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Old 03-17-2015, 08:27 PM   #321
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Dear T. Eric,

Your creative exercise is communicating results that are attractive and inspiring.
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Old 03-17-2015, 08:49 PM   #322
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The Admiral and I have been upgrading our PILGRIM 40 ever since we purchased her in 2009.

We have nothing but a great experience cruising with her on the East coast and Lake Champlain during the summer boating season.

The sad part is that we as Canadians are limited for our enjoyment, we cannot cruise in USA inland water more than 183 days from a IRS fiscal impact (filing two income tax reports).

This why and with great regrets, in the next boating seasons, that we are thinking to prepare REAL MOUNTIE for sale to the right Crew in order for them to enjoy cruising. We will not give her away but we will sell her at the right price (235 K$US) without a Broker.


At the same Time, we will continue to enjoy her for the seasons to come.


What makes Pilgrim owner enjoyment in a 21th Century, where there are so many modern design motor vessels?

Why people will pay large amount of money for a motor vessel that will provide them enjoyment?

We live in a world where waste cost more than quality.

I believe that here is a cost to quality, design and you have to search for it. The concept of waste which is failry generic have been around for a long period of time in the boating industry.

This is why you pay double for a marine part, especially labor and pricing fluctuate upward.

This is why you have to replace or upgrade components to maintain process improvement. Some Japanese car manufacturer understood that process improvement in 1988 as the ¨war on waste¨ was well imbedded in their culture and behaviour.

After the 80's, we started to have different views on assets, boats, cars … Like sunglasses it varies differently in price and quality :

Because very few vessels last forever, one of the main principal view is accural accounting which requires that a motor vessel cost be proportionally expensed based on the time period over which the motor vessel was used…

Also depriciation, depreciation and amortization (as well as depletion) are the current methods that are used to prorate the cost of any specific type of motor vessel to its life.

These methods are calculated by subtracting the motor vessel's the salvage value from its original cost.

One of the waste was over-production of products and motor vessels.

There was only 41 Pilgrim 40 produced in Canada. Because of the construction quality, Ted Gozzard may he rest in peace, mentionned to Jim Elliot the last owner, that lost money selling his last Pilgrim 40… mainly because of inflating cost of quality material.

I think supply-and-demand model for a Pilgrim 40 makes potential buyers doing their research understanding the determination of the right price of quantity of a motor vessel sold on the yacht world market. This model applies most accurately when there is perfect competition.

It took two and a half years to find the right Pilgrim 40 for the quality and design at a fair price, and I am glad I have it. I am not in haste to sell it at this time.

This is why I will continue to enjoy our Pilgrim 40 couple more boating seasons on Lake Champlain.

Enjoyment of a Pilgrim 40 is priceless.
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Old 03-17-2015, 09:21 PM   #323
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my Brother owned a nice 40' Pilgrim here in Texas that was lost in hurricane Ike. He loved it and so did I. Quiet performance, so nice to look at and nice lay out. Nice as a liveaboard for a couple and again so nice to look at!

Glen
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Old 03-17-2015, 10:07 PM   #324
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My wife and I continue to search for the right P40. But with so few made it's more like waiting than searching.
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Old 03-17-2015, 10:22 PM   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tegdesign View Post
My first sentence after the quote really is specific That this it's not a redesign of the P40. You may not see the similarities in design language. Certainly different in function. My design isn't meant to be a copy or reproduction of any existing vessel. If I could add a hull appendage to an existing production boat to achieve my ideal boat wouldn't I be lucky!

Some people are quite literally minded. But design is subjective. For example to me Nordic and American tugs look like Roto molded kayaks and have the authentic street cred of a PT Cruiser.
Well I was being literal since this whole thread was about redesigning the pilgrim 40. Your boat looks nice and I have nothing against it but I cant relate it to a redesign of a P40 no more than my Devlin boat, for me definite apples and oranges.
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Old 03-17-2015, 10:33 PM   #326
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I was looking at addressing this rolling tendency of the original Pilgrim design by possible utilizing a harder chine design like the ones I sited in the posting below,...#221

also posting # 222



Quote:
Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post
Man-Hrs for Steel Hull Construction (part 1) ....excerpt
.....Lets choose the hull design to be considered for this estimating exercise. The more I study the options, the more convinced I've become that the hull forms offered by the Florida Bay Coasters and the great Harbor Trawlers are a very favorable choice for this displacement speed Pilgrim. The hulls from both of these designs are very similar designs and have a documented favorable track record. Their hard chines, and considerable flat panel areas lend themselves to relatively easy fabrication in metal.



Look at a few of these hull cross-sections and photos.

First a few of the original Pilgrim design.
Attachment 24479
Attachment 24480
Attachment 24481

Then an overlaid depiction of that Pilgrim hull type, compared to the hard chine section of a Great Harbor hull.
Attachment 24482

Here are a few hull sections of the Fla Bay Coaster hard chine type
Attachment 24483

Attachment 24484


…..and some photos of these Fla Bay coaster hull types,
Attachment 24485
Attachment 24486
Attachment 24487
Attachment 24488


This is NOT a really difficult hull shape to build.....lots of 'flat' or single curvature panels, and no mult-chine.

I would likely go one step further and do a more complete review of a variation on the FBC hull design that Jay Benford did, his design #295, a “West Coaster” for a gentleman who lived in California. That client wanted similar livability, plus more ability to deal with open ocean cruising. To achieve this Jay modified the hull form, particularly in the bow, giving it a finer entry and more flare.
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Old 03-17-2015, 10:48 PM   #327
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Boat Building Market

I only wish the economics were better in the boat market, such that a project like this might go forward.

I think I have outlined a few construction methods and materials that could help keep the building cost down,...and a few methods that would limit the up-front investment in tooling for a limited production situation.

Regrettably I can not afford to go forward with such a project myself at this time. I'd love to have one of these vessels myself though.
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Old 03-17-2015, 11:48 PM   #328
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Brian I also feel some kind of hard chine hull with a P40 on top of it would be a fair redesign. However if open big water use is not in the equation I would think a used P 40 with a retrofitted gyroscopic stabilization system might be cheaper have better resale and a very pleasant boat to live aboard. At anchor I would use flopper stopper cages they have no energy coat and while running where there is wake or wave action use the gyro system. Aside from the rolling the P 40 is a all around live aboard winner a really supper gunk holler.
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Old 03-17-2015, 11:55 PM   #329
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Brian I almost had this boat built had preliminary plans and ready to go but the design started spiraling out of control because I wanted 7-16K cruise range. This boat was hard chine SD with many interior features planed from my P40 past experience.
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Old 03-18-2015, 02:07 AM   #330
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It would be quite a financial jungle to attempt to reproduce a Pilgrim 40 using the same quality wood finish...

The first production boat of the Pilgrim 40 Project started in January 1983.

The P-40 was designed by an Artist, Ted Gozzard (may he rest in peace) who expressed his natural talent and made the proof of concept (without using a computer).

He envisioned it three-dimensionally, drafted it, made a model, tooled and builded it to the finest carpentry detail that would be cost prohibitived today.

As inflation gained over during the late 80's, Ted did mentionned that he lost $50,000.00 Cdn when he sold his last Pilgrim 40 in 1989, he said : '' It is like tearing 10,000 five dollars bills...

Here is an example, on January 15 1987, in Annapolis, MD a Pilgrim 40 was sold for a delivery in May 1987, at that time one US dollar was $1.3615 CDN.

The standard cost of a Pilgrim 40 was $187,575.00 USD and additionnal equipment was $33,820.00 USD for a grand total of $221,395 USD. ($301,429 CAD)

If you use an inflation calculator on today's internet, calculate in USD the retail cost of a 1987 Pilgrim 40 @ $221,395: The same item would retail, TODAY @ 455,471.49$ USD ($581,591 CAD) a cumulative rate of inflation of 105.7%.

Source: Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value from 1913-2015

The boats themselves were created and built at North Castle Marine Ltd in Goderich, Ontario in the year 1982. The boat was marketed by "Pilgrim Marine Sales", of Toronto, Ontario.


The "Pilgrim 40" was put aside and no further vessels were constructed.


Many inquiries have been received by the Gozzard Family (Gozzard Yachts Brokerage - Gozzard Yachts Brokerage. ) over the years as to whether they shall ever re-introduce the "40 Motor Yacht"; their answer is still no. They would like very much to re-visit the subject of a small trawler type Motor Yacht, but as yet the "Pilgrim 40" molds still lay in their back yard!
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Old 03-18-2015, 02:35 AM   #331
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At the beginning, I was not enticed to use the flybridge as we always dock from the Pilot House. Then after the 3rd year, we use more and more the upper deck on sunny hot days on Lake Champlain. The Admiral likes to sit and read or sleep on the chair...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...85079728058467



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Old 03-18-2015, 09:58 AM   #332
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Thanks for those videos Real Mountie

...and I saw this one referenced as well
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Old 03-18-2015, 10:13 AM   #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
Brian I almost had this boat built had preliminary plans and ready to go but the design started spiraling out of control because I wanted 7-16K cruise range. This boat was hard chine SD with many interior features planed from my P40 past experience.
Nice looking design.
I would say that you might have loss a little of the Pilgrim nostalgia with the bow shape.
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Old 03-18-2015, 10:24 AM   #334
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It would be quite a financial jungle to attempt to reproduce a Pilgrim 40 using the same quality wood finish...
I addressed some of this 'wood interior' subject back on this page
Redesigning the Pilgrim 40 Trawler / Canal Boat

In this more modern era of computer-cut pieces I do believe the 'cosmetic portions' of the wood interior could be produced in a fairly economical manner, be it real wood or the newer vinyl laminates (which are getting to be very good wood-looking substitutes)

...and the use of some offshore labor to prefab the 'wood interior pieces' could make this job more economical.

Quote:
Many inquiries have been received by the Gozzard Family (Gozzard Yachts Brokerage - Gozzard Yachts Brokerage. ) over the years as to whether they shall ever re-introduce the "40 Motor Yacht"; their answer is still no. They would like very much to re-visit the subject of a small trawler type Motor Yacht, but as yet the "Pilgrim 40" molds still lay in their back yard!
I imagine if those molds still exist that they are no longer in a condition that they could be utilized,.... certainly not for long term??
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Old 03-18-2015, 10:51 AM   #335
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Thanks for those videos Real Mountie

...and I saw this one referenced as well



Hmmm. The one on the right looks so familiar.
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Old 04-06-2015, 01:28 PM   #336
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Steel Hulled Trawler

Another new trawler/expedition vessel that believes a steel hull is the way to go, both for 'security' and up-front and custom building cost considerations.

Special Feature: Bering Yachts 77' Expedition Series | YachtForums: The World’s Largest Yachting Community

Look down on second page to see the 'hard chine, round bilge hull'
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Old 05-24-2015, 10:01 AM   #337
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During thier Loop, Dave and Bobbi enjoyed their Pilgrim 40 to the fullest. They posted their final tally and lessons learned from their trip from Florida and the Erie lake:

https://pilgrimliberty.wordpress.com...1/#comment-152
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Old 05-24-2015, 01:38 PM   #338
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Notice last Pilgrim for sale on Yachtworld is now listed as pending.
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Old 06-17-2015, 08:26 AM   #339
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...larger Pilgrim 40,...very similar vessel
Trawler Forum - View Single Post - Interesting boats

PW4670 - Vigorous II Details - Pacific Boat Brokers Inc.
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Old 06-17-2015, 09:17 AM   #340
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Wow.

5" shaft
66" wheel
5-1 gear ratio

I think the anchors are also plenty of correct, even for FF (not watch-fobs)


I like it a lot, very sturdy.

Wife thinks it needs a woman's touch on the inside but otherwise she likes it
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