Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 10-06-2013, 08:25 PM   #161
Veteran Member
 
drf6's Avatar
 
City: Erie, PA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LIBERTY
Vessel Model: Pilgrim 40
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 55
Induction Range

The induction range is from True Induction..... http://www.trueinduction.com/dualburner.aspx

The boat came to us with a Force 10 propane unit. It is now living out its last days as an outdoor stove in somebodies back yard.
Click image for larger version

Name:	P1040021.jpg
Views:	232
Size:	133.5 KB
ID:	23454

With new solid surface counter tops we have more counter space.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20130601_173334_598.jpg
Views:	220
Size:	73.7 KB
ID:	23455

The region the stove occupied has become storage. There are now matching mahogany doors that cover the drawers.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20130716_180651_563.jpg
Views:	196
Size:	66.0 KB
ID:	23456
__________________
Advertisement

drf6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2013, 08:39 PM   #162
Guru
 
pilothouse king's Avatar


 
City: St. Lucie VILLAGE -NOT- Port St. Lucie!!!!!
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 15' Hobie Power Skiff w/90hp Yamaha-owned 28 years. Also a 2001 Bayliner 3788 that I took in trade
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 533
Not only round, but with a proper rubrail around the whole boat too! Love these boats. Too bad they didn't build that many.
__________________

__________________
.
Blake Davis Yacht Brokerage Inc

Yacht Broker/Owner since 1984, Florida License #32
pilothouse king is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2013, 08:40 PM   #163
Guru
 
brian eiland's Avatar
 
City: St Augustine, FL
Country: USA & Thailand
Vessel Name: RunningTide
Vessel Model: 37 Louisiane catamaran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 884
Very informative! Thanks for that posting drf6.
brian eiland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2013, 09:17 PM   #164
Guru
 
brian eiland's Avatar
 
City: St Augustine, FL
Country: USA & Thailand
Vessel Name: RunningTide
Vessel Model: 37 Louisiane catamaran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 884
Aft Deck

I very much like the aft deck of the original Pilgrim design. I like its size, and the fact that it is at the same level as the saloon. I believe that makes it all the more usable and utilized. Here are a few photos I've collected from some of the fleet of Pilgrims. Would love to have more.
Click image for larger version

Name:	Aft Deck, Von Fyhren.jpg
Views:	234
Size:	36.1 KB
ID:	23458

Click image for larger version

Name:	Olive Oyl aft deck.jpg
Views:	209
Size:	42.4 KB
ID:	23459

Click image for larger version

Name:	3858667_20120805071212_2_XLARGE.jpg
Views:	159
Size:	29.4 KB
ID:	23460

Click image for larger version

Name:	Odyssey aft deck.jpg
Views:	166
Size:	72.8 KB
ID:	23461

Click image for larger version

Name:	Pathfinder aft deck.jpg
Views:	201
Size:	59.5 KB
ID:	23462

Click image for larger version

Name:	Gatsby aft deck.jpg
Views:	189
Size:	46.1 KB
ID:	23463

This saloon-aftdeck combination, in lieu the often seen aft stateroom with very small aft deck of many trawlers designs, is a very appealing configuration for a liveaboard vessel.
brian eiland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2013, 09:40 PM   #165
Guru
 
brian eiland's Avatar
 
City: St Augustine, FL
Country: USA & Thailand
Vessel Name: RunningTide
Vessel Model: 37 Louisiane catamaran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 884
Too Slow?....Marketable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pilothouse king View Post
... Love these boats. Too bad they didn't build that many.

I've cruised at 6 mph and at 60 mph. I prefer the latter if somebody else is paying for the fuel!
One of my primary goals in this redesign project is to see what the most reasonable price is that this vessel could be reintroduced into production. My hope is to cut down significantly the man-hrs to put one of these vessels together, and concurrently keep most production in the USA.

The BIG question remains, is there a market for such a vessel? I know the looks of the vessel has it share of admirers. But I gathered a number of hints that this vessel would not have that great of appeal, bottom line, because of its limited displacement speed??

Look at the Nordic Tug and the Krogen Express. Both seem to 'market' to the faster portion of trawlers buyers. Is it a question of just putting a larger HP engine in it and displaying higher speeds above those normal hull displacement speeds?

Are the full retirement folks the ones that are willing to accept displacement speed (and economy), while the other weekend cruisers need a bit more speed to widen their short time usage??
brian eiland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 01:11 AM   #166
Guru
 
pilothouse king's Avatar


 
City: St. Lucie VILLAGE -NOT- Port St. Lucie!!!!!
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 15' Hobie Power Skiff w/90hp Yamaha-owned 28 years. Also a 2001 Bayliner 3788 that I took in trade
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 533
All I know is that "modern and with it" is always very soon passe, while classic is timeless.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	459 2006 & 5288 003.jpg
Views:	165
Size:	175.6 KB
ID:	23466  
__________________
.
Blake Davis Yacht Brokerage Inc

Yacht Broker/Owner since 1984, Florida License #32
pilothouse king is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 04:33 AM   #167
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15,612
IF the retired set comes from a sail background , low speed expectations are the norm and low fuel consumption would be expected.

With many 40 ft sail hulls providing 6 1/2 to 7K cruise (called 8mph in the ditch) and fuel burn at about 1 GPH, a 3GPH boat at basically the same speed will be acceptable , but I think 15GPH for 15 MPH will be a really hard sell.

The gin palace , summer dockside cottage folks might be willing to pay extra to get home quickly , but most would simply reduce their operating range so they are the same numbers of hours from home.

These boats do offer a grand living style and I believe extra beam would make them easier to sell than a monster motor..
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 06:55 AM   #168
Guru
 
SCOTTEDAVIS's Avatar
 
City: Vero Beach, FL.
Country: US
Vessel Name: FIREFLY
Vessel Model: Pilgrim 40
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 913
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
IF the retired set comes from a sail background , low speed expectations are the norm and low fuel consumption would be expected.

With many 40 ft sail hulls providing 6 1/2 to 7K cruise (called 8mph in the ditch) and fuel burn at about 1 GPH, a 3GPH boat at basically the same speed will be acceptable , but I think 15GPH for 15 MPH will be a really hard sell.

The gin palace , summer dockside cottage folks might be willing to pay extra to get home quickly , but most would simply reduce their operating range so they are the same numbers of hours from home.

These boats do offer a grand living style and I believe extra beam would make them easier to sell than a monster motor..
Couldn't agree more, the market is for folks that come from sail as well as retired with more time for long distance as well as efficiency lovers. Pleasure boats need to make you happy and appeal to your eye, if you love classic lines and good looks in a boat the Pilgrim can push those buttons.

My better half and I are both in our early 50's and were looking longer term then some. We bought Firefly because we fell in love with what the boat can do and how it makes us feel. I still look back at least once walking away from her and my wife remarked just the other day how the boats makes her as happy as a little house in the woods.

A very real fact that was also considered is that diesel fuel will never go down in price and most likely double in price over the next 5-10 years. The 15+ gph crowd may find they may have many decisions to make at some point. You have already seen a drastic drop in price on fuel hungry boats. It is my understanding that for the average boater fuel costs are a small part of the cost of ownership, however for the distiance cruser the get very real day to day.

We hope to be able to still fulfill our dream in retirement of making the "loop" and going places at our 1.4 gph cruse speed.

One "interesting" side of this boat is the attention we get wherever we go. We feel like movie stars with all the pictures taken of us when underway, and at the dock we always seen to attract attention, perhaps it's my beautiful wife.




Like the Pilgrim, classic good looks.
SCOTTEDAVIS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 07:10 AM   #169
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15,612
>A very real fact that was also considered is that diesel fuel will never go down in price and most likely double in price over the next 5-10 years<

Sorry but when GB simply said he would allow exploration on the East coast (not yet drilling) the price of fuel went from $4.25 to $2.25 in a few weeks.

The USA is AWASH with energy, fuel fracked oil and gas , coal (400year supply) and shale oil.Along with both coasts and the un-drilled half of the GOM.

IF out masters allow it ,the USA will be awash with cheap oil , and the trend to bring loads of production back to the USA will continue , because of cheaper energy. Great for boat sales!!!

The energy is there , we just need to convince our rulers to allow us to use it.

A Buck a gallon will take longer , but $2.00 is easy to see .
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 07:58 AM   #170
Guru
 
brian eiland's Avatar
 
City: St Augustine, FL
Country: USA & Thailand
Vessel Name: RunningTide
Vessel Model: 37 Louisiane catamaran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 884
Quote:
Originally Posted by pilothouse king View Post
All I know is that "modern and with it" is always very soon passe, while classic is timeless.
I wonder what that is on the fwd deck of that photo you posted,....a part of the boat, or just something being transported?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	fwd deck item.jpg
Views:	148
Size:	66.3 KB
ID:	23480  
brian eiland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 08:09 AM   #171
Guru
 
SCOTTEDAVIS's Avatar
 
City: Vero Beach, FL.
Country: US
Vessel Name: FIREFLY
Vessel Model: Pilgrim 40
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 913
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post
I wonder what that is on the fwd deck of that photo you posted,....a part of the boat, or just something being transported?

Forward seat with folding backrest under cover, or the older style anchor rode locker with windless mounted on top. The davit was an option to allow easier retrieval of heavy anchors, or full crab pots.
SCOTTEDAVIS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 08:14 AM   #172
Guru
 
brian eiland's Avatar
 
City: St Augustine, FL
Country: USA & Thailand
Vessel Name: RunningTide
Vessel Model: 37 Louisiane catamaran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 884
too slow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post

The BIG question remains, is there a market for such a vessel? I know the looks of the vessel has it share of admirers. But I gathered a number of hints that this vessel would not have that great of appeal, bottom line, because of its limited displacement speed??

Are the full retirement folks the ones that are willing to accept displacement speed (and economy), while the other weekend cruisers need a bit more speed to widen their short time usage??

Here was an very interesting observation by a very experience boat owner from Europe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HTM09
Hello Brian,
some years ago I had the same question like you. I wanted a boat for using the inland waterways and canals in Europe, owner operated by a couple with the possibility of the occasional 2 more guests in a separate cabin with ensuite bath. Comfortable for onboard living for some weeks and capable and sized for traveling from the Swedish islands down to the Med (via inland waterways). I was open to all materials, propulsion systems, designs and sizes. The only design feature which was set, was the choice for a full displacement yacht, because of volume, comfort, speed limits and economy.

By order of the Admiral, I started a serious and deep research. Because of my lack of experience with inland motor boating, I hired additionally a professional small yacht engineer for an independent and open research of this subject.

We both came to the almost same result. And our result was nothing new. The wheel was already invented . The exact same type of boat was built in Holland by many yards, because it is the most practical design for the European inland and costal waters and its corresponding laws and regulations.

This was the result:

Material: Steel and undoubtedly only Steel. Because of the many locks and sloping riverbanks with rocks and the many sheet pile walls, Steel with a solid rubber running strake. Anything else would not have lasted very long.

Hull Design: Multi chine full displacement hull with frames and stringers for volume and stability, because stabilizers were not concidered suitable for the sloped riverbanks.

Maximum size and technical data: Maximum length 14,99 meter (length because of licence requirements) x 4,8 meters width x 1,5 meter draft and 4 meter airdraft (3,5 meter with mast and windscreen down for the bridges and canal tunnels in France). Displacement max. 30 to 32 metric tons. because of the capacity of the haul out lifts in the inland boat shops in Europe. Twin engine diesel of 150 to 180 HP each with prop and shaft plus 24 volt electrical or hydraulical bow and stern thruster. Fuel capacity for 1000 NM range at 8 Kts, potable water for one week for two people plus watermaker. 8 KVA diesel genset, diesel central water heating, air conditioning, electrical cooking, no gas, no petrol store.

And thats the way they all looked like. Aft owner cabin with ensuite bath and owner office with raised aft deck above, two steering positions, one on the aft deck, one in the salon. Engine room under salon, galley forward of salon with additional dinette and foreward guest cabin with ensuite bath. This type of boat is build only in the Netherlands but by more than two dozend of high quality yards. These boats last for ever but are an investment between 650.000,- and 2.000.000,- US $ depending on luxury and options build in. Built time one year.

In order to confirm our research, we chartered one for two weeks in the Netherlands and found all results correct and confirmed and bought one.

But and there is a big but. Our children found slow boating on inland water ways f...... booooooring and never joined us and they never used the boat themself. We never had the time to go down to France or through the Göta Canal with it. It was and is only used in northern Germany and the Netherlands and selling it would be an enormous loss. So it is still in the family and sits 8 month a year in a hangar on the hard.

Answering your question: A pure displacement motorboat for slow boating on the canals is a non starter, period.

Below the European inland motor cruiser !
Interesting page of discussions and photos of that gentleman's 'canal boat':
Trawler Vs. Motoryacht - Page 6 - YachtForums.Com
brian eiland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 08:58 AM   #173
Guru
 
brian eiland's Avatar
 
City: St Augustine, FL
Country: USA & Thailand
Vessel Name: RunningTide
Vessel Model: 37 Louisiane catamaran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 884
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post
I wonder what that is on the fwd deck of that photo you posted,....a part of the boat, or just something being transported?
Ah ha, optical illusion affected me. Somehow the shadowing made it look like some sort of hooded object fwd of the raised portion of the deckhouse up there. Funny how those perceptions can sometimes affect one's observations.
brian eiland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 09:11 AM   #174
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTTEDAVIS View Post

One "interesting" side of this boat is the attention we get wherever we go. We feel like movie stars with all the pictures taken of us when underway, and at the dock we always seen to attract attention, perhaps it's my beautiful wife.
Judging from your photo, I'd say it's your wife although I really love the boat.
__________________
Codger2

My passion for improving my boat(s) exceeds my desire to constantly cruise them.
Codger2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 10:19 AM   #175
Veteran Member
 
drf6's Avatar
 
City: Erie, PA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LIBERTY
Vessel Model: Pilgrim 40
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 55
I am sure you are aware of the Photos area on the Pilgrim Wiki Pages.
Photos - PILGRIM Trawlers

There are 476 photos of "Hull 0" and various photos (1 up to 66) of the 41 Pilgrims built.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post
I very much like the aft deck of the original Pilgrim design. I like its size, and the fact that it is at the same level as the saloon. I believe that makes it all the more usable and utilized. Here are a few photos I've collected from some of the fleet of Pilgrims. Would love to have more.

This saloon-aftdeck combination, in lieu the often seen aft stateroom with very small aft deck of many trawlers designs, is a very appealing configuration for a liveaboard vessel.
I believe the market for a brand new, similar size/type boat is very small. You probably can't sell enough of them to amortize the tooling costs and turn a profit. One would think if there was money to be made building a similar boat that Gozzard would already be doing it considering the fact that they have experience in building 41 of the boats already.
drf6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 11:31 AM   #176
Guru
 
healhustler's Avatar
 
City: Longboat Key, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaHorse II View Post
Judging from your photo, I'd say it's your wife although I really love the boat.
Plus 2 on that one.

Frankly, I see the Pilgrim as one of the ultimate Coastal Cruising and Loop boats. Given the number of baby-boomers retiring (including me), a boat like the Pilgrim with reasonable pricing should sell, but it remains a classic with classic styling and performance to match. Those who chose to plop down the green for a new Pilgrim 40 were probably a combination of shrewd econo-minded and heart intended people that really had a genuine appreciation for the assets of the vessel. There's other economical boats out there that common sense would say could find a place in today's market with modernized materials, windows, and upgraded systems....including the Willard 30-40, Pilgrim 43, and even my own Krogen Manatee. Many of the less desirable elements of these boats could be side-stepped with recent design tech. Imagine if CAD software were around when the Pilgrim 40 was designed. Not to say that it would have been a better boat, but the designer would have had other options for routing wires and plumbing, opportunities to take advantage of inches here or there without prototypes or trial and error. It must be really difficult to get it right the first time, no?

I think a new Pilgrim 40 would find a similar percentage of the market as it did when it was first introduced, and I'd be glad about that cuz I enjoy the few moments I've had to see the boat on the water or in a marina. If marketing and affordability made it the Sea-Ray of cruising boats, I'd be sad.
healhustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 11:42 AM   #177
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTTEDAVIS View Post
Are all the channel markers that I see in the photo, numerous throughout the ICW? If so, the lanes are not very wide!
__________________
Codger2

My passion for improving my boat(s) exceeds my desire to constantly cruise them.
Codger2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 12:59 PM   #178
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 14,280
side channel..while there are narrow parts of the ICW...generally wider than this...

the width and depth of all ICW narrow spots can usually be found on the charts under controlling depths, but so many places haven't been dredged in so long...you really have to pick your way along if you have a bad feeling...problem is with too many boaters...they don't have enough experience to get that "bad feeling"...
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 01:40 PM   #179
Guru
 
brian eiland's Avatar
 
City: St Augustine, FL
Country: USA & Thailand
Vessel Name: RunningTide
Vessel Model: 37 Louisiane catamaran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 884
Lots of Photos, and great fwd stateroom modification

Quote:
Originally Posted by drf6 View Post
I am sure you are aware of the Photos area on the Pilgrim Wiki Pages.
Photos - PILGRIM Trawlers

There are 476 photos of "Hull 0" and various photos (1 up to 66) of the 41 Pilgrims built.
Thanks for that link . I was having some problems accessing all those photos before. This was much easier.

I found this particular vessel VERY interesting, with lots of good photos.
Vessel #44, Nobel Tethys, previously Moon Dancer
https://plus.google.com/photos/11770...52198615848497

In particular I like the light-shaded wood utilized in the fwd stateroom (photos beginning at #66). It makes that room much more appealing than the stock design.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Noble Tethys 016.jpg
Views:	167
Size:	89.1 KB
ID:	23497   Click image for larger version

Name:	Noble Tethys 017.jpg
Views:	168
Size:	89.5 KB
ID:	23498   Click image for larger version

Name:	Noble Tethys 018.jpg
Views:	167
Size:	86.1 KB
ID:	23499   Click image for larger version

Name:	Noble Tethys 020.jpg
Views:	157
Size:	85.3 KB
ID:	23500   Click image for larger version

Name:	Noble Tethys 021.jpg
Views:	146
Size:	85.9 KB
ID:	23501  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Stateroom~02.jpg
Views:	145
Size:	86.1 KB
ID:	23502   Click image for larger version

Name:	Stateroom~03.jpg
Views:	167
Size:	86.3 KB
ID:	23503   Click image for larger version

Name:	Stateroom~04.jpg
Views:	172
Size:	85.3 KB
ID:	23504   Click image for larger version

Name:	Stateroom~05.jpg
Views:	154
Size:	85.9 KB
ID:	23505  
brian eiland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 03:06 PM   #180
Guru
 
SCOTTEDAVIS's Avatar
 
City: Vero Beach, FL.
Country: US
Vessel Name: FIREFLY
Vessel Model: Pilgrim 40
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 913
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaHorse II View Post
Are all the channel markers that I see in the photo, numerous throughout the ICW? If so, the lanes are not very wide!
PS is correct this is the channel going into the Loggerhead Marina at Grand Harbor in Vero Beach.
__________________

SCOTTEDAVIS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
coastal trawler, liveaboard, pilgrim

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012