ken (I assume the "k" in koliver is Ken but maybe not) wrote in his previous post is the best answer to your query in this thread. You're a smart guy or you wouldn't have succeeded in the career you've pursued so I suspect you would have figured all this out on your own.

But Ken just gave you the best picture of reality on this topic I've seen yet. I wish I could have written something so clearly and succinctly.

So print that one out and stick it in your Jeppesen approach plate/SID/STAR book unless the planes you fly have EFBs or your stuff is all on an iPad and read it every now and then.
Well maybe.... But, like someone said, their boat found them before retirement...and everything worked out well. But I do understand the point here. I will likely get a boat(or maybe use the one I have) and just untie and go!!!... You can work on a boat anywhere!!! And you may as well do it somewhere warm and sunny(or in your case...cold and gloomy).

And yep, no more manuals or approach plates. Just an iPad. What an amazing blessing that thing is. It has improved my job 1000%.
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Old 12-22-2015, 10:38 AM   #116
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Baker, On second read- "Or is it just a boat that you own in your retirement years and have available for use for day trips or longer cruises?" a segment of your original post.

:
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No need to retreat, Al. Your contributions have equal weight and merit!!! Much appreciated!!
I also saw your post as perfectly appropriate Al! We also bought a smallish boat just after retirement...Realizing we had access to a beautiful area, and having been away from boating for years. We Day-trip and do short cruises. We won't ever be liveaboards. The convenience of having a boat we can easily handle, a short hop from our Dirt house works for us.
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Old 12-22-2015, 10:50 AM   #117
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Same here. Sixteen years since I left, but I still (and probably always will) tear up when I hear the Flag Song. Every year lately we do a week or two-week charter with another couple. This year might be Alaska (out of Juneau), if it works. Every time I go back to visit I want to kiss the ground like the Pope when he lands in a foreign country.
The Admiral has an expensive bottle wine we will crack open when we cross over from BC to Alaska....
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Old 12-22-2015, 11:16 AM   #118
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The Admiral has an expensive bottle wine we will crack open when we cross over from BC to Alaska....
We celebrated with great delight the first time we crossed the Dixon Entrance into Alaska, almost twenty years ago now, just before I retired. It was quite a milestone for us. In a dozen more times since, it never ceases to delight - Highly recommended!

Already planning the itinerary for this coming summer. The days are getting longer!
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Old 12-22-2015, 01:43 PM   #119
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The Admiral has an expensive bottle wine we will crack open when we cross over from BC to Alaska....
Hummmmm, As fast as you are, and if 'Dixon' like in 'Entrance" were agreeable, knowing you were in route it would be awesome to putt putt down towards say, Foggy Bay and share a drop of the grape. One never knows.

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Old 12-22-2015, 03:21 PM   #120
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I will likely get a boat(or maybe use the one I have) and just untie and go!!!... .
That seems the best course of action to me. We never know what will happen until it does. And what I've found over a long time of doing a huge variety of things all over the planet is that usually the thing you think will happen is the one thing that doesn't.
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