Rebuilding the Abaco's....?

[FF]

"But frankly I don't see them building to a level where they could guarantee protection against a category five hurricane."

The reason so many small homes were built with concrete block (that failed) is the owner/builder could add some blocks each week , that couldn't be removed .

Once the shell was finished enough to camp in, doors ,windows electrical , plumbing and appliances would be slowly purchased.

Today the structure would be cast in polly block forms , the strength comes from the amount of rebar installed.

This would require a loan as it must be all poured at one time.

This can easily be wind proof , even if the roof rips off , but crashing combers would be a challenge.

If the structures doors and other openings stay intact , a roof to stay intact is not cheap but doable.

FEMA has concepts on its website.

Perhaps many small loans would help with the restoration.

*********************

Our FL home is in a great hurricane hole area , and so far we have been very lucky, but I do research to plan for a "what if" (like a tornado) eats the house.


https://www.amvicsystem.com/products/icf/?utm_campaign=ICF_Generic_BMM_CA&utm_term=%2Binsulated%20%2Bconcrete%20%2Bforms&utm_medium=ppc&utm_source=adwords&hsa_ad=372845124436&hsa_src=g&hsa_kw=%2Binsulated%20%2Bconcrete%20%2Bforms&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_grp=76554333996&hsa_cam=2076553173&hsa_acc=9352294270&hsa_ver=3&hsa_tgt=kwd-297795737719&hsa_mt=b&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIx5X6ocK55AIVkZ6fCh01twwCEAAYAyAAEgL37vD_BwE

 

[Ski in NC]

Anyone know how typical it is in the Bahamas for a private structure to be insured? I know in some countries it is pretty rare. If insured, rebuilding could start fairly soon. Most insurance companies have a global resources, so should remain solvent.

 

[Group9]

Wifey B: Not saying they're poor. I'm saying this. If every home in Fort Lauderdale was destroyed, if there was no electricity and wouldn't be for a long time, if there was no city water available, if there was no fuel, if there was no construction equipment and supplies had to be flown in, then I'd move somewhere else for at least a while. I would rebuild, but I wouldn't live outdoors or in a tent for a year. Not a reflection on the people there, just on the human situation. Now I'm hoping that I'm terribly overstating the problems. I don't like the evacuation idea. However, it has come up as a possibility.

You tell me what you'd do if the circumstances are the worst case? Where would you live for the next year?

I don't have any idea how bad it will be in the Abacos and Grand Bahama in the next year or so. But, I'm betting it will a lot worse than most think. I can give my own example and timeline for my family's recover.

August 29, 2005. Our town is inundated with 23-27 foot of storm surge and Cat 3 wind (my home gets 23 feet of water and is flooded). Ninety per cent of the houses in my town (Pass Christian, MS) , are flat out destroyed, five percent flooded, like mine, and five per cent relatively undamaged (the pictures I am seeing from the Abacos are eerily familiar looking). My wife and kids immediately go off to Jackson, MS to live with my mother. Due to my job, I have to stay, and sleep on the ground for a week and a half, then I move into a normal sized RV that ten of us sleep in. I wear the same clothes for a week.
Around the end of September, I get my own RV from my agency, (I applied for a FEMA trailer around September 10 or so).
October - my FEMA trailer arrives. I spend one night in it and the formaldehyde smell is so bad I can't stay there, and move back into my old RV.

October 15, 2005 - We move our RVs to the Wal-Mart parking lot where I live until January, 2006) our power is supplied by a diesel generator that runs non-stop for six months.

January 10, 2006 - My neighborhood gets electricity back. My family returns from Jackson, MS. We move our RV and the FEMA trailer to our neighborhood and park them in our front yard. We are the first ones back. We live in the RV and FEMA trailer and start hauling off the debris from our home and stripping it down to 2x4s, with help from friends and family.

April, 2006, our construction guy shows up and start rebuilding our house.

July 2006, we move back into our house and get rid of the RV and FEMA trailer. There are still no businesses operating in our town.

The years go by and we celebrated every little thing that was the slightest return to normal. Every business reopening was exciting (most never came back). Now, 14 years later, half the town is still missing, slabs everywhere, but it kind of feels normal. That's as good as it gets, I think.

Why didn't we just move away and start over somewhere else? I don't know. A lot of people did. Some came back, some didn't. Maybe we should have. It if happens again, we probably will.

I can only imagine that things will take a lot longer in the Bahamas. As far as insurance, I think Bahamians may be in for a rude awakening. Those without flood insurance were screwed down here. Some insurance companies fought paying claims tooth and nail (I imagine they realized their financial survival was on the line) and some paid quickly. We all know which ones did which and we became familiar with the insurance term. "Starve them out."

Hopetown will be fine. A lot of people there can write the checks needed to rebuild and I'm sure it will. Grand Bahama, GTC, Guana Cay, Marsh Harbor and other places, we'll just have to wait and see how it goes. I don't have a clue.

 

[menzies]

You tell me what you'd do if the circumstances are the worst case? Where would you live for the next year?

Fortunately for us we have 4000 miles of land to the west of us, so we can simply stay "local" inland within driving distance and deal with things and rebuild. Plus we have the insurance and financial means - so not really a fair comparison I know.

 

[Bud]

The logistics of what to do with the people while they rebuild is complicated and not one answer will fit all, Some will stay and some will leave, some will come back and some won't. I believe that the most important part of the rebuild is to rebuild above flood level. I know tourists don't like going up stairs but the homes and businesses that have survived the best here in the Keys after Wilma and Irma were elevated. We stayed in the house next door to us (elevated) while we repaired our house (ground level).

 

[cardude01]

Group 9, your story really puts the rebuilding process into perspective. And I agree, it will be much harder to rebuild on some of these Abaco islands mainly just because of logistics (and expense).

GTC was a cool little island (IMO) because while they obviously relied on tourism, it seemed different from Hope Town in that there was more of an actual “town” (New Plymouth) with a core group of locals, schools, three grocery stores, hardware stores, etc. I’m guessing some of the rich folks will rebuild, but I do worry about the locals who lived in the actual town.

 

[wkearney99]

The years go by and we celebrated every little thing that was the slightest return to normal. Every business reopening was exciting (most never came back). Now, 14 years later, half the town is still missing, slabs everywhere, but it kind of feels normal. That's as good as it gets, I think.

Yikes, that was something. Thanks for posting the explanation. Really sheds light on the ordeal for those of us that, thankfully, have never had to go through it.

 

[Group9]

Group 9, your story really puts the rebuilding process into perspective. And I agree, it will be much harder to rebuild on some of these Abaco islands mainly just because of logistics (and expense).

GTC was a cool little island (IMO) because while they obviously relied on tourism, it seemed different from Hope Town in that there was more of an actual “town” (New Plymouth) with a core group of locals, schools, three grocery stores, hardware stores, etc. I’m guessing some of the rich folks will rebuild, but I do worry about the locals who lived in the actual town.

That's a real worry. One of the cool things about the Mississippi golf coast before Katrina was that it was one of the last places where a normal middle class family could have beachfront property. When we moved back, in 2004, we looked at three full size beachfront homes, that were selling for 260,000 to 400,000. That's hard to imagine now. We ended up buying ocean access waterfront on Bay Saint Louis, for $242,000 and put another 80,000 into it.

Those days are gone. Huge million dollar plus homes are going up where those middle class beach homes used to be, or nothing at all is going up. The insurance is just too expensive for one. And, maybe that's the way it should be.

Whatever happens in the Abacos as far as rebuilding, it won't be the same as it was before. That I am sure of.

 

[Dougcole]

That's a real worry. One of the cool things about the Mississippi golf coast before Katrina was that it was one of the last places where a normal middle class family could have beachfront property. When we moved back, in 2004, we looked at three full size beachfront homes, that were selling for 260,000 to 400,000. That's hard to imagine now. We ended up buying ocean access waterfront on Bay Saint Louis, for $242,000 and put another 80,000 into it.

Those days are gone. Huge million dollar plus homes are going up where those middle class beach homes used to be, or nothing at all is going up. The insurance is just too expensive for one. And, maybe that's the way it should be.

Whatever happens in the Abacos as far as rebuilding, it won't be the same as it was before. That I am sure of.

This is what worries me as well. Have we lost GTC, only to have it replaced by another Bakers Bay or Hope Town Inn and Marina? What Americanized, cookie cutter business fills the spot left by Cap'n Jacks, or Pineapples or Miss Emily's?


I have the same concerns for Mexico Beach, another beach town with its own personality. Will it just be an extended Destin a few years from now?



While the financial loss of Baker's Bay may be quite significant, the cultural and historical loss is zero. It can be easily replaced. You can't say the same for Cracker P's.

 

[dhays]

The years go by and we celebrated every little thing that was the slightest return to normal. Every business reopening was exciting (most never came back). Now, 14 years later, half the town is still missing, slabs everywhere, but it kind of feels normal. That's as good as it gets, I think.

Thanks for the perspective. It points up the logistical problems when a community that has developed over generations is destroyed in days.

It reminds me of when Greensburg Kansas decided to rebuild after the 2007 tornado that destroyed it. I frankly didn’t expect them to rebuild the town. The reasons for that town to exist there, don’t exist anymore. There are little towns every 30 miles through that part of Kansas. That was dictated by the transportation infrastructure in the 1800s. Now, it seems the only reason for it to be there is simply because it was there. They rebuilt the town. Even so, after over 10 years the population of Greensburg is half of what it was before the tornado.

So what is to become of Abaco? 10 times the population of Greensburg but faced with the same level of destruction. However, Abaco is much more isolated and getting resources there will be much more expensive. Besides tourism, what economic forces will support Abaco into the future? Greensburg had wheat farming as the supporting industry. What will Abaco have?

 

[menzies]

It will be interesting to see if the central government plays a role in what is developed where. Right now all those lots are zoned residential, if they keep it that way then that would limit large resorts.

If they keep to the lot sizes, then that too would limit large homes in many places.

Problem is, if the current owners decide to move away and not rebuild - and by changing the zones and plots the government can at least get buildings there, they may be forced to do it.

 

[k9medic]

I wrote this on another forum -

This was the exact same conversation I had with my wife two days ago.

We are smack dab in the middle of buying a place on GTC. Our final paperwork was received on Wednesday of last week just before the storm. The sellers had theirs signed but had not sent it out so it is "still in hand."

My wife and I are still committed to purchasing, and rebuilding what we need to. We talked with the sellers yesterday and everybody is on the same page.

I have literally put my money where my mouth is and am here for the long haul.

GTC (and the Abacos) for us is not about the bars or the restaurants. It's about the relationships that you have with the people around you, both local and visitors and the commitment to something stronger.

 

[menzies]

K9, how will you and the sellers handle insurance and the new value of the building after insurance taken into account?

 

[Bigsfish]

Just a stupid question but how many Atlantis resorts do you think the Abacos could support? Nassau is having problems supporting one. Just wondering and while I enjoy the Abacos I much prefer the Exumas.

 

[menzies]

Just a stupid question but how many Atlantis resorts do you think the Abacos could support? Nassau is having problems supporting one. Just wondering and while I enjoy the Abacos I much prefer the Exumas.

I'm not sure it could support one Atlantis.

Resorts like Sandals, another few Bakers Bay multi-millionaire golf and boating communities, is what would likely happen.

 

[k9medic]

K9, how will you and the sellers handle insurance and the new value of the building after insurance taken into account?

Not sure. Once I get my feet on the ground over there I can make an assessment and move forward.

 

[menzies]

Not sure. Once I get my feet on the ground over there I can make an assessment and move forward.

Good luck. Did they give you any indication of extent of damage? Where exactly on GTC are you buying?

We had been scoping out both Hope Town and Treasure, looking for one with a dock, or where a deep water dock could be built. We didn't want to be north of Whale Cay Channel.

In six months or so, if you go forward, I would be interested in knowing some details re insurance etc. especially after this.

 

[dhays]

GTC (and the Abacos) for us is not about the bars or the restaurants. It's about the relationships that you have with the people around you, both local and visitors and the commitment to something stronger.

Understandable and admirable. My question would be how many of those folks that you have that relationship will still be around?

 

[k9medic]

Understandable and admirable. My question would be how many of those folks that you have that relationship will still be around?

That's a great question. Unlike some other areas, GTC is and always will be home for them. These are the people that I have come to know and love. These people will be there forever and the new friends who come along will be cut from the same cloth.

It reminds me of a quote from the movie Castaway -

" Now I know what I have to do now. I gotta keep breathing because tomorrow the sun will rise. Who knows what the tide could bring?

That's what these folks do.

@menzies, I'm up on the north end off Coco Bay. No idea the extent of the damages right now to the house. I have some folks who will let me know if due time though if I can't get over next week.

 

[mod45]

I think (hope) it's unlikely a big resort will come to the Abacos. Unlike buying an undeveloped island, you'd have to assemble dozens of parcels, many from families who have owned them for a long time. They'd need to build or buy a marina and perhaps an airstrip. You might end up with something small like Chub Cay, which I think is well run.

I worry about the rebuilding efforts. Everything takes 2-3x longer than you'd expect so maybe 5-ish years. Then you have a chicken/egg problem. If locals move away due to the destruction, will people even want to rebuild homes that aren't surrounded by charming bars/restaurants/stores and friendly locals? I think that's what most people loved about the Abacos, you could get away but still socialize at some unique bars and restaurants. I guess there's an ideal scenario where second home owners choose to rebuild stronger homes and that creates lots of jobs. But seeing the sheer destruction of the local Bahamian homes, it's hard for me to imagine anyone staying to provide the labor. Plus the supply hub, Marsh Harbour, was hit especially hard. If that central link takes longer to get rebuilt, it slows down the other areas.

We'd toyed with buying a home over there. I talked to someone who built one and they swore they wouldn't do it again. Insisted it was easier to have a nice boat, leave it docked and run from the storms.

 

[menzies]

@menzies, I'm up on the north end off Coco Bay. No idea the extent of the damages right now to the house. I have some folks who will let me know if due time though if I can't get over next week.

- don't know if it was still there - this is from 2003!

 

[cardude01]

I talked to someone who built one and they swore they wouldn't do it again. Insisted it was easier to have a nice boat, leave it docked and run from the storms.

Yeah that’s what I tried to do. There are a few problems with leaving it docked and running away I found out. [emoji30]

 

[Comodave]

Yeah that’s what I tried to do. There are a few problems with leaving it docked and running away I found out. [emoji30]

Did I miss the post about how your boat faired? Or have you heard?

 

[k9medic]

Did I miss the post about how your boat faired? Or have you heard?

Not my photo to share, but I'll say this.

 

[bluebyu]

Post 53:

See other thread on Dorian, Cardude's boat is on Page 28, Post 546
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/dorian-aims-east-coast-florida-46326-28.html

 

[soin2la]

I sense they would say "I'll be damned if I leave here - where my great, great grandfather from England, or from Charleston, set his roots."

Though I'm sad for everyone, it is these folks, who go back generations particularly in Hopetown, that I feel for.
The Bethels of Harbour View, Vernon and the Gales of Island Marine, among others. They, at times, held Elbo Key together, thrived and suffered.

I somehow just can't see Willard Bethel being even remotely happy, anywhere else.

 

[menzies]

Though I'm sad for everyone, it is these folks, who go back generations particularly in Hopetown, that I feel for.
The Bethels of Harbour View, Vernon and the Gales of Island Marine, among others. They, at times, held Elbo Key together, thrived and suffered.

I somehow just can't see Willard Bethel being even remotely happy, anywhere else.

Those of us who have been visiting Abaco for the past couple of decades understand these nuances - even between the cays (Man-o-War/Hope Town/GTC etc.).

So I do see Hope Town and Man-o-War as rebuilding (can you imagine an Albury Brothers boat not being built there?), and perhaps a couple of others. The other centers, such as Marsh, Guyana, Coopers, I am not so sure.

 

[Fletcher500]

I only had the opportunity to visit there once in the 70’s. I recall beautiful, clear water and friendly people. After reading this thread, I also did a refresher about the history of the Bahamas last night, including the colonial years. A complex one for sure. It’s very sad to see the destruction from this storm and human condition on the news channels. Relief funds over the next few years will be key. The company I work for will be doing a 2X match on any charitable contributions for our employees. It’s a start, anything helps.

 

[BandB]

Right now the emphasis is twofold. Humanitarian aid for those there and search and rescue to find the hundreds of missing persons and the bodies of the additional dead. Where we can all help is in the humanitarian aid and it's gratifying to see so many groups moving to provide aid. I see a tremendous amount from the boating community and from South Florida. I don't expect anything from the US Government and that is not meant to stimulate conversation of whether they should help or not, just a statement I don't expect help.

I'm referring to rebuilding help in the above comment. Our CG is clearly doing a tremendous job in assisting today and leading the medical evacuation efforts plus helping get supplies in. They deserve tremendous praise for their efforts. This is them at their best.

 

[Bigsfish]

FEMA is also their with supplies and helping with distribution. The US will do much to help rebuild, what country do you think will do more? Americans are generous to help and our government is proving that. As you said the CG is doing yeoman's work.