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Old 09-30-2015, 07:00 PM   #21
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Tom, I'm going to PM you with the name of a Portland mechanic who I had come down to the boat one time when were down there for a few days. He's quick, he's good, and I felt he was reasonable.


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Old 09-30-2015, 07:37 PM   #22
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I agree, Bill.
My concern with leaving any packing in there is that stuffing boxes tend to be forgotten about, until...

Who knows how long ago the existing packing was done and if it was all replaced and I've seen old packing get hard enough to score shafts.

It's a cheap fix, do it right. Right? Right.
Not really meaning to argue, but many industrial pumps with deep packing glands have the first four or five rings retrofitted with a throat bushing made out of a plastic or resinous material because the packing really doesn't do anything but create drag and provide a minimal radial restriction.

I agree that if it is overcompressed and riding on the shaft, then it may cause wear.

If you get a mechanic to come to the boat, the apprentice idea is a good one. Packing maintainance is a good owner skill set to have.
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Old 09-30-2015, 07:48 PM   #23
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I love drip-less shaft seals and who recommend installing them, BUT........

I would only take on their installation in conjunction with a known yard and with plenty of time to allow for things to go wrong or if the job expands. When you start digging into a drive line, you could easily find yourself replacing cutlass bearings, replacing a pitted shaft, rebalancing props, realigning engines, etc. etc. etc.. I'd want to be in a place and have time to deal with that if needed. You are on the move if I remember correctly, so I would NOT do it now, but rather wait until a better time/place.

For now, I'd just repack and keep going.
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Old 09-30-2015, 07:55 PM   #24
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I would just pull out all the old packing, repack with GFO and get it over with. Use the real Gore Tex GFO. There is a difference from all I've seen.

It's not a big deal and there is no reason to cheap out and just replace one ring of the old packing.

All the old, hard packing I've ever replaced all looked equally compressed. So I don't buy that the first rings get the most compression. Maybe in the beginning. But over time as the box gets re-tightened it seems they all get crushed and worn out.
What is the expected life of Gore Tex GFO? That is if one were to repack with it, how long before repacking is again required?
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Old 09-30-2015, 08:04 PM   #25
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Not really meaning to argue, but many industrial pumps with deep packing glands have the first four or five rings retrofitted with a throat bushing made out of a plastic or resinous material because the packing really doesn't do anything but create drag and provide a minimal radial restriction.

I agree that if it is overcompressed and riding on the shaft, then it may cause wear.

If you get a mechanic to come to the boat, the apprentice idea is a good one. Packing maintainance is a good owner skill set to have.
Aw, spy yer not arguing and I agree with you in the industrial setting where usually the mechanical people have a higher level of learning and experience than the average unknown bilge wrencher on a forum...not you Jim.

What's left of that little mill down the road from you, once had a million glands and I bet I packed every one up to #9 machine.
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Old 09-30-2015, 08:07 PM   #26
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Professionally: I would just hire a local mechanic to repack the rings (and look over his shoulder on how to do it.)

Personally: I would install DSS. But the caveat with DSS is you MUST maintain the hose(s) and the rubber collar(s) every couple years. If you let the rubber seals go then the benefit of DSS is mitigated.

The original wax.ptfe rope shaft packing is just about goof proof. But it requires some maintenance. But the DSS requires less maintenance but more set up. The subject of repacking is about comfort and confidence in your ability to repack a bearing. If you loosen the packing locknut and nut and remove the gland, you may see a sudden flow of water. BUT you may not see an appreciable increase. If you have packing precut and stuff it into the gland, with one or two rings you will see the water inflow drop precipitously. If you are uncomfortable with the possibility, then hire a mechanic to assist you as mentioned.

I have used a diver to stuff wax rings around the cutlass bearing or through hull to stop the water inflow to ease the water pressure on the stuffingbox. BUT..... your confidence is what determines how you proceed.

The thread drift is indicative of another topic. If your packing gland is getting pretty close to bottoming out, then you should (prior to bottoming out) loosen and add more packing to bring the packing collar back out to flush. These packing glands are pretty basic in that they just need more rows of packing added prior to "NO" packing left.
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Old 09-30-2015, 08:40 PM   #27
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What is the expected life of Gore Tex GFO? That is if one were to repack with it, how long before repacking is again required?
Don't know an exact number. But it's good for years and years. I seen it 5 years old and still looking and working just fine.
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Old 09-30-2015, 09:52 PM   #28
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What is the expected life of Gore GFO? That is if one were to repack with it, how long before repacking is again required?
Who cares how long it lasts. The stuff is sold by the pound. You can stock up for YEARS for short money , if you are going to remote parts.
I think I would go for the Duramax instead , but that is only a personal choice.
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Old 09-30-2015, 09:58 PM   #29
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Thanks. Got it. Will give him a call
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Old 09-30-2015, 10:00 PM   #30
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RePack or Dripless Shaft Seals?

I expected GFO on pumps to last 35000 hrs (4 years) running at shaft speeds of 1413 fpm.

So virtually forever on a recreational boat. Mines been in for over 7 years. Pre-engine swap, so a few hundred hours.
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Old 09-30-2015, 10:47 PM   #31
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Can someone recommend a mechanic in the Portland OR area that would be willing to come out to the boat?
I've not had any direct experience with these folks but you might contact Schooner Creek. I've heard good words about them and they seem to have a good boatyard. Just a suggestion.

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Old 09-30-2015, 10:57 PM   #32
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Something I found when I re packed mine, somebody had used a graphite-impregnated stuffing, which is fine in theory but checkout where carbon sits on the electrolysis scale. My stuffing box metal was deteriorating and I caught it just in time. YMMV
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Old 09-30-2015, 11:31 PM   #33
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The yard in our harbor recommends flax for standard packing glands. They will install the Gore and other "synthetic" materials if an owner requests them but they don't recommend them. The reason is that if the packing gland overheats the synthetics turn into "plastic," become brittle, and break.

Now if one is conscientious about monitoring the adjustment and temperature of the packing gland(s), no problem. But apparently most boaters don't do this, and the yard has made a fair amount of money replacing synthetic packing material that has overheated and failed.

As to how long packing lasts, I have no idea. But the flax in our packing glands has gone some 12 or 13 years with no problems. By which I mean no dripping underway or at rest and the packing glands run dead cold. And the owner of a sailboat in our club (former chief engineer at Uniflite) has had the flax packing in his boat for more than a couple of decades with no issues to date.
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Old 09-30-2015, 11:37 PM   #34
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The melting point of PTFE is 620F.

That is why frying pans are coated with it.
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Old 09-30-2015, 11:53 PM   #35
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We did ours in the water and the sound of an ocean trying to rush into our boat was very disconcerting

Before starting we tore strips of cloth and cut a bicycle inner tube into strips as well. Once opened up and the water started flowing, cloth strips were tied tight around the shaft and jammed to stop the water flowing in, then the rubber inner tube strips were tied over the cloth strips to keep them in place.

Once this was done the job went at a smooth, relaxed pace.
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Old 10-01-2015, 12:00 AM   #36
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Drip less packing systems CAN leak, check out the videos on u tube

https://youtu.be/GXbG9Ws5HqE

The bellows can leak too, possible salvage liability if bad. Any repairs and installation require haul out.

You can get traditional packing anywhere, PSS parts could delay your cruise and cost $$. Easy choice IMO.
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Old 10-01-2015, 04:21 AM   #37
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Duramax is good stuff. Been in my sporty for about 5 years, no problems, no leaks. Got kinda hot during the first hour of operation but some adjustments fixed that. It was a little tight. Marin, how did that "chief engineer for uniflite" job work out for your friend ?
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Old 10-01-2015, 06:43 AM   #38
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Be sure to leave the packing nut loose and leaking until it has been run in. Even with the goretex or teflon. You should be able to do the initial run at idle in the slip. Then tighten down in steps. Its too easy to overtighten initially which causes overheat and shaft scoring.
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Old 10-01-2015, 06:57 AM   #39
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Its probably better to have someone , with experience observe the first time you do it there.

You will need the corkscrew puller if there is much depth to the stuffing box, $10-$15 at worst marine.

You wrap a stuffing material a turn around the shaft and use a razor to cut each ring with the ends being at a 30 or 45 deg angle, just not square.

Purchase a foot or so of plastic pipe with the inside diameter the same as your shaft size.

Cut it in half the long way with a jig saw or hand hacksaw.

The drill is to pull of the end nut and use a SS toothbrush to clean what threads you can see.

Cut as many rings as you will need or MORE so there is no fumbling.

Pull the packing out and when you get the last one there will be a nice inrush of water.

Wrap a pre cut ring and put it in the space and then use the 2 parts of the plastic tubing to push it square as far as it will go.

Keep doing that with the cut ends NOT in line until the space is packed.

Sometimes the first ring , sometimes the second will hold back the water so it is dripping but not rushing into the boat.

Reinstall the end compressor nut or fitting and you want it snug but not tight.

When you are done there will be no dripping.Start the engine and adjust as the shaft spins.

At the first outing the nut may need to be tightened as the material conforms to the spinning shaft.

Again , just stop the drip underway.

Underway the fitting will be barely warm if at all when tightened properly.

After a month check there are no drips .

Enjoy
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Old 10-01-2015, 09:06 AM   #40
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Good, easy to follow how to, FF.
Only thing I would add is if the chaser/follower is held in place by two or more nuts, they be tightened alternately on opposite sides like wheel nuts.
And the handy tools.
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