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Old 01-05-2016, 07:34 PM   #121
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Or -
now THATS funny!!!!!!
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Old 01-05-2016, 07:36 PM   #122
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I once monitored a radio call from a boat I couldn't see around a bend. When a boat came into sight, I called and asked if he was the large white trawler coming around the bend.


He replied (in an obvious huff) "No this is the large white Motor Yacht coming around the bend.
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Old 01-05-2016, 08:34 PM   #123
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Old 01-05-2016, 08:52 PM   #124
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Now let's talk about why the agency that licenses and regulates vehicles powered by engines is called the Department of Motor Vehicles.
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Old 01-05-2016, 09:11 PM   #125
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I once monitored a radio call from a boat I couldn't see around a bend. When a boat came into sight, I called and asked if he was the large white trawler coming around the bend.


He replied (in an obvious huff) "No this is the large white Motor Yacht coming around the bend.
That's hilarious!
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Old 01-05-2016, 09:29 PM   #126
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Now let's talk about why the agency that licenses and regulates vehicles powered by engines is called the Department of Motor Vehicles.
Because back when... there were steam "engines" in ships, trains, derricks etc. Few were in some prototype autos and trucks. Petrol fired "motors" soon became the norm for rubber tired vehicles. Thus the term motor vehicle caught on.

What I still can't understand... why are parkways called that and driveways called that??
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Old 01-05-2016, 09:51 PM   #127
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What I still can't understand... why are parkways called that and driveways called that??
I love that we drive on the parkway and park on the driveway!


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Old 01-05-2016, 10:26 PM   #128
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I once monitored a radio call from a boat I couldn't see around a bend. When a boat came into sight, I called and asked if he was the large white trawler coming around the bend.


He replied (in an obvious huff) "No this is the large white Motor Yacht coming around the bend.
Are you sure it wasn't Marin kicking back smoking a pipe driving that bitch????!!!
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Old 01-05-2016, 10:58 PM   #129
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Ive said on a few occasions, if you really have a trawler you dont need to ask,"is this a trawler". But not everyone knows they dont have a trawler. Case in point. I was looking at a marina in oklahoma, in Okmulgee IIRC, at the end of the canal system. The dock master told me he lived on a trawler in the marina. I was looking for a slip for my Krogen trawler and was interested in other trawler owners. Well,,, his "trawler" was an aft cabin motor yacht with a pair of 375 hp 3208s. He just went slow. So it was his trawler.
If you are sure you have a new language evolved recreational trawler maybe you can help others by defining what it is about your boat that qualifies it as such and what would disqualify other boats that are not? Maybe we can come up with some kind of realistic working consensus.
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Old 01-06-2016, 12:38 AM   #130
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Marin You are probably right but no way will you win or change thinking amongst the general population.
Eyschulman--- You are correct, and I have no illusions about changing anything. If others wish to cling to and defend their ignorance that's no concern of mine. My only concern is that I'M correct and am not promoting a bogus use of the language.

Other boaters can call their toy boats whatever they want. It won't change what their boats actually are.

I've had a lot of very spirited discussions over the years with ad agency writers, aerodynamicists, propulsion engineers, etc. on why things are--- or in some cases were and then changed--- called what they are called. Language is a fascinating thing--- it's a big reason I've been drawn to the careers I've had and will have in the future. So I know that words and meanings change over time. But the legitiimate changes always have a basis in reality for changing, be it the world "gay," the word "high," the word "coyote," and so on. Changes in meaning that are not based in a word's past tend to not catch on or survive.

Flywright says that defending an established meaning of a word indicates living in the past. He could not be more wrong. The way a person uses a language is a significant and telling indicator of the intelligence of that person, but it has nothing to do with past or present. It has everything to do with education, upbringing, common sense, logic, and an understanding of how a language and its words originated and evolved.

I've had the privilege of taking courses in language use and evolution from some very highly regarded linguistics professors here and in the UK. Some of them I took on my own tiime, some were sponsored by my employer. One of the takeaways has been learning how one can use language to change language. Sometimes the change is "legitimate" and sometimes it isn't.

It's been several decades since the people manufacturing and marketing what were previously called "cabin cruisers" realized that they could appeal to a very specific (and wealthy) type of buyer by implying that their boats had the attributes of a respected type of commercial vessel by associating the commercial name with their cabin cruisers. Adapting a few superficial design lines from these commercial boats helped convince the potential buyers that they were getting something that they really weren't and still aren't.

It was a brilliant piece of marketing as wittnessed by this entire thread. With several decades of use behind it, it's obvious that this particular market is not going to stop using the term erroneously.

Which to me says a lot about the people who make up the bulk of this particular (and very small in the overall scheme of things) market. When one matches the characteristics of the type of person who makes up the bulk of this segment of the recreational boating market with the term that's been attached to the boats themselves, it becomes obvious what a brillliant piece of marketing this has been.

The interesting thing to me is that the marketers who dreamed up the idea of using the word "trawler" to describe something that isn't one could have chosen any one of a number of other terms and had exactly the same results. They could have chosen "troller," "dragger," "seiner," "clipper," and the list goes on. As long as the word conjured up the attributes of seaworthiness--- however one defines that term--- strength, reliability, ruggedness-- however one defines that--- and so on, their market would have taken the bait hook, line and sinker and bought into the concept that their new toy boat had all the attributes of the commercial vessel that legitimately bears the name.

It's been interesting and entertaining writing about all this, and it's helped clarify some of my own thoughts, but no, I have no illusions of changing anyone's mind who long ago swallowed the bait.
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Old 01-06-2016, 12:52 AM   #131
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Hell....I have a Carver...no confusion here!!!
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Old 01-06-2016, 01:03 AM   #132
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Hell....I have a Carver...no confusion here!!!
John--- The reality is that if you enjoy it, and if your boat allows you to all things you want and like to do with a boat, it is totally irrelevant what you or anyone else wants to call it.

This "discussion" on linguistics has been interesting, but it has squat-all to do with what's important about recreational boats, which is boating.
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Old 01-06-2016, 01:32 AM   #133
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I still just call my boat a boat. Not a tug, not a trawler, just boat.


I would never call my boat a cruiser as I own two LandCruisers, and they are the cruisers in my house.
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Old 01-06-2016, 05:23 AM   #134
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John--- The reality is that if you enjoy it, and if your boat allows you to all things you want and like to do with a boat, it is totally irrelevant what you or anyone else wants to call it.

This "discussion" on linguistics has been interesting, but it has squat-all to do with what's important about recreational boats, which is boating.
It really is a great boat. And I will encourage that people do not look past boats like mine if they have an open mind and want to cruise under power. There are many advantages of owning an American made mass produced boat....like the windows don't leak!!! Or factory support(Carver has a file on my boat and equipment as it left the factory)!!!! Or an owner's manual with useable system diagrams!!!! A story: I have a close friend that is probably the best marine electrician around here(He owns an Albin 43). He was helping me with an electrical issue and heard him mumble under his breath..."If only we had a wiring diagram"...I went and got the owner's manual and there it was...a detailed wiring diagram that served the purpose we were looking for.

SO while styling is not exactly "trawleresque", there are upsides.
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Old 01-06-2016, 07:59 AM   #135
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Are you sure it wasn't Marin kicking back smoking a pipe driving that bitch????!!!
It might have been. The man was obviously highly insulted.
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Old 01-06-2016, 08:01 AM   #136
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I still just call my boat a boat. Not a tug, not a trawler, just boat..
When someone learns that I have a boat they often ask "What kind of boat do you have?". I tell them it's a trawler and they understand. Isn't that what language is about? Communicating?
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Old 01-06-2016, 08:53 AM   #137
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Yep,,, the dockmaster in Muskogee had a trawler to, cause he wanted it to be, aft cabin, flat bottom and big turbo'd v8s be damned.
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Old 01-06-2016, 09:26 AM   #138
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It really is a great boat. And I will encourage that people do not look past boats like mine if they have an open mind and want to cruise under power. There are many advantages of owning an American made mass produced boat....like the windows don't leak!!! Or factory support(Carver has a file on my boat and equipment as it left the factory)!!!! Or an owner's manual with useable system diagrams!!!! A story: I have a close friend that is probably the best marine electrician around here(He owns an Albin 43). He was helping me with an electrical issue and heard him mumble under his breath..."If only we had a wiring diagram"...I went and got the owner's manual and there it was...a detailed wiring diagram that served the purpose we were looking for.

SO while styling is not exactly "trawleresque", there are upsides.
Agreed!

Over a period of decades Tollycraft (i.e. Robert Merland Tollefson - Mr. Tolly) produced 6500 + well built, outstanding Ed Monk hull and superstructure design boats. Although Tollycraft mfg closed mid 1990's there are still many Tolly gurus available via Tollycraft Boating Club, and Forum, and the original Tolly parts website (currently owned and operated by Tollycraft's over two decade long lead purchasing agent - Gordon Graham). Additionally, there is a boating repair facility in Washington that caters to Tollycraft boats and is trying to rejuvenate the Tollycraft brand. All of this back up is a telephone call or email or website visit away. When we purchased our Tolly it came with nearly every pertinent instruction and diagram folder needed. Since owning I have fleshed the folder stack out a bit with even more details regarding inside its twin motors and gen set. The paper-print stack now measures some 12" thick aboard boat with other detailed instruction manuals on folders in my computer base.

There is nothing wrong with owning a well established production boat brand that had/has good craft production, great boat designs, and oodles of back-up persons/locations to rely on.

Note about well thought through U.S. made production boats:

Although I already felt sure we'd purchased the "correct", well cared for, decades old production boat... Upon first owning Our Tolly there were some lavatory/toilet features/improvements needing attention for both heads (my closing cost on boat reflected $3K need regarding improvements for the heads). Much of the work was centered in the twin-engine/gen-set compartment where two huge hinged hatches easily open to accomplish under salon floor operations. So... I hired an expert plumbing technician certified by Raritan company. He was also an expert marine mechanic who serviced multi million dollar Luxury Yachts in Sausalito, San Rafael Marin County areas. It made me feel even more at ease that we'd made the correct boat choice when he said upon end of first day of production - "Although only 34' this boat is the easiest to get around in and work on I ever seen for its size. It's under sole areas are like a well laid out 60 footer"
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Old 01-06-2016, 09:35 AM   #139
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I have a story. The other cofounder of this site had a Fales "Trawler". A Willard knock off. We were going by the Kemah boardwalk and an 8 year old kid says, "Did y'all catch any shrimp?". So an 8 year old kid that has no clue about boats THINKS it's a trawler based on design alone. Pretty close to being a trawler in my book...even without the nets...

That boat is now owned by a current TF member.
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Old 01-06-2016, 10:07 AM   #140
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Naval architects identify nine types of vessels, Yachts being the type we have. Most folks think telling someone you own a yacht might give them the impression that your the yacht club type blue blazer, white shorts and knee socks, etc. Using the term trawler denotes a more blue jeans tee shirt type. I'm going to try using "Kroghaven" because most folks when they see a Manatee are stumped by it's good looks and nautical mystic.
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