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Old 12-20-2015, 04:41 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by kthoennes View Post
One of the best posts ever, right there, on the well-trod topic of boat and toy financing. That debate comes up on nearly every boating forum at one time or another, and there's my rationale exactly. I don't disagree with the pay-cash guys for one second if you can do it, but I can relatively easily earn the payments now, I can do the maintenance and improvements now (both financially and physically), and I'm at the top of my earning power now. I'd rather be on the water now than sitting at home eating generic mac and cheese, all proud of myself that I'm self-disciplined with money and I'll be able to write a check for a boat someday.

The whole issue is discipline. If you are disciplined and the boat and time is right, it is an option. But you have be honest with yourself.


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Old 12-20-2015, 05:57 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by kthoennes View Post
One of the best posts ever, right there, on the well-trod topic of boat and toy financing. That debate comes up on nearly every boating forum at one time or another, and there's my rationale exactly. I don't disagree with the pay-cash guys for one second if you can do it, but I can relatively easily earn the payments now, I can do the maintenance and improvements now (both financially and physically), and I'm at the top of my earning power now. I'd rather be on the water now than sitting at home eating generic mac and cheese, all proud of myself that I'm self-disciplined with money and I'll be able to write a check for a boat someday.
YES!!! Thank You!

That sums it up nicely!
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Old 12-20-2015, 06:36 PM   #83
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The whole issue is discipline. If you are disciplined and the boat and time is right, it is an option. But you have be honest with yourself.


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Absolutely correct.

Very few have the disipline to look at a major purchase like a large boat, and actually save the money over the long period of time necessary to actually ever buy the boat. If they did, are they actually better off? Did they have more fun sitting at the kitchen table looking at their savings grow, vs sitting in the cockpit of their boat?

I think that many of the cash buyers are retirees that decide they want to buy a boat, and realize that they have saved enough in their investment accounts to buy it and still have a good retirement.

Other cash buyers are business owners, or folks that were in the right place at the right time with a startup company, and cashed out. I think there are very few wage earners that have the option of buying a large boat prior to retirement with cash.

Younger people, and wage earners that want a large boat have generally not reached the stage in life yet where they have the liquidity to buy the larger boat with cash, so they use the tools they have, IE promising their future earnings. These are not bad or financially undisiplined people, they are people that have had other things going on in life like homes, and kids, and the rest that life entails.

I for one am glad I have used my future earning power to get out on the water now, vs waiting until later in life. I have my health now. I have had my adventures yesterday and today. The future is not promised to any of us, so time spent wishing I had a boat would have been time I could never get back.

Yes my cost has been some interest. But then again I didn't spend the time analyzing my bank statements daydreaming about a large boat. I spent it on my actual boat daydreaming of what to bbq for dinner, and wondering what the whales I saw that day were thinking.
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Old 12-20-2015, 06:45 PM   #84
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Do it now

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I am 50 years old. I am staring down retirement...the sooner the better. Whether I am retirement worthy financially, is not what I am am asking about. What I am asking about is....WHEN do you purchase your retirement boat?? I know that is a broad question but there are many things to consider. If I were to retire at 55, do I get it now? And why get it earlier than later? Do I wait until I have the money built up to buy the dream boat potentially just months before retirement? Anyway, I know there are no hard and fast answers. Just looking for discussion on the folks that have been through this. If I was ready financially, I'd already be gone. I could easily retire and cruise on my current boat but it does lack storage....and...holy shit the engine space is a bitch to get around. I just wouldn't feel comfortable cruising a boat that I question myself as to the maintenance.

I always thought I'd retire on a Nordhavn or KK...and maybe I could if I delayed retirement some. But I also find mid forties Carvers(440,445,455,456,etc)to be extremely comfortable and represent a tremendous value...with more space in the ER(and C series Cummins) I also know people cruising them and they would work perfectly fine for what I would want to do. Anyway, just rambling here. I am not questioning the type of boat to retire on...just the thoughts that go into planning and more of a timeline of events.
I recommend you move on this now. We are at a nexus of very low long term interest rates and a pretty good used boat market. I would never buy a new boat again. Used boats between 4 and 10 years old tend to be best value.

We bought a 2007 Mariner/Helmsman 38 with only 420 Hours on engine. Saved over $180K over new. Spent about $30K on various upgrades. Net savings: $150K. Was able to get a 20 yr fixed rate marine mortgage at 3-5/8th % APR. Let the first/previous owner absorb the bulk of the depreciation, and remember, the longer you wait, the more your present boat will depreciate. When you buy a used boat, you should be prepared to plan on an additional 30% to get it prepared the way you want it. That may just as well apply to a new boat. It will probably take a year to get boat fully ready they way you want it, and for you to become familiar with all the operating systems.

A big issue to think about is that "ticking clock", by which I mean how many good years do you have left to enjoy the cruising life? No one ever knows, but I do know of people who had great cruising plans, but sudden unexpected health problems permanently ruined those plans. I read about a survey of terminally ill people. By far the majority of their regrets were about the things they DIDN'T do, not things they had done. You just don't know what tomorrow will bring.
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Old 12-20-2015, 08:46 PM   #85
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retirement boat

I purchased our first retirement boat at the age of 45 (WITH A GOAL OF RETIRING AT 55) and glade we did so. Our boat was a new Nordhavn 40 which we sold in 18 months before building another N40 then life happened and my wife became ill. Sold the boat, had a difficult 4 years before being able to get back on the water. We just started to build what may become our retirement boat (Helmsman 38 PG) at the age of 55. No way I can retire as planned for another five years if things go well.

Bottom line is buy the boat today and start enjoying life. There are no guarantees.

John T.
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Old 12-20-2015, 08:47 PM   #86
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I think one thing is being overlooked it telling Baker to go for it, not to wait or he'll miss out on something, and that is that he's not waiting. He has a boat and he's enjoying it. This isn't to have a boat or not. This is to move on to another boat or not. It's about a boat that he believes will fit his retirement needs better but may not fit his current needs any better.
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Old 12-21-2015, 01:48 AM   #87
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The retirement boat concept will be different from one person to the next, but some generalities will likely apply. Some thought processes for Baker and other in similar position to consider are:

1. How long can you liveaboard your current boat before needing a change. What drives you to the 'ok, time to get off for a bit' decision. Not enough storage space? Uncomfortable built-in settee? No washer/dryer or other household conveniences? The answers to these type of questions could well point you towards 'the right one'.

2. Retirement usually means less time pressure, so you can settle for a slower boat than your current one. Well, maybe. You can always have a Jetski or go-fast tender to satisfy 'need for speed'. A slower boat can be bigger and have all the on-board amenities you like. But can you live with a slow boat while you are still working? For many the better destinations are out of reach on a typical weekend in a slow boat. So getting a slow retirement boat too long before you retire might reduce your usage and spoil the pleasure. My slow boat is mostly OK, but it limits the time and frequency my young adult children are able to boat with me, as much as they enjoy it, simply because they have so much going on in their lives. Were I doing my refit again I would install double the HP so that I could go fast (well, say 20 kn) if I wanted too.

3. Who will be aboard when retired? Often its you and partner only. For friends/family you could say 'bring your own boat' rather than have a boat than is bigger than you need most of the time. But if there are going to be grandkids around and you really want a lot of time with them, then something with a few bunks in a second or third stateroom could be a priority.\

So it comes down to some honest thinking about where you will use the boat and how when retired. Once you think you have the style/size sorted, try some charters for preferably at least 2 weeks at a time to simulate the retirement situation, then at the end of the charter list what the issues/problems were. Given that selling a boat is normally a slow process and might involve taking a hit on the total money you have in the boat, its worth working really hard to find the right boat with your next purchase. You don't want to be making too many boat changeovers.
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Old 12-21-2015, 03:01 AM   #88
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I for one am glad I have used my future earning power to get out on the water now, vs waiting until later in life. I have my health now. I have had my adventures yesterday and today. The future is not promised to any of us, so time spent wishing I had a boat would have been time I could never get back.

Bang on!


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Old 12-21-2015, 06:36 AM   #89
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I for one am glad I have used my future earning power to get out on the water now, vs waiting until later in life. I have my health now. I have had my adventures yesterday and today. The future is not promised to any of us, so time spent wishing I had a boat would have been time I could never get back.
I agree!

My parents played by the rules, raised 4 kids, planned to retire at 65 and see the world. Dad needed a pacemaker at 62 and they then retired early with only a couple of years to travel before heart attacks, strokes, and a bunch of other aliments basically forced them to stay near home, the family doctor, and the hospital. Lessons learned: Life can change quickly, don't wait till the end for dessert. Old age is not for sissies!

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Old 12-21-2015, 10:21 AM   #90
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Did anyone ever say that a "retirement boat" means one that the person is going to live on full time? Is that what the term "retirement boat" means?

Or is it just a boat that you own in your retirement years and have available for use for day trips or longer cruises?
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Old 12-21-2015, 10:24 AM   #91
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Did anyone ever say that a "retirement boat" means one that the person is going to live on full time? Is that what the term "retirement boat" means?

Or is it just a boat that you own in your retirement years and have available for use for day trips or longer cruises?
Each to their own... and... Own to their each.
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Old 12-21-2015, 10:41 AM   #92
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I think one thing is being overlooked it telling Baker to go for it, not to wait or he'll miss out on something, and that is that he's not waiting. He has a boat and he's enjoying it. This isn't to have a boat or not. This is to move on to another boat or not. It's about a boat that he believes will fit his retirement needs better but may not fit his current needs any better.
Bingo!!! And thanks to everyone for their contribution to this thread. Y'all understood my question loudly and clearly. The boat I have right now really is a wonderful boat. It serves my pre retirement boating needs perfectly. Could I retire and cruise this boat??? Absolutely!!! If I was "forced" into retirement (by a health issue), I would likely keep this boat and make some (attitude) adjustments and be just fine. What got me thinking was that Carver that had sold...knowing I would've likely bought it on the spot because it was such a great deal. And also being tempted to label it "the boat" simply because I think those boats would make a great power cruiser for what most people use do when cruising under power. It was an amazing feeling when I thought such a boat could be had for such a great price and be able to provide a platform for the dreams I have always had. It was somewhat of an epiphany. And it was me coming to the realization that I am getting close to retirement and the cheaper the boat, the sooner I retire.

All of your responses are amazing and exactly the discussion I was looking for. Thanks again and keep it coming!!!
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Old 12-21-2015, 11:29 AM   #93
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What got me thinking was that Carver that had sold...knowing I would've likely bought it on the spot because it was such a great deal.

And another great deal will come along for you to consider when you are ready.


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Old 12-21-2015, 11:31 AM   #94
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Bingo!!! And thanks to everyone for their contribution to this thread. Y'all understood my question loudly and clearly. The boat I have right now really is a wonderful boat. It serves my pre retirement boating needs perfectly. Could I retire and cruise this boat??? Absolutely!!! If I was "forced" into retirement (by a health issue), I would likely keep this boat and make some (attitude) adjustments and be just fine. What got me thinking was that Carver that had sold...knowing I would've likely bought it on the spot because it was such a great deal. And also being tempted to label it "the boat" simply because I think those boats would make a great power cruiser for what most people use do when cruising under power. It was an amazing feeling when I thought such a boat could be had for such a great price and be able to provide a platform for the dreams I have always had. It was somewhat of an epiphany. And it was me coming to the realization that I am getting close to retirement and the cheaper the boat, the sooner I retire.

All of your responses are amazing and exactly the discussion I was looking for. Thanks again and keep it coming!!!
Wifey B: You'll know. You'll know when it's the boat. When it's time. Just grab hold with both hands when it is. We're doing well to know what tomorrow brings, much less five years. The key is always remaining ready to take advantage of whatever it offers and dreaming. Dreaming constantly of what the future might hold. I think retirement is like a super dream and goal. We were always really enjoying our lives but thinking ahead to that day. We had hopes when it would come. Thoughts of where we'd be and what boat. But we were loving our boat and life on the lake meanwhile. As to retirement, it didn't come when we thought it would, it didn't lead us where we thought it would. It was like suddenly here's your chance, you can do this, and we said "H..l yeah, let's do it."

Meanwhile I think everyone should be striving for more leisure time, more family time. Retirement is just gobs of it. But life is for living. The biggest change that came into my life when I grabbed my hubby and held on forever was I started dreaming. Suddenly, I was a dreamer and so was he. Didn't matter the dream, just that we always knew there was something ahead to look forward to. We dream of the loop, of Europe, of more of the Caribbean.

At this time of year too we have those dreams that seem so freaking futile sometimes. We dream of all kids having a reason to celebrate. We dream of no more pain and suffering of families, of homeless, of the elderly. We dream of tomorrow a little tiny bit better than today. We dream of peace on earth, goodwill toward men. Some days our dreams seem hopeless and shattered but we'll never stop dreaming. When I was a kid I didn't think so much of mankind. Ok, to most here I'm still a kid. I mean a really young kid like 18. Sometimes I still don't think a lot of mankind in a collective sense, but then I think of the people I know and have met. Good people everywhere, all around us. Think young people aren't good, then get off your butt and go meet some and befriend them. You'll find they're pretty super. The world is so messed up, but it's still filled with a lot of great people. Just keep dreaming.

Sorry I got off topic, but in some ways it's not. We live life day by day. We dream of the future, but we don't miss out on the present meanwhile. If it's the boat and it's time, we jump on it. But until then we just enjoy the heck out of what we've got. We dreamed of cruising the TN River. And we still will one day, just ocean popped up first. But we enjoyed every day we could get out in our runabout on the small lake we lived on.
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Old 12-21-2015, 11:43 AM   #95
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I was in the same position four years ago, unsure about when to buy a retirement boat. I had two years until retirement. Then a boat came on the market that was too good to pass on, so I bought it. It was owned in an LLC (no sales tax), three years old, 80 hours, two year old electronics, a dinghy that was never in the water, 20hp Honda, etc. The owner's health was failing and was unable to further enjoy the boat, forcing the sale at a very large discount to a similarly equipped new boat. Unfortunately, he had waited too long to get into boating. I have never regretted the timing of the purchase, but would have waited had this opportunity not been available.
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Old 12-21-2015, 11:46 AM   #96
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And it was me coming to the realization that I am getting close to retirement and the cheaper the boat, the sooner I retire.
Right there you defined the challenge.

Do you retire earlier with a more modest boat, or do you spring for the dream boat and then have to trade years of your life paying for it.

This concept applies whether you pay cash or borrow the money, it is still a time Vs the rewards that a new boat would bring.

Story time...

I was boat hunting years ago and called on a FSBO boat in Washington state. A gentleman answered the phone and told me his story.

He said he was a surgeon and had a dream of taking his boat to Alaska. He bought the boat in question and fitted it out for the trip. He said the best of everything, sparing no expense.

He said that unfortunately he waited too long, and that he had a stroke before he could make the trip. He was very sad about this, you could tell from his voice that it wrenched his heart.

Whatever you do, whatever your dreams, do not be that man.
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Old 12-21-2015, 01:13 PM   #97
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Ouch. Yeah. I don't want to be that guy.

I'm 50 and still have one kid to get off to college in two years, but after that I plan to do some cruising and live on the boat for a month or so at a time.

The wife really wants to get a bigger "retirement boat", but I would like to give my smallish, simple boat a go if possible because I have it pretty well sorted out and it's easy to handle.
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Old 12-21-2015, 01:29 PM   #98
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Ouch. Yeah. I don't want to be that guy.

I'm 50 and still have one kid to get off to college in two years, but after that I plan to do some cruising and live on the boat for a month or so at a time.

The wife really wants to get a bigger "retirement boat", but I would like to give my smallish, simple boat a go if possible because I have it pretty well sorted out and it's easy to handle.
That's a pretty damn neat boat you have there!!!!!

Here in Galveston Bay, there is an island called Redfish Island. It lays along the Houston Ship Channel and was created by the spoil from dredging the channel. The Channel itself acts as a (mental) barrier to most and the vast majority of the boating around here is bordered by Redfish Island and the HSC....so much so that I refer to the HSC as "the edge of the world"...because nobody really goes beyond it...they go right up to it and turn around/tack and go back the other way. Well I friend and songwriter wrote a song about this and I will post two verses below as well as the chorus in between. It definitely brings home the point about timing and our mortality....



She's a good boat and she's sturdy
And I know she'd pass the test
I've fitted her out perfectly
I know she's the best
And patiently she waits for me
She's ready I can tell
But her body's never felt the ocean swell

It's a long way from Redfish to the Islands
It could take a week or more
And there could be a storm
No I don't wanna die on Redfish Island
So just push me to the Gulf and set me free
'Cause that's the only way I'll live my dream

It was Saturday they told me
About Jimmy down the dock
How a heart attack had stopped him dead
I thought about our talk
He swore that in a year he planned
To lay his lawbooks down
Now his boat's for sale and Jimmy's in the ground


Trawler on,
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Old 12-21-2015, 02:20 PM   #99
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Did anyone ever say that a "retirement boat" means one that the person is going to live on full time? Is that what the term "retirement boat" means?

Or is it just a boat that you own in your retirement years and have available for use for day trips or longer cruises?[/QUOTE]

Exactly!! We consider our boat as a part, not the main of our retirement. Living in our natural local constructed log house on the beach,burning a wood fire there are times that choosing between the boat or a glass of wine on the deck is a real challenge, one we truly enjoy. Now think how wonderful retirement is when we take that wine out on the boat and enjoy those voyages with the same settings from a different anchorage. We think our attitude allows having many different 'toys' the boat being a main one.
It is a case of living within your means and allocating assests to retirement joys!!

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[/URL][/IMG][QUOTE=WesK;397533]

For our road trips through B.C.Canada/golfing outings
[/URL][/IMG]
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Old 12-21-2015, 02:28 PM   #100
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Exactly!! We consider our boat as a part, not the main of our retirement. Living in our natural local constructed log house on the beach,burning a wood fire there are times that choosing between the boat or a glass of wine on the deck is a real challenge, one we truly enjoy. Now think how wonderful retirement is when we take that wine out on the boat and enjoy those voyages with the same settings from a different anchorage. We think our attitude allows having many different 'toys' the boat being a main one.
It is a case of living within your means and allocating assests to retirement joys!!

]
We spend 2/3 of our time cruising and about 260-280 days a year doing something on the water. We are making our annual Christmas trip by car tomorrow but we don't go on vacations or sightseeing by car. Each figures out what they enjoy and labels and definitions only complicate things.
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