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Old 03-06-2016, 05:40 PM   #21
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Thanks Everyone! and no worries Pete hijack away I'm praying Peggie can solve the dilemma without ripping anything out? will update when successful!
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Old 03-06-2016, 10:20 PM   #22
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That was a pretty serious Jackin. Good info all around but kinda hard to keep up with. Good to here from Peg, she's a sweety.
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Old 03-06-2016, 10:34 PM   #23
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I agree with Bill...The Dometic/SeaLand T-Series pump (see the link in his post) would also be my choice. It's a diaphragm pump, not a macerator pump, but it's not necessary to macerate tank contents because solids and TP dissolve quickly in water. Because it is a diaphragm pump, it can run dry without harm for considerably longer than just the few seconds that an impeller pump can. It does cost considerably more than an impeller macerator pump, but a couple of impeller replacements eats up that difference.

However, to answer your question...yes the Jabsco macerator pump will prime and is higher quality than TMC
Thanks Ranger, Capt Bill, and Peggy. Good advice all. Now to work up the motivation...
Oh, yes, and best of luck George, the OP. Hope it all works out fine without having to go for that compost heap...I mean toilet, sorry...
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Old 03-07-2016, 08:08 AM   #24
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Raritan CH should work...for $113/gallon, it BETTER work! Sew Clean is the same thing for $77/gal, which is still a lot to spend--plus the price of a new impeller only to find out that's not all that's preventing the macerator pump from working. IMO, you'd come out way ahead replacing the pump...or, considering how little use it can get, removing it altogether.

Yeah, didn't realize that stuff is that expensive. For not much more than that CH kind of money I can almost replace the pump with a new one (~$145).

Or less, if once we replace our fishbox macerator with a new one and find our original fishbox macerator only needs a new impeller.

My preference will be the Purasan HNT anyway; we'll see if the bank is up to that once I get some estimates.

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Old 03-07-2016, 08:11 AM   #25
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Thanks Everyone! and no worries Pete hijack away I'm praying Peggie can solve the dilemma without ripping anything out? will update when successful!

If anyone can, Peggie's probably first on the list!

Your boat isn't that old, I wouldn't leap to suspect hose permeation... would guess more like something simple like a loose fitting or two, maybe vent odor coming back into the boat after flushing, etc. Could be easy.

But, yes, it'll help everyone knowing whatever you find and learning your solution...

-Chris
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Old 03-07-2016, 10:11 AM   #26
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Your boat isn't that old, I wouldn't leap to suspect hose permeation... -Chris
Permeated hoses are the FIRST thing to check no matter how new the boat or how long ago hoses were replaced. Single wall flex PVC hose--#148, which is the least expensive so-called "standard" sanitation hose and what most builders use--can be ok for years or permeate very quickly...and there's no predicting it. It had been on my SeaRay for 7 years without a trace of odor....permeated on the Trojan F32 I was restoring in less than 90 days. I went nuts trying to find the leak that I was sure HAD to be the source of the odor and finally tested it for permeation 'cuz it was the only thing left to try....and I've heard many similar stories. Price is no guarantee either...I've personally been on at least half a dozen boats and heard of many more on which SeaLand's highly touted "OdorSafe" hose has permeated in less than a year. People who've tried to save money by going with hot tub hose from box hardware stores for $1.50/ft have found out the hard way that it may LOOk just like #148 white sanitation hose, but it's not.

So never jump to the conclusion that the boat or the hoses are too new to be permeated.

Btw, Chris...Parks Masterson--"HopCar" here--owns Hopkins Carter marine supply in Ft Lauderdale and gives forum members very discounts. I recommend you ask him for quote for your PuraSan system.
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Old 03-07-2016, 10:16 AM   #27
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But if cheap hose is 1/5 the cost and the expensive stuff can permeate in less than a year....for the easy to replace sections (that cant use good old PVC pipe) It may not be out of the question to try and see which permeates first.... the good or the cheap.
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Old 03-07-2016, 10:44 AM   #28
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Never understood going cheap on materials when either the cost of labor or your time and effort are significantly greater. For my 2 head system, a 50' roll of Trident #101 premium sanitation hose was all that was required from heads to holding tank. Think I had less than $350 in the hose.

Don't remember if it's been mentioned, but flushing water through the system makes everything last longer. If you're flush stingy, you pay the price later.

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Old 03-07-2016, 10:53 AM   #29
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Never understood going cheap on materials when either the cost of labor or your time and effort are significantly greater. For my 2 head system, a 50' roll of Trident #101 premium sanitation hose was all that was required from heads to holding tank. Think I had less than $350 in the hose.

Don't remember if it's been mentioned, but flushing water through the system makes everything last longer. If you're flush stingy, you pay the price later.

Ted
Only if going more expensive is guaranteed to work better.

I have found way too much that often isn't true in the marine industry.

If I know it for a fact...you are absolutely right...as long as you can afford the better at the time.
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Old 03-07-2016, 11:02 AM   #30
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But if cheap hose is 1/5 the cost and the expensive stuff can permeate in less than a year....for the easy to replace sections (that cant use good old PVC pipe) It may not be out of the question to try and see which permeates first.... the good or the cheap.
If you want to swap out hoses in 90 degree heat--'cuz hot weather is when odors are at their worst--it's ok with me. But I wouldn't do it again!

Not ALL the "expensive" hose permeates. Trident #101/102 (identical except for color) has been on the market for nearly 20 years without a single reported odor permeation failure.and for an average price of $7.50-$8/ft isn't THAT expensive. It has only one drawback: it's stiff as an ironing board, which requires using inline radius fittings for tight turns. Raritan introduced their Saniflex hose about 6 years ago...not a single permeation failure so far and it's so flexible it can make a U-turn. But it IS expensive: list price is $14/ft. Hard PVC doesn't permeate but is only recommended for long straight runs 'cuz bends that any hose can make easily require radius unions, and every one of those becomes a potential leak.

And btw...NEVER heat a hose to make it bend tighter than it will bend willingly. That will cause the outside of the radius to stretch and tear, damage the inside of it enough to result in a kink (see photo).
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Old 03-07-2016, 11:05 AM   #31
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Only if going more expensive is guaranteed to work better.
Thought that was assumed. Also happy to pay less if it's an equal or better solution.

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Old 03-07-2016, 12:02 PM   #32
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Permeated hoses are the FIRST thing to check no matter how new the boat or how long ago hoses were replaced.

Btw, Chris...Parks Masterson--"HopCar" here--owns Hopkins Carter marine supply in Ft Lauderdale and gives forum members very discounts. I recommend you ask him for quote for your PuraSan system.

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Not ALL the "expensive" hose permeates. Trident #101/102 (identical except for color) has been on the market for nearly 20 years without a single reported odor permeation failure.and for an average price of $7.50-$8/ft isn't THAT expensive. It has only one drawback: it's stiff as an ironing board, which requires using inline radius fittings for tight turns. Raritan introduced their Saniflex hose about 6 years ago...not a single permeation failure so far and it's so flexible it can make a U-turn.

Fair enough, I defer to your experience. But I've not yet -- ever, to my knowledge -- been on a boat with obvious head odor, where the cause was hose permeation.

And George's Mainship is relatively young, only a year older than our ride.

Maybe I've only been on boats with Trident 101/102.



Thanks for the reminder about HopCar; I've already been in contact with Parks, and its one favorable approach. I'm needing to compare parts prices verses and installed system, still stuck in that loop as we speak...

-Chris
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Old 03-07-2016, 12:39 PM   #33
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But I've not yet -- ever, to my knowledge -- been on a boat with obvious head odor, where the cause was hose permeation.

That's because boat odors aren't ALL in your head! And odors are always strongest at their source. If it really is HEAD odor--odor that's pretty much confined to the head compartment, the source can be dead and decaying animal or vegetable sea life trapped in the head intake, pump and/or channel in the rim of the bowl...or a shower sump in desperate need of cleaning.

A wet dirty bilge or trapped water somewhere can make a whole boat smell like a swamp or even a sewer. It's a "soft" swampy/sewer odor.

A sharp sewer/chemical odor that's strongest in the areas where the hose run through can only be permeated hoses.

A boat can still stink after hoses have been replaced if the odor from the hoses has attached itself to surfaces in the areas the hoses run through.
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Old 03-07-2016, 02:31 PM   #34
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"But I've not yet -- ever, to my knowledge -- been on a boat with obvious head odor, where the cause was hose permeation."

Neither have I except on my own boat. I replaced the hose and the problem went away.


With the cost of quality sanitation hose, I pulled out all the old hose and measured it so I didn't have to buy more than I needed. I did buy a foot or so more just to be safe.
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Old 03-07-2016, 04:32 PM   #35
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That's because boat odors aren't ALL in your head!

Yep, absolutely. We made a list in our owners club once of all the things we could think of that cause odors, many of which are attributed to head stuff, even if incorrectly.

I think the list was 28 or 32 lines long, or some such...

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Old 03-07-2016, 04:36 PM   #36
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"...that cause odors,"

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Old 03-07-2016, 04:41 PM   #37
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Once again, RT, you crack me up!


And so effortlessly, too!





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Old 03-07-2016, 05:13 PM   #38
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Thought that was assumed. Ted
Not necessarily... Shields claims their $15+/ft "PolyX" hose has a "lifetime" warranty against odor permeation. Since the average working life of ANY hose--water, sanitation, fuel, exhaust--is only about 10 years before the rubber etc becomes dried out enough for it to become brittle enough to start cracking, that's a pretty short "lifetime" for more than twice the price of Trident 101/102.
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Old 03-07-2016, 05:26 PM   #39
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I have to wonder if a sanitation hose has a lifetime (or any) warranty against permeation, do you have to send it back to the manufacturer for warranty replacement like you do with most products?
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Old 03-07-2016, 05:55 PM   #40
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Not typically. But you do need proof of purchase. If you installed it yourself, ONLY the hose is covered...no reimbursement for your labor.

"Standard" (#148 flex pvc) sanitation has only a 1 yr warranty against odor permeation. The better quality hoses, except for Shields Poly X, typically have a 5 yr warranty...although a few of what I call "2nd tier" hoses have a 3 yr warranty.
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