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Old 11-20-2014, 03:02 AM   #21
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Wayfarer, you mention that you're looking for a "liveaboard"... will you be a full-time cruiser or tied to the dock? It makes a difference in where you spend your budget -- creature comforts or systems reliability. With a LOA of 42' you can't beat the KK 42 for spacious digs.
As of right now, I'm thinking of following a seasonal migration. All of my family is in the central NY area, so I'd probably spend a good chunk of the spring and summer in or around the Finger Lakes and Canals of NY. I'd like to spend a bunch of time in the St. Lawrence as well. When fall starts, I'm thinking of working my way down the coast at a leisurely pace, and finding somewhere warm to cruise in FL or the Caribbean.

At some point, I'd like to make the trip through the Panama Canal and over to the west coast.

So I guess the answer is that I'd prefer to cruise. Maybe not full time, but as often as possible. I'd focus first on making any upgrades or repairs to systems that I'd need for cruising first, then any extra creature comforts as time and money allow.
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Old 11-20-2014, 03:09 AM   #22
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Thank you everybody for the replies. I really appreciate your insights. This whole idea of selling out and moving aboard is very exciting, but it also seems like a big gamble. I honestly don't know If I can afford to do it. My heart says go for it, you only live once, but my wallet wants me to move back in with my parents. Sometimes I think I'm crazy for dreaming about doing something like this. Other times I think I might be crazy not to.

I think I'm going to go look at her. It doesn't hurt to look, right!?
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Old 11-20-2014, 06:05 AM   #23
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WAYFARER, as someone who has done a fairly extensive refit of my boat, I think that boat is certainly worth a serious look. It looks like it have been reasonably well-maintained. The fit and finish is not too bad. How extensive the re-fit needs to be is very much a personal value issue. I learnt early to be willing to accept imperfection as long as everything looked ok, worked, and was safe. Purely cosmetic stuff is not that expensive or hard to do yourself. Having everything in the way of finishings and furnishings new is all very well, looks nice - feels nice, but is it necessary..?

When we bought our boat, our initial reaction was in certain cases…for example the squab/seating covering material..."ok, well that'll have to go"…same for the hot water cylinder, "that looks really crappy, that'll have to go". Well, it did - eventually - but only 6 years on, because it still worked. The upholstery is still the same. We got used to it. It all depends how fussy you are. As I just said recently in another post on another thread, where I got 12 yrs out of a pump impeller.."if it ain't broke, don't fix it." You can save a heap that way..and if you don't plan to cross oceans...
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Old 11-20-2014, 06:13 AM   #24
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"I'm pretty certain that it's a cored hull" - The good news is that it will be foam cored. It will stand a good bit of abuse until you get around to repairing it if need be.

"There was mention of a 'small soft spot' in the deck all the way forward, near the windlass. I've turned down boats for similar issues before.

As far as the teak goes, is it fairly obvious when it's gone bad? I assume it goes soft and rots like any other wood, right?" - The decks are wood cored so if the teak is leaking it can rot the wood and delaminate them. If the teak is worn down to the screws and the caulking separated then there may be trouble under it. It generally doesn't rot just wears down to a nub and leaks through its seams, fastener holes, deck fill fittings and other hardware.

Removing the teak and repairing the decks is a pretty big job. From what I have seen one of the tougher to get right.
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Old 11-20-2014, 06:14 AM   #25
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Definitely go and look. I think it might be doable. Interior looks nice enough to stay aboard while you work.

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Originally Posted by Wayfarer View Post
Thank you everybody for the replies. I really appreciate your insights. This whole idea of selling out and moving aboard is very exciting, but it also seems like a big gamble. I honestly don't know If I can afford to do it. My heart says go for it, you only live once, but my wallet wants me to move back in with my parents. Sometimes I think I'm crazy for dreaming about doing something like this. Other times I think I might be crazy not to.

I think I'm going to go look at her. It doesn't hurt to look, right!?
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Old 11-20-2014, 09:19 AM   #26
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Do you want to actually go boating or spend decades not boating? I've watched boatyards full of skinny young long haired enthusiastic dreamers turn into old fat bald guys working on their dream boats and die before ever splashing them. Riverbend and Summerfields in Ft. Lauderdale used to be a great place to watch dreams die. Now you can go to Indiantown, Stuart and North Ft. Pierce to see the same.
If it's the former you should just buy a smaller good boat that fits your purchase budget and go cruising before you run out of time. There's a couple cruising a Bayliner 38 down in Central America. I sold a guy a gorgeous Wellcraft Portifino (3208s)sight unseen off of Ebay for fifty something thousand and he ran it from Miami to Curacao during hurricane season with no problem. Was it a "passagemaker"? No, it was an express. Did it make passage? Hell yeah.

If it's a project your after, then do a classic car as it will be worth more when your finished.
Marinas in Colombia, Venezuela, Mexico, and Central America are full of boats that came there on their bottoms, and very few are "passagemakers".
It's not the boat that makes the difference, looking for 'the right one' is the excuse that stops most people from ever going. You can do the loop in a gas powered cruiser if you want, and with one of those you can go against the current in clockwise direction if you like. Yeah gas cost more to burn than diesel, but most modern cheap cruisers cruise over 30 mph. Again-which is worth more-TIME or money?

BTW- most project boats can be had for free, or you can get the owners to pay you to take them away. The whole idea of paying for one is ludicrous unless it has scrap value, and you had better have the ways and means of scrapping her. Should you even take one for free? Hell No!
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Old 11-20-2014, 09:49 AM   #27
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Do you want to actually go boating or spend decades not...

Blake's first line is where the rubber meets the road.

What's your hobby?

And stop using the word investment when referring to a boat, unless you're a builder or broker it's not an investment. At least not a profitable one.

Wayfarer, you mentioned recouping part of your money in one of your above replies. Be advised you will not recoup any of it if you fail to complete it as you describe your house. Craigslist is full of incomplete projects.
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Old 11-20-2014, 10:22 AM   #28
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Blake's first line is where the rubber meets the road.

What's your hobby?

And stop using the word investment when referring to a boat, unless you're a builder or broker it's not an investment. At least not a profitable one.

Wayfarer, you mentioned recouping part of your money in one of your above replies. Be advised you will not recoup any of it if you fail to complete it as you describe your house. Craigslist is full of incomplete projects.

Yes, Blake and Craig have nailed it. Buying a larger vessel like a KK 42 is not a task for the faint hearted or under financed. Bottom line as I see it, if you can't afford to lose the money you put into a boat, don't put it in.
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Old 11-20-2014, 10:31 AM   #29
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Bottom line as I see it, if you can't afford to lose the money you put into a boat, don't put it in.
That is exactly the way we viewed it when we bought our 30 year old Taiwanese Tub Classic.
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Old 11-20-2014, 10:49 AM   #30
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Love the KK42, but if you are not a handi-guy and budget is tight I think this will put a lot of pressure on you and not in a good way. The service level (ICW) of the boat you outline in how you want to use it, you don't really need as robust of a boat like a KK, many other brands etc that would fit this bill and due to the market can be had for a reasonable price, just my 2 cents knocking around boats and I know what its like owning something I really couldn't afford, not fun.
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Old 11-20-2014, 12:05 PM   #31
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Love the KK42, but if you are not a handi-guy and budget is tight I think this will put a lot of pressure on you and not in a good way. The service level (ICW) of the boat you outline in how you want to use it, you don't really need as robust of a boat like a KK, many other brands etc that would fit this bill and due to the market can be had for a reasonable price, just my 2 cents knocking around boats and I know what its like owning something I really couldn't afford, not fun.
Well said.

Now, I looked at Gulliver three years ago. And while it was already priced well below the boat we ended up buying, it was TOO much of a project boat for me.

However, if you can buy it right, I'd certainly have a survey done.
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Old 11-20-2014, 12:52 PM   #32
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An insurance survey is totally useless for a buyer. It only reports that the boat might not sink that week after a check list of items like float switches and bilge pumps are fixed. An insurance company wants to know that a $50 bilge pump works, not if it needs a $10,000 teak deck removal.
One of the brokers in my office at Rex Yachts around 10 years ago had a listing on a KK42 with twin engines, it might have been hull number 1 of the 42s. The concern with that boat was the cabin construction of fiberglass over plywood. When (not if) water gets into the plywood it can cause havoc.
It is much better to find a boat that someone else poured money into but now has to sell.
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Old 11-20-2014, 12:55 PM   #33
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Personally, I would get the newest boat I could afford that has the main items I want. I refitted a 38' sail boat. It took me 5 years and I never finished. I had to sell the boat unfinished, therefore less money. I wont do that again. I would rather make a monthly payment and use the boat. Any boat will need TLC and/or upgrading. Unless your 30 yrs old and full of piss and vinegar, I would opt for spending the money up front. Just my opinion. I have seen successful refits and the owner was very proud, but very few.
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Old 11-20-2014, 02:34 PM   #34
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Lots of good advice here already. To address this particular boat I will add that while the KK42 model is a very popular boat all are not equal. These boats were produced over a lot of years and significant changes to the materials and production methods. The early boats like this one have some features that make them more prone to serious wood rot possibilities. That teak deck on the bow can be covering a plywood "core" that is mush..... The other thing that makes me wary of this boat is that it has been on the market for a while. KK42s will sell quickly when priced right and in reasonable shape. The price isn't bad so..........
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Old 11-20-2014, 08:05 PM   #35
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Wayfarer, if you do decide to go have a look, go armed with Marine Survey 101
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Old 11-21-2014, 01:37 AM   #36
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I bought my boat about six months ago. There havent been any major surprises except an issue with the stern thruster. There were issues going into it that i knew would have to be addressed from the survey. My guestimate for the items on the survey were a little more time and money than i had initially figured, but i was not that far off. But there have been copius amounts of small issues slipped through the survey. I expect this is fairly common- a pump stops working, mysterious wiring issue with light, battery not charging properly, hard to find lighbulb blown, getting cables made up to hoist dinghy, fixing windshield wiper motors, and more. These little items have added up to an unexpected amount of time and money. Boat repairs arent that difficult but often require research (thank you TF), ordering online, phone calls to suppliers, waiting for deliveries, multiple trips to boat and back, etc.
A KK is a great boat, but like most boats, its only great if its in great shape.
If i were you, id be asking myself if i might be biting off more than i could chew (or want to chew) either in time, or money, or both. If you want to go boating, consider starting with a smaller boat in pristine shape that you are sure you can afford with the money you have. You can always sell and buy a bigger boat later if you find you love it. Save your time for boating, not working on your boat. Even a boat in great condition will require lots of your time and effort to maintain, never mind major projects.
Good luck!
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Old 11-21-2014, 02:14 AM   #37
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KK is not the only brand of 40' ish boat out there.

It is also not the cheapest.

I'd bet if you looked at other brands you could find a very well maintained boat of about the same size within your budget.

As Blake said There is a couple that cruised the Bahamas, then took their 38' Bayliner over to Honduras.

The boat does not define the cruising ability (except for crossing oceans), the captain does.
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Old 11-21-2014, 06:20 AM   #38
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>The concern with that boat was the cabin construction of fiberglass over plywood. When (not if) water gets into the plywood it can cause havoc.<

The horror of all TT boats.

Initial selling price does not lessen the problem as most are built the same.
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Old 11-21-2014, 11:48 AM   #39
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Even a boat in great condition will require lots of your time and effort to maintain....


Amen
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Old 11-21-2014, 12:05 PM   #40
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I bought a "new" boat in September and have been gutting it ever since.
1st photo is the excess wire I pulled yesterday, this was my third day of pulling improper gauge, incorrect colour coded, improperly connected (owner always wondered why his battery would never charge from the alternator) and downright dangerous wiring.
2nd photo is a red conductor going to the negative bus bar.
3rd photo is a water pump breaker with conductors marked VHF
4th photo is crappy windows being removed (first 3 of 16).
Are you up to this ? it's my third time and these photos just scratch the surface.
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